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Thread: Hearts of Iron 3 DLC 'Dies Irae: Götterdämmerung' Developer Diary #2

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    I.C.E. Devildread's Avatar
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    Hearts of Iron 3 DLC 'Dies Irae: Götterdämmerung' Developer Diary #2

    Hi, and welcome to the second developer diary for the Hearts of Iron 3 DLC ”Dies Irae: Götterdämmerung” which features among many other things a German campaign focus. With Dies Irae: Götterdämmerung, you will be able to play Germany and only Germany, but like you never played it before in an Hearts of Iron game.

    In this diary, we will talk a about the some changes in the gameplay that DI:G brings to HoI3.

    The Operational Feature:

    In Dies Irae, as in real life, different areas call for different equipment. You can't just send your troops in the field and expect them to be 100% efficient in all terrains. This is why we made Operational Planning a key to success in the game. We made it in two different parts:
    • Operation planning
      The player has access to several "technologies/doctrines" abstractly representing the generals drawing plans of the area, local tactics planning and in general having some people of your staff working on the subject. Those technologies, once researched, lead to several bonus such as a special decisions with little manpower boost and some otherwise hidden events. The idea is to give some awards for the player who plays historically and to have some interesting bonus while he invests time and leadership in planning.


      Left: Operation Weresubung, the troops were transported in capital and escort ships so we have decided to model this with a little transport capacity increase that may let you put 2-3 brigades in a Kriegsmarine surface fleet.
      Right: Once the techs are researched, you have access to a decision available only in a short period of time (one year) that grants you several little bonus (those Weresubung decisions gives you 50 manpower each).


    • Operational units
      The other part we want to introduce is the Operational Units feature. We created an Afrika Korps Operational tech that activate four units: Afrika Korps infantry, Afrika Korps motorized infantry, Afrika Korps mechanized infantry and Afrika Korps armor. Those units are specialized in the new desert terrains we created in North Africa, replacing the whole plains, hills, urban or mountains we had in vanilla. Desert warfare is now more bloody (higher attrition) and favouring the defender.


      (link)

      Sending regular units under this climate is not recommended and this is why we made the Afrika Korps desert equiped regiments. You can't create an Afrika Korps regiment, you have to select a unit on the map and equip it with desert stuff, thanks to the upgrade function.


      Left: once completed, you can ship those units to Africa.
      Right: the Afrika Korps Operational tech also include a decision making Italy donate you three transport ships in the Med.



    A-Historical chances:

    In Dies Irae: Götterdämmerung (thanks to this project, I can spell it now!), we are 110% focused on Germany (you can't even play another country). But we didn't want you to play the same campaign all over again: hop hop I make my OOB, I setup my techs, I switch two ministers and I hit the maximum speed waiting for 1939 to come. We included dozens of gameplay events and some decisions to make in the '36-'41 timeframe. Let's talk about the decisions. In vanilla HOI3, Germany has basically 4 decisions to take before the war: Remilitarization of the Rhineland, Anschluss of Austria, Treaty of Munich and first Vienna Award.
    We wanted to make you actually think about what your are doing. For instance, Remilitarization of the Rhineland decision can now lead to an early war against France and United Kingdom, as historically there were tensions between Germany and the Allies. Of course there is only a little chance to see this happen and you can avoid the war by choosing not to Remilitarize the Rhineland (not to take the decision).


    Left: historical outcome.
    Right: something bad happened. There is some decisions about this early war which can be stopped in 1937 with either or white peace or German victory/defeat over France. The early war is not killing the '36 campaign but you can be sure that France and United Kingdom will be prepared for your next move.


    In a similar manner, if you put enough leadership points in espionnage and raising the different NSDAP over your neighbors, the player can choose between a diplomatic and forced Anschluss or make an earlier push over the Sudetenland and the annexation of Czechoslovakia. All those decisions can lead to an early world war too, related to how you acted in the past: if you don't remilitarize the Rhineland, you show the Allies that you are in a good spirit and that could prevent any early war and so on. Helped with some good fortune, you can even have all the cake without any war (until you ask too much).


    (link)
    When I don't find historical background, I allow myself a little fun with the event descriptions.
    This event is the consequence of two things: Poland agreed to give away Dantzig to Germany (thanks to the NSDAP being powerful in this country) ; and the decision that Germany had made after the secession of Dantzig to exige Upper Silesia.


