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Double Domination: Germany versus Japan

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safferli said:
You could edit the savegame to give Japan and all its PUs a very high trust (both ways, trust is bi-directional), to guarantee an inheritance next king.
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Good tip. However, as that would be cheating, I wonder if the readers would appreciate that? Also, I wonder what (if anything) I have done wrong. I don't see why Japan should have low trust, as I haven't done anything to lower it.

Tallfellow said:
I know that Germany is a great deal ahead, just playing it down a bit... I'm a dane, we do that in Denmark :p
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Aah, a bit like British understatement, right? Forgive my ignorance, then.

Duke of Britain said:
Make a decision that only Japan leading PU over Manchu can enact...it would make Japan inherit everything (or at least some) :p
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I'm not sure what you mean here, Duke of Britain. You mean inheritance by decision? I didn't know that was possible.
 
Inheritance by decision is certainly possible. This is a simple decision I wrote when manipulating a savegame of mine.

Code: 
country_decisions = {

	anglo_nordic = {
		potential = {
			tag = SCA
			exists = GBR
		}
		allow = { war = no }
	  effect = {
			british_isles = { add_core = SCA }
			ireland = { 
				add_core = SCA
				remove_core_from = GBR
			}
			NOR = { remove_core = 369 }	# Orkney
			inherit = GBR
			prestige = 0.25
			infamy = 5
		}
		ai_will_do = {
			factor = 0
		}
	}
}
 
I'd say that at least Ming should be inherited -- Japan badly needs the boost. And I wouldn't call it cheating, it's more like a rebalancing like you did a while back with the extra turn for Japan and some other goodies.
 
How about this: both Germany and Japan will inherit all their subjects in 1720, forcing them to deal with the massive overextension until the very start of the Final Battle (1770), in which I take the weakest country (probably Japan) and if they are equally strong (doubtfull), I take Germany.

This way, we are guaranteed a massive end battle without loose ends. However, one could argue that this edit is heavyhanded and, well, just plain cheating. If people think that this mass-inheritance is too much, please say so and propose another solution.
 
Seems fine to me, though it's somewhat less fair to Japan since they would get cores on China via normal inheritances. However, they have a lot more PU'd territory so they benefit more on that front.
 
I would recommend playing Japan in the final fight. I would also suggest seeding Japanese cores in Ming/Manchu etc. for when they inherit them, to strengthen their hand.
 
Rabid said:
Seems fine to me, though it's somewhat less fair to Japan since they would get cores on China via normal inheritances. However, they have a lot more PU'd territory so they benefit more on that front.
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I assumed that an inheritance-by-decision would work the same like an ordinary inheritance and thus would provide cores on same-culture group provinces.

Arakhor said:
I would recommend playing Japan in the final fight. I would also suggest seeding Japanese cores in Ming/Manchu etc. for when they inherit them, to strengthen their hand.
Click to expand...
If the decision does indeed not give cores, I agree with your suggestion.

Jstebby said:
Put in the special decision just for Manchu, and maybe give a little historical background to the integration.
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What historical background? The whole AAR was utterly ahistorical from the start.
 
Omen said:
Then how about story consistent background. : ) The ref did it.
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Oh, of course I'll do that.

I've implemented Japan's inheritance decisions for each of its PUs and here's the deal. No cores are given for same-culture group provinces (ouch!).
Compared to Germany's yearly income of 10.500, Japan income with

  • Manchu inherited is 8.000,
  • Manchu + Wu + Xia inherited is 8.500,
  • All PUs inherited is 9.900,

So with all inheritances, Japan will be the equal to Germany in economy (altough Japan will have a bit more manpower and limits) if Germany doesn't inherit its PUs.
 
Perhaps you could make Japan inherit everything they have a PU on and give them cores for same culture group, and do the exact opposite for Germany - change PU's into vassals (which won't be diploanexed due to their size). This would weaken Germany enough to play with them during Armageddon - providing an epic climax to the game and a high-tech Asian challenge.
 
Actually, I think Japan should inherit with cores. That's the only thing Japan has as an advantage: cores and full buildings for China. Otherwise, it'll never be able to compete with Germany+France+Spain.

