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Turn 2: the Bavarian Beast


Jim: Welcome back, dear viewers, to the second round of Double Domination: Germany versus Japan. With me is Bob. Good to see you, Bob.

Bob: Likewise, Jim.

Jim: Looks like the Japanese team is going for an agressive start again.

Bob: Indeed Jim. While in their absence the Taira Daimyo has secured an alliance with Fujiwara, this alliance is instantly shattered when Taira declares war on Minamoto in 1420. Fujiwara joins its ally Minamoto instead of Taira and Tachibana honours its guarantee on Minamoto.

Jim: Seems that the Japanese team wants those cores on Minamoto right away.

Bob: Taira now faces an allied army almost twice as large as theirs. The Japanese team again goes for their tried strategy of first finishing off Fujiwara and then turn southward. Ohh, bit of a setback there, the Taira Daimyoi is killed in combat. Doesn't stop the Japanese team, as they conquer the Fujiwara capital and force a white peace out of it in 1421.

Jim: After annihilating Fujiwara's army, I might add.

Bob: Correct, Jim. The overall military strategy of the Japanese team is to wipe out the main armies of their enemies and then split up their forces for sieging. However, the Taira navy isn't that strong, which probably is the reason they give 25 ducats to tachibana for peace. As the agressor, Taira loses 20 Legitimacy by this, quite a setback.

Jim: But a necessary one nonetheless. At the end of 1422, Taira has control over most of Minamoto's territory and can force a nice peace: Harima and Tanba are gained, as you can see on this image.

1422-12afterthewar.png


Bob: After this victory, things quiet down at the Japanese isles. The participants are strengthening the new Daimyo's rule, making Taira more Centralized. They also get a new mission from the referee:

1422-01impossiblemission.png


Jim: Umm, Bob, isn't that mission quite impossible to fullfil?

Bob: I'm afraid you're right, Jim, but the referee won't budge, even after numerous complains from the Japanese team, sponsors, the IDDA and even the German team! Guess the Japanese team has to live with it!

Jim: Ridiculous. I normally fully support referee decisions but this is just unfair.

Bob: In the years 1423-1430, the Japanese team builds up is economy. In 1425 Land 4 is reached and armories are being built. In 1428 Production 4 is obtained, giving access to the always welcome Constables. Furthermore, the assasination of nobles offers the Japanese team a chace to empower the merchant class, moving Taira towards a more Plutocratic kind of rule.

1427-01assasinationofnoble.png


Jim: All with all, a solid but not overwhelming turn by the Japanese team.

Bob: True, but Taira has now been established to be the main power in Japan and even beyond: take a look at these statistics gathered by the IDDA officials.

1430-01Tairanatstats.png


Taira has now the second largest economy in East Asia, with only Ming being bigger. Inflation is high, though. The Japanese team has to watch that if they want to have a sound economy.

Jim: Germany is now inserted into the alternative timeline, to the year 1430. Let's punch up a satellite image.


1430-02bavariabefore.png


Interesting...Austria has lost a lot of territory, in particular to newly formed nations Styria and Tirol. An other interesting political change is that Bavaria is no longer allied with Hungary but instead is now allied with Brandenburg.

Bob: Some good changes for the German team.

Jim: Certainly, Bob. And the German team makes use of this immediately by declaring a War of Reconquest of Konstanz on Wurtemburg.

Bob: Both teams sure love declaring war the moment they arive, don't they?

Jim: Yup. Anyway, a quite mighty alliance is formed on Wurtemburg's side: Austria, Switzerland, Alsace, Hainaut, Modena and Ulm join, with Switzerland leading. On Bavaria's side only Brandenburg and the Palatinate join.

Bob: If I may interrupt, I want to point out that while this might give the audience the impression that the German team has a difficult fight ahead, the Bavarian alliance has 40 regiments on it side, while the Swiss alliance only has 24 regiments. Also, remember that Bavaria has Military Drill, making its troops very deadly.

