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There is no republican movement from the Poles. This has already been said and yet you continue on with supporting them like they have initiated such a thing. If the South were to move to have their own independence again, would you support them and side with them? What of the Mexicans living in the Rio Grande? Would you support them if they moved to break that region away from the US once again? What gives you the right to support freedom movements abroad, but not for those within our borders? I am at least equal towards all.

- Vice-President Roderick Khur
 
I never stated there WAS a movement, I said IF there WAS. I suppose I can ask a reverse question: Do you think we should abandon all attempts at spreading our influence and Democracy over seas?

The United States is a Democracy, where all citizens have representation, even minority groups.
 
The obscurity of Polish culture is surpassed only by that of the basques why should a single Americain die to help these mongrols.
 
We have never attempted to spread our influence into Europe!! We should not be attempting to spread democracy to those who do not wish it as well. Who are we to say what someone in Germany or Greece or Portugal wants as a form of Government? Democracy does not always work, else every nation in the world would adopt it.

- Vice-President Roderick Khur
 
I have always have the notion that the former Polish Kingdom should be able to rise once again from the ashes. However, it is not our place to force a country upon a people, especially when that territory is inhabited by the natives of the country controlling their land. While it is our job to spread the American Dream of Freedom and Prosperity around the globe, we have NO business in making counties. The United States has created one country, our own. While the French helped us in our struggle, they did not start the conflict in hopes of creating a new nation! We started our own conflict. If we truly cared for the plight of the Polish people, we would begin to probe the German, Russian, and Austrian Empires to work on offering a more democratic process in their nation. Some things must be solved by war. This, however, is not one of them.

- Secretary of State David Hensdale
 
Thank you Mr. Hensdale, I agree completely, and that is my final word on my stance. It was unfortunate for someone to bring up a specific act for helping the Polish people.
 
I condemn Floyd Weavers economic plan! He wishes to destroy our economy!

Privatisation has ensured we are the strongest economy in the world. Why would anyone want to change that?
 
The obscurity of Polish culture is surpassed only by that of the basques why should a single Americain die to help these mongrols.

"I am Basque. My father was born in New York City mere weeks after his parents arrived from San Sebastian. Such views as yours were fought against in the Civil War, for after all, what were the blacks to the southerners but "mongrols" to be tamed and trained? You are a despicable man and deserve not the slightest countenance by any American concerned with the future of our nation.

Vice-President Khur, I find your attachment to the autocratic state which the Prussian monarchy has created to be most disturbing. America is a democracy, and our interest is the freedom of all people. We should not fight wars unless we are attacked, but we must, in all cases, encourage freedom and liberty abroad such as we have here. Though I have served alongside your these past four years, I can not support your bid due to this fault of your foreign policy. I believe that Mr. Terrence is the best person to represent the Federal Party in these elections and shall support him in any way possible."


- Attorney-General Erica Hayden-Vallejo
 
The obscurity of Polish culture is surpassed only by that of the basques why should a single Americain die to help these mongrols.

Ms. Vallejo (Hayden-Vallejo) is correct. Your statement is over-the-line and reminiscent of the reasoning for slavery. While I oppose intervening in the affairs of Russia, Germany, Austria, and Europe in general, I am completely opposed to dehumanizing, or declaring the inferiority) a race or nationality (which is why I'm also opposed to imperialism).

((But we're a Republic... not a democracy, a republic...))

And Mr. Howard is completely right about the economy.
 
((just to make it clear this is all roleplay))

Of course I apologize if my words crossed the line however my position of non interfearence in Polish affairs remains the same
 
(( That's a misnomer Riccardo - after all, the United States is a liberal democratic republic, and it pretty much invented the usage you are using for the term republic anyway, implying a constitutional democracy. Even if you separate the system inscribed in the Constitution and the accompanying philosophical underpinnings and call all that Liberal Democracy, the idea of calling a republic or a real republic or a constitutional republic a non-monarchy based on constitutional separation of powers as opposed to just an oligarchic non-monarchy like most previous republics prior to the founding of the US, was pretty much just coined - coined really not by the Founding Fathers, as they compared themselves to that oligarchic Roman Republic.

So the idea of the United States' constitutional republican system and ideal underpinnings occupying the long-standing term republic for that specific system is itself a construction that was invented over time to describe the US, or is more of a lazy habit of not wanting to specify and say "liberal democratic constitutional republic" or a "constitutional republic with a liberal democratic constitution".

