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Thread: Double Domination: Germany versus Japan

  1. #181
    Ouch. Big gains for Germany, and big problems for Japan.

    Oh well. I'm still rooting for Dai Nippon! Banzai!

  2. #182
    General knul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen View Post
    Ouch. One hard blow after another for the Japanese team.
    Actually, Japan didn't do that badly: a Westernisation step and getting a 7-province nation into a Union is nothing to be ashamed of. Especially as most of the decade was played with negative stability, leading to quite some rebels.

    The loss of the two useless provinces in the south is IMO a good thing and I wasn't happy that the AI got them. At this point, having low-tolerance provinces that require diversion of the armies to defend it and whose trade I cannot take is not a good thing.

    So all it all, not a bad turn. Of course it could have been an amazing turn if I had put Ming into a Union, but still.


    Quote Originally Posted by TonyJoe View Post
    Whenever I read this I always picture Jim McKay and Joe Garagiola as the commentators (in their 70's prime, of course). I guess Joe would have to be Bob, though.
    Never heard of the guys, but they look like enthusiastic, passionate commentators, so they would be a bit like Jim and Bob.

    Quote Originally Posted by Memento Mori View Post
    Looking at the war with Ming which ended without much success and the multitude of revolts which plagued Japan later, the heir was right to try to dispose the ruler. I guess the old man thought that if he can unite Japan (if I am not mistaken it was the same emperor) he can also unite China with Japan. On the other hand, if they don't deal with Ming fast enough, Germany might just colonise the Hordes and get there first. Well, a shame on the contestants for making a 4 military emperor go to war with the biggest country on Earth.
    Not much success? Well, the war with Ming ended with a resounding Japanese victory of 50% warscore and forcing the largest Asian nation to convert. It's just not the overwhelming victory that might have been, but honestly I went into that war without too many expectations.

    The current Emperor, Masahito, is not the first Emperor of Japan, that was Koretada I. As for Germany colonising the Hordes, if you look closely, the Hordes are all but extinct, in the west eaten by Poland and Novgorod and in the east by Manchu and Ming. By the time Germany is ready to expand into the steppes, the nomads will long be gone.
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  3. #183
    I see what you mean. Japan converted Ming, and gained provinces it wanted, losing only dead weight. The rebels and not getting everything they wanted made me view the Japanese team as being hit hard, though. Also, the heir is . . . a painful blow. Delaying Westernization is bad.

    As for Germany, wow. The German team is going from strength to strength. Gaining german provinces and taking on all comers. However, Spanish Hungary and France will likely be more of a challenge than Poland was.

    Knul, your updates are a ton of fun, hopefully you're having as much fun playing the game and writing the updates as I am reading them and cheering for German victory.

  4. #184
    General knul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen View Post
    I see what you mean. Japan converted Ming, and gained provinces it wanted, losing only dead weight. The rebels and not getting everything they wanted made me view the Japanese team as being hit hard, though. Also, the heir is . . . a painful blow. Delaying Westernization is bad.
    You see that correctly. The great setback of this turn is the Westernization delay. The rest is peanuts compared to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omen View Post
    As for Germany, wow. The German team is going from strength to strength. Gaining german provinces and taking on all comers. However, Spanish Hungary and France will likely be more of a challenge than Poland was. .
    Certainly. Also, at some point Germany runs out of cores to conquer and will then have much more trouble to expand. Japan on the other hand will only get it easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omen View Post
    Knul, your updates are a ton of fun, hopefully you're having as much fun playing the game and writing the updates as I am reading them and cheering for German victory.
    I'm certainly having fun playing the campaign. Playing two nations in turns is a completely new and fresh and it has way less irritating things than I expected. The war with Ming was particulary fun. As the rebel armies come from the fog and disappearing into it, I never had a good idea how many troops they had (there's no ledger page for rebel troops ). Imagine my shock seeing 50+ regiments marching towards me!

    Don't worry about me, I'm having fun with the game and with writing the updates. It's very nice to hear that you also have fun with it, Omen!
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  5. #185
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    Another couple of excellent updates

    Good to see that both nations are doing better Too bad Japan didn't get Ming into a PU, that would have helped things along nicely in Asia if you had succeeded

    And Germany is doing good for now, taking back cores always helps ofcourse, but when you're done with that you'll have to start in on BBB and Spain, which should be harder nuts to crack.
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  6. #186
    General knul's Avatar
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    Turn 10, first half: Don't listen to Sicilians


    Jim: We are now at the half way point towards the Final Battle: 9 of the 18 turns have been played and the tenth turn is about to start.