Jim: Thank you Bob, for clearing that up. Besides, Austria has been badly mangled by Bohemia before and still has a high war exhaustion. So it comes to no surprise that in September Ulm is vassalized by Bavaria and in October Wurtemburg cedes Konstanz and is vassalized itself. Also, a 5 regiment Swiss army and a 4 regiment Alsacian army are annihilated.

Bob: Painful.

Jim: And the pain continues in 1431. After a couple of harsh defeats for the Austrian army in Linz, in April Austria cedes Linz to Bavaria. Another 4 Swiss regiments are wiped out. Due to the Palatinate's support, Alsace is vassalized. At the end of the year Switzerland concedes defeat, ending a very succesful war.

Bob: Unfortunetaly, for the German team, in their absence the Bavarian king has increased his hold on the country, so that the country is no longer fully Decentralized. The German team is thus forced to again use up their political influence to empower the local elite, increasing Decentralization.

Jim: The political experts on the German team are quite busy indeed. As the serfs become upset, the German team uses this upheaval to force the nobility to give their serfs even more rights. According to the Brockenheim scale, this means that Bavaria moves a bit towards the Free Subjects end of the Freedom scale.

Bob: Looks like the German team goes for a free Germany.

Jim: Hang on, I'm getting reports on the spionage activity of Team Germany. Hmmm, seems that they want to push a Personal Union on Saxony.

Bob: Makes sense. Leipzig is one of the required provinces to form the German nation and Saxony is an Elector.

Jim: They send spies to fabricate claims on Saxony, once....twice...three times....four times witout success! With each of these missions costing 100 ducats, that's a lot of wealth going down the drain!

Bob: Our analysts estimate that each mission's success chance was about 65%. I can imagine the frustration of the German team, as the odds of this unlucky streak is about 1.5%.

Jim: Harsh. But wait, it seems the fortunes are changing. Yes! In 1436, after four years Bavaria has finally managed to cook up a convincing claim on the Saxon throne.

Bob: But isn't Saxony allied with Brandenburg?

Jim: Apparantly the German team is willing to give up on that alliance, as they do declare war on Saxony!

1436-02waronSaxony.png


The Palatinate once again joins on Bavaria's side, but on Saxony's side Thuringen, Hesse and Brandenburg join. Let's take a look on the alliance overview.

1436-02waroverview.png


Bavaria has only a slight disadvantage in troop numbers, while having stronger troops due to Military Drill. This should be interesting.

Bob: I see that the German team favours assaults...Thuringen's provinces are taken in just two months. But wait...Thuringen is annexed by Bavaria!

Jim: Risky. As Bavaria has no cores on Thuringen, the HRE no doubt will interfere at some point. But I can understand this move to an extend: both provinces are needed to form Germany and apparantly the German team annexed Thuringen in order to get those cores as quickly as possible.

Bob: And now they have Leipzig. But the war still continues...

Jim: The Bavarian troops move north, intercept the Brandenburgian troops, and annihilate them! Only Hesse has troops left and these are locked in combat with the Palatinatian army.

Bob: The lack of opposing troops makes it possible to spread out forces. All four Brandenburgian provinces are now sieged simultanously.

Jim: And it works, Bob. In 1437 Brandenburg is vassalized!

Bob: Oh dear, that won't help with keeping infamy down. But vassalizing an Elector is indeed very much worth it.

Jim: With only Hesse left as active opposition, the war is concluded quickly. Hesse is vassalized in 1438 and Saxony is put into a union with Bavaria. The German team has now four electors under control!

Bob: Too bad for them, it won't help them in the short term, as because of the extremely high infamy of Bavaria, even its own vassals won't vote for it!

1436-06HRE.png


What's worse is that the Emperor Bohemia now formally requests Bavaria to surrender its illegal provinces.

1438-08formalrequest.png


Jim: I would doubt that the German team hasn't forseen this and took this into account. At any rate, they deny the request. The high infamy of the Bavarian king causes the peasants to protest. Again, the German team grabs this opportunity to reduce serfdom and make the Bavarian people more free.

