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Thread: Germany, 1936: Cabals from the Meuse to the Memel

  1. #221
    Evil Lawyer K W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gusbrown View Post
    Nice to see this aar moving again . Things are looking good. Any thought to sliding a division into Amiens? This would help your situation in Brugges tremendously, but i'm sure you thought of this. I have learned alot of nifty strategic ideas from you. Appreciate your efforts. Keep it up KW.
    Amiens is a little bit away, so I thought that just supporting Bruges from Lille was easier and quicker than to try a cut-off by taking Amiens, but your strategy would certainly be viable, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybvep View Post
    It seems that the French AI still overstacks the Maginot Line.
    Yes, but the French AI did that always; and don't forget that I made it somewhat obligatory to put more units there on purpose by placing 12 German divisions in Saarbrücken, Mainz and Freiburg, respectively. I'm more worried about the fact that the French do not mobilise. The more I'm thinking, the more this seems to be an AI bug.
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  2. #222
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    Amazing blitz attack, well done. You still have time to take out Poland before the snows fly, which means the backdoor into Russia during Winter War will be wide open. No rest for the successful, 1940 will not see a sitzkrieg. Glad to see you are still at it. I check this aar out everyday waiting with great anticipation.

  3. #223
    Liberal Imperialist Legosim's Avatar
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    This AAR is great to read, especially your insane knowledge on how to use the game mechanics to help you win. Keep it up!
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    Great work so far.. can't wait to see more..

  5. #225
    Corporal Dhanun's Avatar
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    Excelent work, K W, just read the whole of it.
    A great strategy and an outstanding AAR. Subscribed and waiting for more!
    Oh, and wouldn't be better to do a sea lion before a Barbarossa? Always had a bad feeling about an independent UK at my back while my troops are occupied in the east...

  6. #226
    Searching for the answer to... bosnek's Avatar
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    I must concur with previous comments, your insight and comments regarding this game will be very useful to any player (maybe the great blue bird as an exempt). Pls keep your updates coming, I have learned a lot from reading this AAR!!! This is almost like reading an AAR from the great blue bird....for me this is the best compliment I can give as a lurker...

    Keep up the excellent work!

    /Bosnek

  7. #227
    Evil Lawyer K W's Avatar
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    Just wish to notify you that I have installed the latest beta patch and that everything appears to run smoothly. I will make a short update about the important changes of the patch after the next update that was still played with the old version. The next update is already work in progress; however, I won't finish it tonight, so I will just answer some comments in the meantime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gusbrown View Post
    Amazing blitz attack, well done. You still have time to take out Poland before the snows fly, which means the backdoor into Russia during Winter War will be wide open. No rest for the successful, 1940 will not see a sitzkrieg. Glad to see you are still at it. I check this aar out everyday waiting with great anticipation.
    Thank you, I hope I don't force you to have a too long wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legosim View Post
    This AAR is great to read, especially your insane knowledge on how to use the game mechanics to help you win. Keep it up!
    My knowledge of the game engine is not perfect; as several examples and mistakes have proven, but nevertheless, thank you for your kind words.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bububabyblue View Post
    Great work so far.. can't wait to see more..


    Quote Originally Posted by Dhanun View Post
    Excelent work, K W, just read the whole of it.
    A great strategy and an outstanding AAR. Subscribed and waiting for more!
    Oh, and wouldn't be better to do a sea lion before a Barbarossa? Always had a bad feeling about an independent UK at my back while my troops are occupied in the east...
    Well, if someone has an ingenious plan how I can stage a Sea Lion with Germany's starting navy and a 19 squadron airforce without any naval bombers within a timeframe of two or three months so that I can still backstab the Soviets during the Winter War -- who am I to reject such an idea?

    Sorry, I don't intend to mock you, but as you are not the first one who expressed mild scepticism for my decision to leave the UK alone, I really wish to make clear that from my point of view it is not possible to stage Sea Lion now. Of course it would be preferable to have the UK out of the game, but in the same way it would be preferable to have 100 points of additional IC, the Crimean peninsula and a nice girl on my lap that doesn't ask too much questions. Reality requires that we set priorities, and my priority is the defeat of the Soviet Union, which makes any adventures in Britain unrealistic.