    Bob: Japan really needs to speed up, as Germany continues to expand both its military and its economy.

    Jim: I can't disagree with you there, Bob. Germany is now clearly in the lead. However, Japan is improving. For example, it just got its second National Idea, National Conscripts. Guess the manpower problem in the war with Ming has scared the government into adopting conscription.



    Bob: Hmmm, they could have made a better choice, too bad with the whole Westernisation process going on, stability is fragile as it is, so I expect no changes in Ideas.

    Jim: Also, Kunitada I has become Emperor. Sadly, no inheritance of Wu and as Kunitada is a terrible administrator, no Westernisation for the foreseeable future.

    Bob: At least we start the turn with another war with Bihar, in an alliance led by Great Britain!

    Jim: A walkover in other words. In May a peace is settled, in which Japan gains a province bordering their Vietnamese possessions. Great Britain goes on and eventually gains the southern half of Borneo.

    Bob: While a nice expansion, Japan really needs to do better than that.

    Jim: It seems that the contestants agree with you. In August 1580 they fabricate a claim on the throne of Gondwana and in November on Orissa's and declare wars of unification on both of them!

    Bob: Ahah! An interesting turn of events. Orissa's allies rush to their aid, so Bihar, Deccan, Maduras and Rajputana are soon locked in war with Japan.



    Jim: Looks like the better part of India is now fighting the Japanese.

    Bob: The Japanese have the advantage, however. The two enemy alliances scrape together about 50 regiments against Japan's 70, while Japan has by far the bigger fleet. Also, Japan's land tech is now at level 15, while the Indian nation's land tech hovers around level 8 or 9. I do not expect that much difficulties as long as rebel armies of dozens of regiments stay out of the picture.

    Jim: Looks like you're right. The Imperial Fleet ships around 50 regiments to India without problems and soon a beachhead is established. This show of competence of the Japanese military enables our contestants to improve the power base of the Emperor, increasing Centralisation.

    Bob: In 1582, Bihar concedes defeat, while Rajputana signs a white peace. The next year Deccan is vassalized and Gondwana become the junior partner in a Personal Union with Japan. After some more fighting, in 1584 Madurai is forced to become Japan's vassal and Orissa becomes the third Union partner of Japan, ending the first Japanese-Indian war.

    Jim: Wow! In just two years, about a third of the Indian subcontinent now serves the Chrysanthemum Throne!

    Bob: Indeed, Jim, a much-needed improvement of Japan's situation. However, the Japanese team does not rest on its laurels. After improving the relations with their vassals and partners, establishing military access and alliances with them and further construction of buildings, a new war is launched. A claim is made on the throne of Mysore, behind which an alliance of four other Indian nations is rallied.



    Jim: Looks like this alliance is a bit stronger that with the first Indian war, especially in the navy department.

    Bob: It's lucky then, that all the needed troops are already on location. The war also goes very well for the Japanese, with Vijyanagar and Bijapur vassalized by the end of 1587.

    Jim: Sadly, the economy doesn't go that well. Inflation has risen to 14% due to mismanagement during the team's absence. A new Master of the Mint is hired and a Diplomat as well, seeing that Infamy has risen to 19.

    Bob: And of course, a month later this happens:



    Jim: Painful. A stability hit like this will take about four years to recover from. The alternative, a hefty increase in inflation, would be even more disastrous.

    Bob: At least the contestants have their military successes to comfort them. In 1588 Travannacore is vassalised and Mysore is put into a Union. Peace returns to Japan.

    Jim: At a price, Bob. The reputation of Japan is now very bad, with an Infamy of 21. It's no wonder that they build an Embassy in Japanese Vietnam to improve their international standing.

    Bob: Still, a good turn of the Japanese team...

    Jim: Hold on Bob, it looks like the contestants are going for a German ending...Indeed! In April 1589, they fabricate a claim on Bihar and invade it! Those crazy Japanese!

    Bob: Not that crazy. With Bihar's alllies Ming and Rajputana abandoning it, this third Indian war is even easier than the previous two and in August Bihar becomes Japan's fifth Union partner.

    Jim: A nice ending of the Japanese turn, which is marred slightly by Great Britain taking a province from vassal Vijayanagar, as they were at war before Japan vassalised Vijayanagar. Still, Japanese gains in India remain impressive.