1438-10peasantprotests.png


Bob: And with that the German turn is nearly over, with the German team waiting for the infamy to drop...

Jim: Wait Bob, seems the German team isn't finishd yet...they send a spy to Lüneburg to forge a claim...and it's succesful! But it's March 1439, only nine months until they have to leave. Do they dare...?

1439-03dowonLuneburg.png


Jim: Yes! Those crazy Germans are going for it!

Bob: The Hansa and the Elector Cologne join Lüneburg, but they are too weak to pose a threat to Bavaria.

Jim: Bavaria gains control over Lüneburg, will they make peace...no, they go southward and assault Cologne! And they vassalize Cologne! Bavaria has now five, I repeat five elector under control! In June Bavaria forms an Union with Lüneburg, ending the war.

The German supporters here in the studio are going crazy! This turn was an amazing victory for the German team! They gained four provinces, six vassals and two Unions!

Bob: While they pay their victory with an extremely high infamy and at a large monetary cost, I must agree that the performance of the German team in this turn was impressive. Let's take a look at the current Bavarian empire:

1439-11Bavarianempire.png


Jim: Bavaria is well on its way to form Germany. Only Brunswick, Mecklenburg, Altmark and Anhalt are not yet under Bavarian control. The Japanese team has to do very well in the next turn if they want to stay ahead.

With that, this very exciting turn has ended and we must bid you adieu. Until next time!
 
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Cool concept, fun style, an all-around great AAR. I'll be reading! :)
Thanks, Nuarq.

looking forward for turn 2 :)
Well, here it is!

Loving the idea, personally it frightens me a little, letting the AI take control at all.
But for an AAR it's great, adds some unexcpected twists and excitement.

I'd say Bavaria did better, brilliant elector grabs.
But I'm generally not very fond of the HRE, and Taira is my favorite of the Japanese factions.
So... GO TAIRA!
Taira shirts can be bought in the lobby. I do agree, it's a bit frightening to let the AI control my nations, but indeed can (I hope?) lead to funny situations. We'll see!

The concept and delivery are awesome, but what worries me is that no matter how well will you play, AI will just come and use up those 10 years to screw things up, and it won't be mojo. At least for you, because watching you trying to fight against pc on so many levels will probably make for a great AAR. You can always present it as glitches in the time machine, y'know...
So yeah, awaiting next update.
Naah, you're to negative on the A.I. While the AI isn't a genius, I trust it not to screw my nations in just ten years. At worse I expect the AI to go against my strategy, f.e. moving the National focus when I don't want to, selecting irreversible Decisions I don't want to, etcetera.
 
Woah, if their risk pays off and the AI doesn't screw things over, Germany is going to get a massive lead. I feel like I'm starting to root for them for their bold tactics.
 
Germany has stolen my heart with their crazy-going-for-it antics! An amazing round for Germany! I wonder though, with a negative stability, high infamy and the Emperor's hatred how they will fare in the interregnum. Will the vassals automatically offer alliances? I'm not sure is high infamy will prevent that.
 
Bavarian Beast indeed! Personally, I'm rooting for Taira, just because they seem to be the underdogs. I'm waiting to see if Bohemia lays into Bavaria in the next round.

Btw, is it not possible for the Japanese daimos to follow the same tactics of vassalization/pu? Or are you just trying something different?
 
Very nice. I see that you also cannot hold back when vasalizing electors :D

And the sick, unfair misson for Taira...
 
Well played Bavaria.
Reminds me of when I was new and playing as Austria for the first time.
Also happened to be the game when I learnt about infamy... the hard way.
 
Woah, if their risk pays off and the AI doesn't screw things over, Germany is going to get a massive lead. I feel like I'm starting to root for them for their bold tactics.
Indeed, Bavaria is now well ahead of Taira in political gains. However, Taira's economy is doing a bit better and has about the same army size, so things aren't that hopeless for Taira. Besides, Bavaria has had a massive amount of luck so far (four cores, Lüneburg's forge claims mission working in one try, all those electors joining wars against me), so if Bavaria's luck runs out, Taira might take the lead once again.