    Still, thank you for your praise, I really appreciate it. And if you have despite my reservations any ideas; just state them. It wouldn't be the first time that someone has proven me wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by bosnek View Post
    I must concur with previous comments, your insight and comments regarding this game will be very useful to any player (maybe the great blue bird as an exempt). Pls keep your updates coming, I have learned a lot from reading this AAR!!! This is almost like reading an AAR from the great blue bird....for me this is the best compliment I can give as a lurker...

    Keep up the excellent work!

    /Bosnek
    Oh my, you're quite flattering with this comparison. Thank you.
    If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. – George Orwell

  8. #228
    Corporal Dhanun's Avatar
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    Indeed, I have forgotten this is DH and not HoI2. Haven't played it for too long, yet. In HoI2 it was pretty easy to trick the royal navy with decoys (some useless ships) and send a group of troop transports to assault the island... guess that DH isn't that simple anymore
    Let us built Fort Europe than and hope the british don't come down to play while Barbarossa is running. Patiently awaiting the update.... well, not so patiently

  9. #229
    Second Lieutenant Brisk86's Avatar
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    Operation Seelöwe is really easy. Just go on with Barbarossa and leave 3- 6 Divisons in the background for a possible beachhead.
    Somtimes when you are deep in the SU and Italy is not losing immediately in Africa the GB AI will leave some bechas without any protection also the most of the royal navy is somewhere else. With some luck you will be able to make a beachhead with the 6 divisions. than you can take some troops form the east to invade GB!
    That is possible wihtout building any new ships because the ai is really stupid.
    I have done it the same in my last game. I was shortly away from moskau and accidentally i registerd that gb have leave some bechas without protection. So i stoped my offens in the east and invade UK in 2 months.
    After some time the USA will ask for peace
    Frederick the Great said: "Diplomacy without arms is like music without instruments", so let's build up the orchestra!

  10. #230
    Evil Lawyer K W's Avatar
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    Part XLI: August 1939




    Upon loading the game, the British decide to abandon their plans for Operation Wilfred that would have threatened our supply with Swedish iron ore. The Führer is pleased, it becomes more probable that we won't have to deal with an additional Scandinavian theatre in the future. Scandinavia will be a question that will be addressed after the fall of the Soviet Union.

    The pro forma capture of Paris is delayed, again, because the French start immediately after the arrival of my forces in Paris a counter-attack on the city -- with one infantry division. The French should use more divisions for their counter-attacks if they wish to occupy us with battles that last longer than six or seven hours.

    The spearhead in Bruges progresses now, after the initial obstacles have been succesfully circumvented, with lightning speed. The battle of Dunkirk is concluded with a victory (the province, though, is again not awarded to me for some reasons, DH has obviously some serious problems to decide when the control over a province needs to be transfered) and preparations for an assault against Amiens are already underway; in the case that the French divisions from Dunkirk all retreat to Amiens, it could become an unnecessary long battle against 17 divisions, so I order the infantry corps in Laon, Chateau Thierry and Lille to support the upcoming offensive against Amiens.

    EDIT: ^_AC_^ provided an explanation for the behaviour of the game engine.



    The Soviets try to influence the global opinion against us. Because of our investments in our intelligence network the Soviet operation fails and our belligerence remains unchanged. At the end of this update, our belligerence is on 12, still 27 points away before a country like Poland could outright declare war on us without joining the Allies.

    The counter-attack on Paris has been repelled and, finally, the game engine has some mercy and gives us control over the French capital. The French government has fled to Chartres (a stupid decision, if you ask me -- by placing their new capital so close to the front, I can continuously rob them off their resources) and we receive a nice boost to our resource stockpiles by plundering the central French depot in Paris.

    The opportunity for a pocket should never be forfeited. As I've stated before, only Le Havre needs to be taken in order to trap and destroy a dozen of French divisions. The French strength around Paris is so ludicrous that I just move my HQ in Paris to Le Havre. Within hours, the city is taken and the pocket (Calais, Amiens, Dieppe) is closed.