    Bob: This map shows the extend of the Japanese empire at the moment: everything within the red border is either a vassal or a partner of Japan.



    Jim: Hopefully these conquests will enable the Japanese to catch up to the Germans. See you after the break!
    Last edited by knul; 17-10-2011 at 01:34.
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  7. #187
    Wow! That was an exciting turn for the Japanese. I'm sure the team is hoping for a miraculous heir to inherit these gains and enable them to Westernize. The only problem then would be waiting for cores.

    Great Britain is moving into India pretty early and will hopefully not be drawn into a war with Japan off screen.

  8. #188
    General knul's Avatar
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    Turn 10, second half: stubborn Spanish


    Jim: Welcome back everyone! The year is 1590 and the Germans are ready for some more annexation of German princes.

    Bob: It surprise me that none of the great powers have interfered so far. They just let the Germans get stronger and stronger without much opposition.

    Jim: You get your wish! Great Britain has interfered on behalf of a German prince, making this the first war of Germany with another great power.

    Bob: Which German prince?

    Jim: I have no idea. In the period 1590-1592, Germany declares war on six princes and annexes all of them. Their allies all concede defeat except for Great Britain, who continues the war.

    Bob: It doesn't do much, though, as no British armies land in Germany or navies blockade German ports.

    Jim: Still, in 1593 Germany agrees to pay a measly 25 ducats to GB, a symbolic gesture. Although it hurts the king's legitimacy, it removes a major threat and reduces the probability of other nations joining the war.

    Bob: Hey, a stroke of luck for our contestants!



    Jim: Ohh, this will be an excellent opportunity for Germany to expand outside the German region. And indeed they take this opportunity! As Genua has no significant allies, in December 1593 Germany gains three Italian provinces.

    Bob: Also, another German prince is annexed.

    Jim: Germany is now truly growing strong and self-assured. It's no wonder then, that in 1594 Germany declares war on Spain to get Pressbug, a German core on Spanish Hungary.



    Bob: Is this wise? Spain has a way stronger navy and only a slightly weaker army.

    Jim: We shall see. In the meantime a succession crisis breaks out. After Leopold Joseph I dies, his son Friedrich I becomes king but has a very weak claim, no doubt due to his very weak skills. His ADM score according to the BlueBlood scanner is only 3/5/3, bottom of the barrel. A throne pretender revolts but is quickly subdued. More problematic is that due to low Legitimacy, Germany is almost considered Dishonourable Scum!

    Bob: Like with the Japanese, the Germans can find comfort in military exploits. In December 1594 a Spanish army of 24 regiments surrenders. Soon all the territory of Spain and its allies in East Europe is overrun by the German.

    Jim: Still, domestic issues are not ignored. In Lombardia an embassy is build to improve the extremely bad German reputation. Friedrich also continues his father's policy of encouraging Free Trade.

    Bob: Even with the defeats in East Europe, Spain refuses to hand over Pressburg. So Germany gets military access from France and marches its armies to the Spanish-French border. In a series of battles, two Northern Spanish provinces are captured and 17 Spanish regiment annihilated, at the loss of 24 German regiments.

    Jim: That's the biggest German loss yet! Spain proves to be an equal match.

    Bob: At least in stubbornness. Still they will not surrender Pressburg, but due to Germany's great perfomance, each German peace offer destabilises Spain.

    Jim: Too bad that after three such offers, in a huge battle in Barcelona Germany losses 20 regiments and soon its conquests in northern Spain.

    Bob: Quite a blood war for just one meagre province.

    Jim: The honour of two great powers is at stake, I guess.

    Bob: German spirits are lifted, though, by the invention of post offices, which are directly build in bulk across Germany. The German economy is already strong, even with its relative low tax and production efficiency due to high Decentralisation.



    Jim: Wait until Germany's Free Trade policy comes into swing! Until now trade is just a small part of German income, but I foresee that in the future, trade will become the major source of income.

    Bob: I shudder at the thought, as Germany already has the largest economy in the world by quite a bit.



    Jim: I can also see that it's almost four times the size of Japan's economy! I wonder how they will ever catch up?

    Bob: They'll find a way. Incidentally, Germany comes into contact with Japan in July 1598.

    Jim: Meanwhile, Frankfurt is annexed, as is Austria. In most timelines Austria becomes a great power but here...well, let's just say that the German team hasn't reached the finals of Double Domination for nothing.



    Bob: Very nice. Only half a dozen independent German princes remain. Too bad there's little progress in the war with Spain. A bit of a step back, even, as Spain is joined by an influential archbishop.