Germany has stolen my heart with their crazy-going-for-it antics! An amazing round for Germany! I wonder though, with a negative stability, high infamy and the Emperor's hatred how they will fare in the interregnum. Will the vassals automatically offer alliances? I'm not sure is high infamy will prevent that.
Not sure, actually. But as long as Karl I doesn't do stupid things, Bavaria won't go over the infamy limit. But I admit, it's a bit risky overall.

Bavarian Beast indeed! Personally, I'm rooting for Taira, just because they seem to be the underdogs. I'm waiting to see if Bohemia lays into Bavaria in the next round.

Btw, is it not possible for the Japanese daimos to follow the same tactics of vassalization/pu? Or are you just trying something different?
For your information, this is the first time I force PUs. I really haven't used that tactic before in my games, so it's very likely I'm not using PUs optimally. Also, with Bavaria it's critical to get cores: to prevent formal requests and to speed up the forming of Germany. Forming Japan doesn't require cores, so IMO it's not that critical to get PU's. Also, with so many targets it's much easier for Bavaria to forge a claim somewhere. I was able to do so fo 2 out of 8 desirable targets (those nations that hold required provinces for forming Germany). With Taira I only have 3 options. So far all the Daimyos have had no Legitimacy/heir problems, preventing me from forming a PU.

I will if it's possible, but again, for Taira getting a PU isn't that necessary.

Can we please have a photo of Bob and Jim?
Sure.

interviewsmall.gif


Basically these two were the source for the names as well as one of the inspiration sources for the whole AAR idea.

Very nice. I see that you also cannot hold back when vasalizing electors :D

And the sick, unfair misson for Taira...

The referee should be ashamed. And vassalizing electors is good for you! I just hope they side with me before the current Emperor dies.
 
Bavaria had an excellent turn! :eek: I do have a feeling that you're going to have the AI centralize Bavaria several times in the future, forcing you to spend your policy movements decentralizing the nation.
 
Bavaria had an excellent turn! :eek: I do have a feeling that you're going to have the AI centralize Bavaria several times in the future, forcing you to spend your policy movements decentralizing the nation.

That may actually be a good thing; IIRC decentralisation moves have an event tied to them that increases base tax.
 
Although I never seen an AAR where the player plays two countries in competition with each other and this idea was original to me, it doesn't surprise me that much that I am not the first to think of it. No matter, I was not aiming to win a price for most original AAR.

I think you'll find it as enjoyable if not more enjoyable than playing one country. If you've chosen your countries and their goal carefully you'll find them a challenge even toward the end of the game which usually isn't the situation when playing only one country. I usually played three countries just so that the AI could have a real good chance at screwing things up by the time I came back. :D Good luck!
 
The referee is having a shocker! Not only did he give Taira an impossible mission, but he also failed to notice that Bavaria broke the rules by vassalising a non-adjacent nation! Tut tut!

(Not that it will make any different long term, since Germany will be unified long before Japan come into contact with them.)

On a more serious note, I think the Bavarian tactic of pushing up close to the infamy limit is a good one. That way, the AI is less likely to accumulate infamy on useless acquisitions, and you'll be working off infamy when you aren't playing, rather than when you are.
 
I OBJECT! This jury has given Taira a mission that it CANNOT fulfill! This is an outrageous display of partiality and I demand the Taira mission is changed!


(great idea, but AI bavaria will ruin their gains, I fear. Very interested in the next round. This can also be a good study of how the AI will behave itself in certain situations)
 
Very nice AAR, will follow. Probably rooting for Taira, as the underdog and cause I don't like Bavarians :D

How could you fail to like us? We're all so lovable, and our version of the German language is adorable! Unfathomable perhaps, but still adorable!
 