    Just a moment later, the game engine is generous again and turns over the control of Dunkirk to us, while at the same time the battle of Amiens is concluded with a victory. The British answer this with a strategical bombardment of Dunkirk; some province constructions are damaged. I'm sure that the French population is very thankful for this helpful support by their most charitable allies, although German tank production hasn't started in Dunkirk yet.

    A side note: The French have opened another offensive against Eicke's infantry corps in Arlon, the battle of Liege is still ongoing and the French government still believes that it is not necessary to mobilise.



    Amiens is taken, which splits the pocket into two. The situation is a little bit confusing now and the initial orders from the start of Stage II are still in force, although some of them became obsolete with the new situation at the Atlantic Coast, so I issue a general stop command to all units in the area. After reevaluating the situation, I give the following orders:

    The Luftwaffe will be rebased from Essen to Brussels. The airport in Brussels is damaged, but currently, the Luftwaffe contributes virtually nothing to the operations in France, which could unnecessarily prolong Case Yellow for some days. As soon as they become operational again, I will continue with ground support and air superiority missions in France.

    We won't destroy the pocket in Calais yet, because the French divisions in Amiens are still retreating to the province. We will wait until all French divisions are in Calais before we start such an undertaking.

    The Dieppe pocket contains only one division. They know that they're doomed, thus they try to break out of the pocket by attacking my HQ in Le Havre.



    Although some of our units need to stop for a while, the key to every productive Blitzkrieg strategy is constant offensive mobility. With the Atlantic Coast area quite for now, we have to open major offensives on other parts of the front to prevent any opportunities for the French to recover from our attacks.

    General von Leeb's infantry corps in Lille will be tasked with the capture of Hirson. Hirson is defended by four French divisions. Von Leeb will receive additional support from Mons, which added together results in an assault of twelve German infantry divisions and one HQ. After the French in Hirson are beaten, the units in Mons will start to put pressure on the divisions in Sedan that currently participate in the French counter-attack against Arlon. Eicke's infantry corps in Arlon must stand its ground until the battle of Hirson is concluded; and as the battle progresses very slowly in favour of the French, I have no doubts that the relief troops from Mons will intervene timely.

    General von Witzleben will penetrate the French front at the same time in Reims with the support of von Reichenau's infantry corps in Chateau Thierry. The French have six divisions in Reims, and we attack without the support of an HQ, but nevertheless, everything else than a swift victory would be surprising. The French are losing everywhere; they have currently only a say in the question how long it will take until France capitulates, not in the question if France capitulates.

    Von Rundstedt's HQ in Le Havre that presently is in a battle against the lone French division from Dieppe will be protected by the intervention of von Manstein's panzer forces in Paris. The armor corps will attack Dieppe, and as soon as the battle is over, the French division will be destroyed due to the encirclement of the province. However, I won't take the province yet, as it would be necessary to leave or weaken the defenses of Paris; so after the division is destroyed, I will order von Manstein to remain in Paris.

    According to German intelligence, the French army is down to 97 infantry, two armor and two HQ divisions. The downfall of France is almost sealed, so I start to make the first preparations for the attack against the Soviet Union by starting a diplomatic offensive in Finland, Romania and Bulgaria. Our diplomatic influence mission results in Bulgaria in a policy change towards central planning.



    After some hours, the Luftwaffe has finished its redeployment to Brussels and my units start to carry out the new orders.

    As a reaction to von Manstein's attack on Dieppe, the trapped French division decides to leave von Rundstedt's HQ in Le Havre alone. The other battles also start in no time; it's very cool, just look how many red arrows the German counters display.

    The battle of Dieppe ends first; the French division in Dieppe is destroyed and Manstein's orders to take Dieppe are aborted. While the other battles are still going on, the French decide to reinforce their positions in the still ongoing battle of Liege by sending additional divisions there; our twelve infantry divisions in Eupen now face eleven French divisions in Liege. However, as most of the divisions in Liege are hopelessly exhausted and disorganised, this is just another method of the French to delay the inevitable.