    DI:G provides a lot of a-historical possibilities. I can't share all of them but I want to show one more.
    In HOI3, the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is not mandatory and you can simply avoid the pact and be sure Soviet Union won't stab you while you are in France or while you are preparing your forces. With the DLC this is not true anymore. You can't just play around without fearing the consequences. There are two ways to sign the pact: Germany asks or, if not, Soviet will ask in late August. That way you can't ignore the pact, you'll have to refuse it if you don't want it, making clear in the eyes of Stalin that you want the conflict. The M-R Pact also provides the historical Soviet invasion of Poland, making you operate faster in this campaign and not having to grab all the victory points by yourself.


    Left: if you sign the pact, you'll have to respect it: no more annexation of the Baltic States without some Soviet move. Anyway this is based on random chance + some modifiers too. So you can take the shot at your own risk.
    Right: Not signing the pact can lead to some surprises, based on random chances and either or not you annexed the Baltic States / helped Finland in the Winter War


    This is the end of the second Developer Diary for Dies Irae: Götterdämmerung. Don't worry, we have still a lot of things to talk about in the next one.

    Few words: Barbarossa, U-Boats and Reichministers.
    Oh, and a little surprise you might find interesting:


    (link)


    -Devildread and Danevang

    --edit: Bonus picture
    Last edited by Devildread; 21-04-2011 at 20:32.

  2. #2
    First?

    #Edit# This looks like you will have some interesting desicions to make early on.

  3. #3
    The Wiggster Demi Moderator RedRalphWiggum's Avatar

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    A Georg Elser event!!! What a guy, nice to see him recognised.

  4. #4
    Paradox mercenary artist Danevang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeonX View Post
    First?

    #Edit# This looks like you will have some interesting desicions to make early on.
    First what?
    I've got nothing to say, but it's okay.

  5. #5
    Everything looks really good. This looks like a whole new game!

    I see you made a new terrain type for Africa? Great! Did you add Bocage terrain as in ICE? And did you add new terrain for the Soviet Union?

    But again I am a bit puzzled by the Africa Korps Units? Only 4 units will work good in Africa?
    What as I want to use heayy armour in Africa? The Tiger I was at it's best in Africa... You made a generic type of Armor for the Africa Korps? Which includes heavy Armor bonusses?

    How will the AI handle the new terrain? Because you need to add those terrain bonus for Afrika Korps also to the vanilla units that the AI uses. So if you want to have the AI fight well you should add those terrain bonus to the vanilla *.brigade types.

    If you do this the German regular troops will have those terrain bonusses also, making the Afrika Korps not necessary.
    Or did you add a tech to all the units used by non German countries that add those bonusses?


    Edit: For Afrika Panzer you have the wrong unit desc. No Fuel consumptio, is a soft target... I think you already said that it was changed in the DD 1.

    Edit 2: Will there be Waffen-SS units? An immersion focus game experience that centers on Germany with no Waffen-SS would be a shame. If included it should be tied with Himmler. No Himmer and No Hitler means no Waffen-SS.
    Last edited by Thaegen; 21-04-2011 at 15:51.

  6. #6
    I really like the way you have to use the upgrade button to make the Afrika Korps.

    I just wonder why you didn't add more units to the Afrika Korps upgrade. Tiger I's were use in Africa, not many. But the few that were there were very feared by the Allies. So a heavy Armor Afrika Korps brigade would be justified.
    The same for Anti-tank Brigade. The Germans used the 88-mm with great succes in Afrika, while the British had to do it with their 2 and 6 pounders.

    Why 3 types of Afrika Korps Infantry? Wouldn't it be better to have only 1 Afrika Infantry brigade which is a mix of motorized and mechanized Infantry??
    Than some support brigades could be added so you can make more interesting Divisions. AA/Engineers/AT/Armoured Car....

  7. #7
    Liberté, egalité, fraternité StephenT's Avatar
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    Sounds like some interesting colour being added to the campaign, but I do have a concern... you're giving lots of gameplay advantages to Germany. Warships that can double as troop transports without needing vulnerable cargo ships in the fleet. Special units that can operate in the desert with fewer penalties... Are other countries also going to get access to these bonuses? Or are you lavishing more advantages on a country, Germany, which frankly is pretty easy to play in the first place, and hardly needs even more bonuses?