    Jim: One of the German princes?

    Bob: No, Portugal.



    Jim: Interesting. Perhaps the monarchy didn't survive the transfer of Portugal's capital to Central America? Another interesting thing is that the war with Spain is still going on as the German team returns home. Bit of a risky move, don't you agree?

    Bob: Certainly. It seem the German team has quite some confidence in the natives' ability to deal with this. We can only wait if they are proved right.

    Jim: Indeed, all the more reasons for our viewers to tune in next time!

    Last edited by knul; 17-10-2011 at 01:34.
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  9. #189
    Wow, unless Japan makes good use of India (and have some luck) they won't win against Germany!

  10. #190
    Dremora Courtier Arakhor's Avatar
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    Poland's doing impressively, it appears. It does seem rather a foregone conclusion as to the eventual winner of the game.
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  11. #191
    First Lieutenant MarkusH's Avatar
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    Nice Sweden

    And the japanese is are ages after germany BUT! no asian power can mach the tehc level of the Japanese Imperial Armies making it possible for japan to just steamroll everything. And the germans, even as they are the mightiest nation in europe and thus the world they have very powerful almost equal enemies (unlike japan).

    Both France, The UK and Spain can give them a match and what if two team together? and in the east can Sweden, Poland and Novgorod be some prolbem for Germany.
    What if a French-Spanish-Polish-Novgorodian alliance againts germany kicks in?

  12. #192
    Germany is in a great position but Spain's already proven that it can beat the German armies if needs be. It isn't likely, but Spain may possibly force some concessions to weaken Germany. Also, whew, Germany has some big neighbors.

  13. #193
    General knul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallfellow View Post
    Another couple of excellent updates

    Good to see that both nations are doing better Too bad Japan didn't get Ming into a PU, that would have helped things along nicely in Asia if you had succeeded

    And Germany is doing good for now, taking back cores always helps ofcourse, but when you're done with that you'll have to start in on BBB and Spain, which should be harder nuts to crack.
    Thank you Tallfellow. As you see, I've already started with Spain before getting all my cores. I had to: in 1596 I would have lost my core on Pressburg and we can't have that, can we?

    Quote Originally Posted by Omen View Post
    Wow! That was an exciting turn for the Japanese. I'm sure the team is hoping for a miraculous heir to inherit these gains and enable them to Westernize. The only problem then would be waiting for cores.

    Great Britain is moving into India pretty early and will hopefully not be drawn into a war with Japan off screen.
    At the moment GB continually wants to ally with Japan, but I agree that a war between GB and Japan wouldn't be pretty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of Britain View Post
    Wow, unless Japan makes good use of India (and have some luck) they won't win against Germany!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arakhor View Post
    Poland's doing impressively, it appears. It does seem rather a foregone conclusion as to the eventual winner of the game.
    The race is not yet run. Still, I do worry that Germany is just too powerful and that another handicap has to be introced. I'm working on some solution to give Japan a sporting chance.

    All this shows how extremely powerful a united Germany is in this game, even with a much reduced unification decision. I underestimated the power of Germany, partly because in the latest patches the AI builds a lot more buildings, which are then taken over by Germany's reconquest wars. Every province I conquer has at least 10 buildings in it, making each province a gold mine compared to what Japan gets.


    Quote Originally Posted by MarkusH View Post
    Nice Sweden

    And the japanese is are ages after germany BUT! no asian power can mach the tehc level of the Japanese Imperial Armies making it possible for japan to just steamroll everything. And the germans, even as they are the mightiest nation in europe and thus the world they have very powerful almost equal enemies (unlike japan).
    The saving grace for Japan is indeed that they have free play in a large continent (until non-German europeans show up). Also, the handicaps for Germany (no more free cores, no Imperialism, must use CB) will kick in soon, while Japan will have many options for expansion. Let's hope that this will give Japan its much-needed boost.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkusH View Post
    Both France, The UK and Spain can give them a match and what if two team together? and in the east can Sweden, Poland and Novgorod be some prolbem for Germany.
    What if a French-Spanish-Polish-Novgorodian alliance againts germany kicks in?
    Poland and Novgorod get more and more behind in Land tech. Their contribution to an anti-German alliance would be quite limited.