    Usually, this update would end at this point as I've posted five pictures and said everything, but shortly before I saved the game, something happened ...





    That's it. I want South Tyrol back! In the best case, the Balkans will become a mess and the British will gain uncontested control over North Africa; in the worst case, Operation Avalanche will be launched in 1943 while my divisions are deep in Russia. Of course, as the leader of the Axis, I have not the slightest right to veto the entry of Italians into my alliance -- I mean, who am I to disagree with the most serene and illustrious Mussolini, who, after all, crushed the mighty super power of Ethiopia in a lightning attack that lasted just two years?!
    Last edited by K W; 14-07-2011 at 20:24.
    If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. – George Orwell

  11. #231
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    What were they thinking when they wrote that event!!!! Seriously...

  12. #232
    Evil Lawyer K W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhanun View Post
    Indeed, I have forgotten this is DH and not HoI2. Haven't played it for too long, yet. In HoI2 it was pretty easy to trick the royal navy with decoys (some useless ships) and send a group of troop transports to assault the island... guess that DH isn't that simple anymore
    Let us built Fort Europe than and hope the british don't come down to play while Barbarossa is running. Patiently awaiting the update.... well, not so patiently
    Quote Originally Posted by Brisk86 View Post
    Operation Seelöwe is really easy. Just go on with Barbarossa and leave 3- 6 Divisons in the background for a possible beachhead.
    Somtimes when you are deep in the SU and Italy is not losing immediately in Africa the GB AI will leave some bechas without any protection also the most of the royal navy is somewhere else. With some luck you will be able to make a beachhead with the 6 divisions. than you can take some troops form the east to invade GB!
    That is possible wihtout building any new ships because the ai is really stupid.
    I have done it the same in my last game. I was shortly away from moskau and accidentally i registerd that gb have leave some bechas without protection. So i stoped my offens in the east and invade UK in 2 months.
    After some time the USA will ask for peace
    I always considered the decoy strategy as gamey and would rather not do it. However, the other strategy I used in HoI and to some parts in AOD -- the excessive use of naval bombers -- is admittedly only slightly less gamey considering that despite several nerfs, naval bombers are still some kind of uber-unit. However, I might consider it, because after all, the latest developments show that the game also forces me to ally with Italians ...

    ... which, undoubtedly, requites some form of compensation.

    And, Brisk, how did the US ask for peace? I mean, they're part of a major alliance, so it would be only possible through an event.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leviathan07 View Post


    What were they thinking when they wrote that event!!!! Seriously...
    I have no idea. I have especially not the slightest idea why I see this event for the first time. During my test games, it never fired. I will investigate this event for the next update, that also deals with the latest beta patch, in more detail.

    And I hope that for the next patch, this will be changed. Really. It has to be changed. Not because they're Italians, but because especially in this game, my Italians performed so bad that they confirmed every cliché one could think of. And that should give every player the right to kindly say "No! No! No!" to Benito.
    If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. – George Orwell

  13. #233
    Field Marshal Cybvep's Avatar

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    At least the Italians may take some French provinces, as the unmanned forts will not be able to stop them... right?

  14. #234
    Evil Lawyer K W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybvep View Post
    At least the Italians may take some French provinces, as the unmanned forts will not be able to stop them... right?
    They diligently prepared, of course, for their entry into the war for a long time by placing four divisions at the Franco-Italian border. The French apparently already started to shift their divisions to the south, so with some luck, they will take two or three French provinces if I will be able to knock the French out quickly. However, if it takes a little bit longer so that the French can reinforce their positions in the south, then we may very well see some French divisions approaching Milan.