    Of course, if you're also including a bunch of negative events and penalties for Germany, that'll be different; but you didn't mention them.

  8. #8
    I.C.E. Devildread's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaegen View Post
    Everything looks really good. This looks like a whole new game!

    I see you made a new terrain type for Africa? Great! Did you add Bocage terrain as in ICE? And did you add new terrain for the Soviet Union?

    But again I am a bit puzzled by the Africa Korps Units? Only 4 units will work good in Africa?
    What as I want to use heayy armour in Africa? The Tiger I was at it's best in Africa... You made a generic type of Armor for the Africa Korps? Which includes heavy Armor bonusses?

    How will the AI handle the new terrain? Because you need to add those terrain bonus for Afrika Korps also to the vanilla units that the AI uses. So if you want to have the AI fight well you should add those terrain bonus to the vanilla *.brigade types.

    If you do this the German regular troops will have those terrain bonusses also, making the Afrika Korps not necessary.
    Or did you add a tech to all the units used by non German countries that add those bonusses?


    Edit: For Afrika Panzer you have the wrong unit desc. No Fuel consumptio, is a soft target... I think you already said that it was changed in the DD 1.

    Edit 2: Will there be Waffen-SS units? An immersion focus game experience that centers on Germany with no Waffen-SS would be a shame. If included it should be tied with Himmler. No Himmer and No Hitler means no Waffen-SS.
    Your thoughts are interesting, I may reconsider some things for day one patch (merging the infantry in one and adding AT guns). Afrika Korps armour is already a mix of light/med/heavy tanks in the stats, abstractly upgraded with medium armour techs (there is no need to make it upgrade with 12 techs).

    AI is favoured by the defense bonus the Africa terrain gives and the fact that attrition is only in ennemy territory, so there is no need in my opinion to add a separate tech for the AI about Africa terrain.
    We didn't add other terrain, as it is not really needed in the scope of this DLC (we don't want to re-do the map).

    Waffen-SS didn't make it to the DLC due to several countries laws, this is a shame I agree and this is why we plan to release a SS mod with new units and special counters. I want the SS just for the black counters I have to admit.

  9. #9
    I.C.E. Devildread's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenT View Post
    Sounds like some interesting colour being added to the campaign, but I do have a concern... you're giving lots of gameplay advantages to Germany. Warships that can double as troop transports without needing vulnerable cargo ships in the fleet. Special units that can operate in the desert with fewer penalties... Are other countries also going to get access to these bonuses? Or are you lavishing more advantages on a country, Germany, which frankly is pretty easy to play in the first place, and hardly needs even more bonuses?

    Of course, if you're also including a bunch of negative events and penalties for Germany, that'll be different; but you didn't mention them.
    Your fears will disapear in the next diary I think.
    I expected comments like that and I can assure you that Germany is not easier to play than vanilla, if any it is a lot harder due to some big bonuses the AI will get during Barbarossa or when USA will join the Allies (acting as an Arsenal of Democracy). But I don't want to say too much now. I played 5 campaigns in normal difficulty (but AI control) and in all five I didn't even take Moscow. I'm sure experienced generals will do a lot better than that but I am pretty confident about the difficulty.

    As you can see in the Weserubung tech popup, the transport capacity is very little. A transport ship has 40TC, a single division 3xINF has a weight of 30, so you will need a lot of capital ships if you want to move an entire armeekorps over there.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Devildread View Post
    Your thoughts are interesting, I may reconsider some things for day one patch (merging the infantry in one and adding AT guns). Afrika Korps armour is already a mix of light/med/heavy tanks in the stats, abstractly upgraded with medium armour techs (there is no need to make it upgrade with 12 techs).

    AI is favoured by the defense bonus the Africa terrain gives and the fact that attrition is only in ennemy territory, so there is no need in my opinion to add a separate tech for the AI about Africa terrain.
    We didn't add other terrain, as it is not really needed in the scope of this DLC (we don't want to re-do the map).

    Waffen-SS didn't make it to the DLC due to several countries laws, this is a shame I agree and this is why we plan to release a SS mod with new units and special counters. I want the SS just for the black counters I have to admit.
    Thanks for answering!