Also, if Japan gets cores, it'll probably not get overextension. Once you sit on a ton of cores, it's pretty difficult to get 50% uncored provinces ;)
 
Memento Mori said:
Perhaps you could make Japan inherit everything they have a PU on and give them cores for same culture group, and do the exact opposite for Germany - change PU's into vassals (which won't be diploanexed due to their size). This would weaken Germany enough to play with them during Armageddon - providing an epic climax to the game and a high-tech Asian challenge.
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Hey, that's quite a nice idea! Germany on its own might find the whole of Asia a challenge. Germany's vassals should stay outside the war, I think, as otherwise Germany's alliance would probably be too strong.

safferli said:
Actually, I think Japan should inherit with cores. That's the only thing Japan has as an advantage: cores and full buildings for China. Otherwise, it'll never be able to compete with Germany+France+Spain.

Also, if Japan gets cores, it'll probably not get overextension. Once you sit on a ton of cores, it's pretty difficult to get 50% uncored provinces ;)
Click to expand...

I've tested with getting cores on the region "Ming China". With Manchu integrated, Japan's yearly income is 9.100. With Manchu, Xia and Wu integrated, income is 10.000. With all PU's integrated, income is 11.000 and no overextension: in fact, only a third of provinces is then uncored!

I'm thinking that Japan, inheriting all PUs with cores on Ming China region and Germany with its PUs converted to vassals and them staying out of the war would be at least an equal fight. If Japan manages to conquer some territory through Imperialism, all the better. This way, we can still salvage an high-tech Asia war!

*EDIT* By the way, if Germany would inherit all its PUs, its income would be 16.000.
 
knul said:
*EDIT* By the way, if Germany would inherit all its PUs, its income would be 16.000.
Click to expand...

I thought as much -- Europe is fantastically rich, something that is often overlooked.

The "Japan inherits with cores and Germany vassalises" seems like a good compromise. Plus, you'll have the fun playing Germany with vassal horde troops fighting in Asia! :)
 
That was why I was initially disappointed that Germany was forming PUs in Europe, as I thought that that would disrupt the balance. Having non-allied vassals would certainly make overall balance easier to achieve.
 
safferli said:
I thought as much -- Europe is fantastically rich, something that is often overlooked.

The "Japan inherits with cores and Germany vassalises" seems like a good compromise. Plus, you'll have the fun playing Germany with vassal horde troops fighting in Asia! :)
Click to expand...
Indeed, Europe is very powerful. Even a Westernised, united Asia with all its yummy trade goods can't compete with that.

I think that having Germany's vassals fight in the war would be too overpowering. Germany basically already has a nice advantage that its vassals' territory doesn't need garrisons.

Arakhor said:
That was why I was initially disappointed that Germany was forming PUs in Europe, as I thought that that would disrupt the balance. Having non-allied vassals would certainly make overall balance easier to achieve.
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I see your point. However, my idea was to make both nations as powerful as possible so that the Final Battle would be as epic as possible.

What this AAR shows is how badly I underestimated the vast power of Germany. Even with complete Decentralisation (and missing some nice Decisions because of that), with a harsh unification event (+30 infamy is IMO quite something), with bad permanent modifiers (-2 magistrates & +0,5 infamy per year) and all the house rules, Germany is still a juggernaut. It's like a zombie: you can shoot at it all you want but it's still walking. Also, I overestimated the success of Japan or rather underestimated how debilitating it is to only control a country for half the time. In particular, the Westernisation process for Japan was very painful.

So even with the continuous introduction of new rules and limitations on Germany, I basically failed to balance Germany and Japan. Even looking back, I'm still not sure what I could have done better without crippling Germany of making it boring to play.
 
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I think the Germany decisions needs to be changed to give +1 tax to one (not all) provinces...

Also, you could have given the Japanese an extra "gameplay" turn, making Westernisation easier. The AI simply cannot and will not force this.

But all in all, this is very enjoyable, and with the new houserules I think you're well-put for a nice high-tech land war in asia! :)
 
I'd say you wait for the inheritance-by-decision until your second to last turn is up, so you can build up and solidify in the last turn.
As for Germany: Should they inherit, the big nations should be released as vassals to make it at least as bit harder.
 
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