    It would be now a good time for Franco to enter the Axis, but unfortunately, the alliance chances are still zero despite wonderful relations.
    If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. – George Orwell

  15. #235
    Corporal Dhanun's Avatar
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    Auch... that was unexpected.
    Now, as Churchill would say, Germany gained its soft underbelly.
    Didn't know that they could join the Axis without Germany's consent too, hope they change it. The axis are already troubled by beaches without getting near the mediterranean.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by K W View Post
    The battle of Dunkirk is concluded with a victory (the province, though, is again not awarded to me for some reasons, DH has obviously some serious problems to decide when the control over a province needs to be transferred)
    I think I know what happened, it's simple. For example you attacked Dunkirk from Bruges. You won the battle and your troop advanced towards Dunkirk while the French soldiers retreated. However, France already sent more troops to Dunkirk to resist your attack. Your troops arrive at Dunkirk first, but they are immediately attacked by the new French troops which were already advancing towards Dunkirk. Since basically this means that there are both German and French troops in the province, the controller of the province doesn't change for now. As soon as you win the defensive battle and the French soldiers stop attacking, you gain control of the province.
    I'm pretty sure it was the same in HOI2, I guess that you're witnessing this because there are more French counterattacks than HOI2.

  17. #237
    Evil Lawyer K W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhanun View Post
    Now, as Churchill would say, Germany gained its soft underbelly.
    Churchill is British. He knows how to use understatement.

    Quote Originally Posted by ^_AC_^ View Post
    I think I know what happened, it's simple. For example you attacked Dunkirk from Bruges. You won the battle and your troop advanced towards Dunkirk while the French soldiers retreat. However, France already sent more troops to Dunkirk to resist your attack. Your troops arrive at Dunkirk first, but they are immediately attacked by the new French troops which were already advancing towards Dunkirk. Since basically this means that there are both German and French troops in the province, the controller of the province doesn't change for now. As soon as you win the defensive battle and the French soldiers stop attacking, you gain control of the province.
    I'm pretty sure it was the same in HOI2, I guess that you're witnessing this because there are more French counterattacks than HOI2.
    OK, thanks for the explanation. Actually, if I think more about it, you may be right; I have some very shadowy memories that this happened in HOI 2, too. I will link to your explanation in the update to restore the reputation of DH's game engine.

    And perhaps an exclusive developer's comment on Italy's unwelcome entry into the Axis?
    If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. – George Orwell

  18. #238
    Well, from my personal point of view (I'm not speaking as DH developer) if you want Austria you need Italian consensus. And if after that Italy wants to join your war and add "several thousand dead" to be able to take its place at the peace table with you, how can you refuse it?

    Beside, do you really find doing Sealion gamey and not having Italy as your ally not gamey?

  19. #239
    Evil Lawyer K W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ^_AC_^ View Post
    Well, from my personal point of view (I'm not speaking as DH developer) if you want Austria you need Italian consensus.
    Which can be gained through the Anti-Comintern Pact and the Pact of Steel, not necessarily through an alliance.

    Quote Originally Posted by ^_AC_^ View Post
    And if after that Italy wants to join your war and add "several thousand dead" to be able to take its place at the peace table with you, how can you refuse it?
    Well, the first thing is that I won't allow Italy to take its place at the peace table with me anyway. Rather, as soon as the Allies and the Soviet Union are defeated, I intend to invade Italy to satisfy my sadistic cravings for retribution.

    And the second thing is that Italy doesn't wish to join "my" war. If it were only for this, I wouldn't have the slightest problem with Italy in my alliance. They intend something different by joining my alliance: To gain my support for their own wars ("This is a unique opportunity!"), which they will soon start in North Africa and the Balkans without asking me, because they know that, without my help, they would never succeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ^_AC_^ View Post
    Beside, do you really find doing Sealion gamey and not having Italy as your ally not gamey?
    It depends on how you define "gamey". For me, a gamey strategy would be a strategy that 1. favours me, 2. in an unrealistic way, 3. due to flaws or inconsistencies of the game engine. An invasion of the British Islands would favour me (check), would never be possible in reality with my current navy and air force (check), and would only be possible in the game by exploiting the British naval AI (check). Not having Italy in my alliance would favour me (check), but would be, while not probable, possible in reality (nay) and if it weren't for the event scripting, possible without abusing any game mechanisms (nay).

    However, I duly notice that you recognize at least that having Italy not in my alliance would be an advantage.
    If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. – George Orwell

  20. #240
    Second Lieutenant Sharky1510's Avatar
    Darkest HourMount & Blade: With Fire and SwordEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    125
    What's with the 'nay'?

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