    - I really think one Afrika Korps Infantry brigade is enough (Stat mix of Mot/Mech Inf).
    - Afrika Korps Anti-Tank Brigade would be very nice!
    - The 4 component techs are good enough, people can always mod it. But adding the ability for upgrading the Heavy Armour brigade to Afrika Korps Heavy Armour brigade is not so much work? Just to have some more possibilities in Division composition for the Afrika Korps.

    About defence bonus for the Allies in Africa and attrition. What if the Afrika Korps succeeds and controls whole Afrika. But wonder by wonder the Allies send an invasion fleet. They Allies will never be able to reoccupy or control Afrika. Because they will have weaker stats and are in hostile territory.


    A shame that Waffen-SS isn't included, but you did include them in your other DLC and that wasn't a problem?

  11. #11
    I.C.E. Devildread's Avatar
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    Ennemy territory is whatever you don't own. Even if Germany controls Africa, the land is still owned by UK. Anyway if you control Suez and Gibraltar there won't be any amphibious assault. ^^

  12. #12
    Second Lieutenant JOR2010's Avatar
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    This looks pretty interesting - do you plan to have any ahistorical events such as German total economic mobilisation in 1939? I find it very irritating in vanilla that Germany maxes out in IC laws in 1939, when in reality, it was only 1942-3 before this really happened. Are you planning to have this? Keep up the good work!

  13. #13
    Field Marshal bbasgen's Avatar
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    What you guys are doing is absolutely brilliant. I think you guys understand the game and the needs of the community, very very well. Your vision is really impressive.
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  14. #14
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    Really nice work, anyway most of the time i play Germany so the fact i can choose only Germany is no problem, especially if it won't be super easy, i like big battles and the harder is to win the war the happier you are when you win it
    Btw where can i buy this and for how much? (maybe stupid question but nvm)

    And will you fix Strength and Organisation so that it will have impact on Division stats? For ex. 50% Strength Division can do only half of damage and has half of defense,toughness etc.,as 100% strength division (both have same organisation,techs etc) also Low Organisation should lower effectivness of division.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Devildread View Post
    Ennemy territory is whatever you don't own. Even if Germany controls Africa, the land is still owned by UK. Anyway if you control Suez and Gibraltar there won't be any amphibious assault. ^^
    You understand the game mechanics thousand times better than me;-), but I am still worried that the Allies will be to weak against Germany in the Afrika theatre.. Certainly when the player invests more troops in the Afrika Korps than historically.

    What if Germany defeats Allied Troops, invade that province, controls/occupies it. German troops will recieve the African terrain defence bonus. When the Allied troops try to counter attack or regain lost territory. They will have no change because the Afrika Korps recieves the bonusses added in their *.brigade file and the defence bonus added to the African terrain type. Is this correct or am I wrong?

  16. #16
    Field Marshal jju_57's Avatar
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    I have two questions for you.

    1) I know you are done making this so why can't we buy it now?
    2) In FTM PI has said they are going to change how defensiveness/toughness works. We also know it doesn't work right now. How does this DLC handle this bug? Will the DLC have to change once FTM comes out if PI changes defense/toughness?

    I do have a third question. Why do you want me to send my money.

    Edit: Oops meant WHERE do you want me to send my money.
    Last edited by jju_57; 21-04-2011 at 17:45.

  17. #17
    Paradox mercenary artist Danevang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jju_57 View Post
    I have two questions for you.

    1) I know you are done making this so why can't we buy it now?
    2) In FTM PI has said they are going to change how defensiveness/toughness works. We also know it doesn't work right now. How does this DLC handle this bug? Will the DLC have to change once FTM comes out if PI changes defense/toughness?

    I do have a third question. Why do you want me to send my money.
    Why do we want you to send your money? What?

    Anyway to the earlier question it's not out yet, I believe Paradox has certain release dates and so on, so that part is really out of our hands.
    I've got nothing to say, but it's okay.

  18. #18
    This looks absolutely awesome. Thumbs up !

  19. #19

  20. #20
    Field Marshal jju_57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danevang View Post
    Why do we want you to send your money? What?

    Anyway to the earlier question it's not out yet, I believe Paradox has certain release dates and so on, so that part is really out of our hands.
    What about question 2 which asked about defensive/toughness bug and FTM?

    Also meant WHERE to send my money not why. Sorry.

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