Poor Taira, not only did they have a bad start (in comparison with Bavaria), a impossible mission, high inflation and a dead Daimyoi. They also have to deal with Ming and Westernise.

I just hope they will have a fair chance against Germany in the end
 
Bavaria had an excellent turn! :eek: I do have a feeling that you're going to have the AI centralize Bavaria several times in the future, forcing you to spend your policy movements decentralizing the nation.
That may actually be a good thing; IIRC decentralisation moves have an event tied to them that increases base tax.
I'm starting to fear that as well. If the game becomes a ping-pong between the AI Centralizing and me Decentralizing, I'll probably going to mod something in to solve the problem. The intend of the rule is that Bavaria/Germany must be fully Decentralized, not that it never gets the chance to change the other sliders.

I think you'll find it as enjoyable if not more enjoyable than playing one country. If you've chosen your countries and their goal carefully you'll find them a challenge even toward the end of the game which usually isn't the situation when playing only one country. I usually played three countries just so that the AI could have a real good chance at screwing things up by the time I came back. :D Good luck!
Good to see that someone has some experience with this approach. I am worried that the AI will screw around with the National focus and that I need to reorganize the armies every time I switch back, leading to frustration. Did you experience that?

Very nice AAR, will follow. Probably rooting for Taira, as the underdog and cause I don't like Bavarians :D
DOn't worry, it seems that it won't be long before Bavaria does not exist anymore. :p

The referee is having a shocker! Not only did he give Taira an impossible mission, but he also failed to notice that Bavaria broke the rules by vassalising a non-adjacent nation! Tut tut!

(Not that it will make any different long term, since Germany will be unified long before Japan come into contact with them.)
Well spotted! I completely forgot about that rule. But indeed, the spitit of the rule hasn't been violated. You see, the intent of the rule is to prevent both nations from easily stopping each other's expansion. Otherwise Japan f.e. could say "Ohh, Germany wants to expand northwards, eh? Okay, I'll just guarantee Denmark, Norway and Sweden!".

The rule should be rather that alliances, vassalization and guaranteeing is only allowed on neighbouring nations on other continents. As Bavaria and Taire do not even now about each other's continent, the rule is not really in effect right now.

On a more serious note, I think the Bavarian tactic of pushing up close to the infamy limit is a good one. That way, the AI is less likely to accumulate infamy on useless acquisitions, and you'll be working off infamy when you aren't playing, rather than when you are.
That's one of the reasons why I play normal. In my testgames on Very Hard it happened that the AI would expand to its infamy limit and when I took over, the infamy was way over mine!

By the way, while Taira isn't racking up infamy like crazy, it also uses its "time on the bench" to burn off infamy.

haha a bloodbowl fan ey? Do you play on fumbbl :D
No, I got introduced to the game via the video game.

I OBJECT! This jury has given Taira a mission that it CANNOT fulfill! This is an outrageous display of partiality and I demand the Taira mission is changed!


(great idea, but AI bavaria will ruin their gains, I fear. Very interested in the next round. This can also be a good study of how the AI will behave itself in certain situations)
I will talk with the referee about changing the mission. I do worry a bit that Bavaria will get into trouble, but not too much. And if they do, it will only make the game more interesting.

How could you fail to like us? We're all so lovable, and our version of the German language is adorable! Unfathomable perhaps, but still adorable!

Poor Taira, not only did they have a bad start (in comparison with Bavaria), a impossible mission, high inflation and a dead Daimyoi. They also have to deal with Ming and Westernise.

I just hope they will have a fair chance against Germany in the end
Well, Bavaria has an even higher inflation (8%!), Taira has a higher income (~250 versus ~230) and a new Daimyo. Also, Bavaria has as mission the conquest of Pfalz, which is under control of vassal the Palatinate. So while not impossible, it's not that hot a mission either.

I do indeed hope that the handicaps for Germany are severe enough. If not, I can always introduce some more.
 
Maybe this is something I don't understand about DW, but since Japan is an OPM, why couldn't you vassalize them? Is it some special mechanic?