    France, GB and Spain would indeed be a huge threat, but as you can imagine France and GB are mortal enemies, what with all these wars they're fighting over the French coastal provinces.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omen View Post
    Germany is in a great position but Spain's already proven that it can beat the German armies if needs be. It isn't likely, but Spain may possibly force some concessions to weaken Germany. Also, whew, Germany has some big neighbors.
    France, GB and Spain all can match the power of Germany to a degree (yet). However, losing say 40 regiments is nothing for Germany. I forgot to mention but during the war I build about 60 new regiments as reinforcements without a sweat. That's why I was so confident to let the AI continue the war.
    Last edited by knul; 09-11-2011 at 14:18.
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  14. #194
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    I didn't realise that it's so late in game terms! I wonder if the two players manage to share a border before the final battle? This surely would make it more exciting, but also much harder for Japan.

  15. #195
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    Ooh, Japan is going to have to kick it into high gear.
    Germany is a great power that will only get greater as it assumes its place in the sun.
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  16. #196
    General knul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memento Mori View Post
    I didn't realise that it's so late in game terms! I wonder if the two players manage to share a border before the final battle? This surely would make it more exciting, but also much harder for Japan.
    I think it primarely depends on how well Japan will do. A shared border will indeed make it easier for Germany.

    Quote Originally Posted by blsteen View Post
    Ooh, Japan is going to have to kick it into high gear. Germany is a great power that will only get greater as it assumes its place in the sun.
    Not only is Germany taking its place in the sun, it's laying its towels are over the place!

    I'm working on some way to make Japan competitive and I think it will work out reasonably well.
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  17. #197
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Hm, I liked what you did to the German unification decision, otherwise the game would have been far too easy for the German team. I still think they will be miles ahead of the Japanese team once the showdown starts.

    Did you chose National Conscripts for Japan, or the AI? I always think Military Drill let's you do much more with your MP, or CAD in your place would be a better choice. You've got tons of stab hits ahead of you still.

    Oh, and Monetary Reforms are terrible. It's the one event I hate with a passion, and I get it 2-5 times every game! A choice between plague and cholera, as the German saying goes...

    EDIT: A PU'd and incorporated Ming with a fully westernised army could save Japan, otherwise I think the outlook is pretty bleak...
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  18. #198
    General knul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by safferli View Post
    Hm, I liked what you did to the German unification decision, otherwise the game would have been far too easy for the German team. I still think they will be miles ahead of the Japanese team once the showdown starts.
    For the sake of drama, I hope not. I would love to see a stronger Japan so that in the Final Battle I have an uphill struggle.

    Quote Originally Posted by safferli View Post
    Did you chose National Conscripts for Japan, or the AI? I always think Military Drill let's you do much more with your MP, or CAD in your place would be a better choice. You've got tons of stab hits ahead of you still.
    I'm sorry it wasn't clear from the AAR: the AI chose that NI, in this situation I would never have chosen it. I agree that at the moment CAD is probably the best choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by safferli View Post
    EDIT: A PU'd and incorporated Ming with a fully westernised army could save Japan, otherwise I think the outlook is pretty bleak...
    In the end, Japan needs China and a Westernised army, I agree on that. In the short therm, though, I focus on getting India. Hopefully I can quickly inherit all those PUs and expand my army enough to tackle Ming.
    Current AAR: EU4: Single Domination: Ming, the first EU4 AAR ever to feature a non-European country!
    Finished AARs: EU3: Double Domination: Germany versus Japan. EU3: Yin, Yang and the ugly: a Divine Wind Ming AAR

    See an overview of my AARs at my Ink Well page.

  19. #199
    Couldn't you just change the rules so you'll play Japan instead of Germany for the last 50 years in case it's still that much stronger?

  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by no7892142 View Post
    Couldn't you just change the rules so you'll play Japan instead of Germany for the last 50 years in case it's still that much stronger?
    The reason why I made Japan the defender is that I wanted to have a high-tech war in Asia for a change. In my Ming AAR for example I fought most of the late game war in Europe. In all my games any late game war in Asia is a walkover. With a strong Japan in this game, I would have a non-trivial war in Asia.

    So while I certainly could make Germany the defender in the Final Battle, I much rather have Japan doing that. Only if things turn out very desperate will I play Japan in the Final Battle instead of Germany.
    Current AAR: EU4: Single Domination: Ming, the first EU4 AAR ever to feature a non-European country!
    Finished AARs: EU3: Double Domination: Germany versus Japan. EU3: Yin, Yang and the ugly: a Divine Wind Ming AAR

    See an overview of my AARs at my Ink Well page.

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