And especially because the Founders were referring to the dangers of deferring to the state legislatures as "democracy" in the negative, it is both intellectually bankrupt and rather rude and partisan to assert that others are mischaracterizing the U.S. when they refer to it as a democracy as in a liberal democracy, as they are only referring to the institutions explicitly spelled out in the Constitution; as opposed to the idea of popular democracy, which had to develop its own name; or direct democracy, as is the generic intellectual term for what was meant when the Founders decried "democracy" - referring primarily to Athenian democracy, where a simple majority vote could bypass the judiciary if one such was in place at the time for all things, and so forth.

So you see, you just can't spout off things like the U.S. not being a democracy but a republic, in the sense you are using it, in OOC and not be seen as trying to start a fight; because you are deliberately saying something anyone with any basic education in history knows is incorrect in the sense that you are using it.

It's rather infuriating for you, who in character typically drives for the kind of things the Founders meant when they intoned democracy as if it were a curse word, to deliberately turn it around its head and try to use the out of context phrase as an argument against the very system the Founders put in place, liberal democracy.

The sheer objective fact is, the original intention of a majority of the relative Founding Fathers regarding the ratification of the Constitution was that "democracy" in the negative meant letting the states have too much autonomy, letting people exercise too much direct democracy and provincial representative democracy in the state legislatures, and when they said republic they meant letting people vote for representatives on the federal level who would draft legislation and enact it for the whole nation.

So when you use it to mean the exact opposite, and turn what is a neutral objective reality into a partisan point just by the fact that oh if it disagrees with what you are saying it must be a partisan disagreement, you are being incredibly rude and just asking for trouble.

So please refrain from painfully inaccurate hackneyed cliches, in OOC that is. Spout them as much as you want IC ))
 
(( That's a misnomer Riccardo - after all, the United States is a liberal democratic republic, and it pretty much invented the usage you are using for the term republic anyway, implying a constitutional democracy. Even if you separate the system inscribed in the Constitution and the accompanying philosophical underpinnings and call all that Liberal Democracy, the idea of calling a republic or a real republic or a constitutional republic a non-monarchy based on constitutional separation of powers as opposed to just an oligarchic non-monarchy like most previous republics prior to the founding of the US, was pretty much just coined - coined really not by the Founding Fathers, as they compared themselves to that oligarchic Roman Republic.

So the idea of the United States' constitutional republican system and ideal underpinnings occupying the long-standing term republic for that specific system is itself a construction that was invented over time to describe the US, or is more of a lazy habit of not wanting to specify and say "liberal democratic constitutional republic" or a "constitutional republic with a liberal democratic constitution".

And especially because the Founders were referring to the dangers of deferring to the state legislatures as "democracy" in the negative, it is both intellectually bankrupt and rather rude and partisan to assert that others are mischaracterizing the U.S. when they refer to it as a democracy as in a liberal democracy, as they are only referring to the institutions explicitly spelled out in the Constitution; as opposed to the idea of popular democracy, which had to develop its own name; or direct democracy, as is the generic intellectual term for what was meant when the Founders decried "democracy" - referring primarily to Athenian democracy, where a simple majority vote could bypass the judiciary if one such was in place at the time for all things, and so forth.

So you see, you just can't spout off things like the U.S. not being a democracy but a republic, in the sense you are using it, in OOC and not be seen as trying to start a fight; because you are deliberately saying something anyone with any basic education in history knows is incorrect in the sense that you are using it.

It's rather infuriating for you, who in character typically drives for the kind of things the Founders meant when they intoned democracy as if it were a curse word, to deliberately turn it around its head and try to use the out of context phrase as an argument against the very system the Founders put in place, liberal democracy.

The sheer objective fact is, the original intention of a majority of the relative Founding Fathers regarding the ratification of the Constitution was that "democracy" in the negative meant letting the states have too much autonomy, letting people exercise too much direct democracy and provincial representative democracy in the state legislatures, and when they said republic they meant letting people vote for representatives on the federal level who would draft legislation and enact it for the whole nation.

So when you use it to mean the exact opposite, and turn what is a neutral objective reality into a partisan point just by the fact that oh if it disagrees with what you are saying it must be a partisan disagreement, you are being incredibly rude and just asking for trouble.

So please refrain from painfully inaccurate hackneyed cliches, in OOC that is. Spout them as much as you want IC ))
((You know a few years down the line I am sure I will look back at your writing's and understand them clear as water, at the moment I am...just...dumbfounded))
 
((Thomas Jefferson: “A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.”

James Madison: "A pure democracy is a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person." (meaning, to me at least, that Democracies don't work on a grand scale)

John Adams: "Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide."

And I could probably find more.

If we were a Democracy, we would dissolve Congress, since it separates people from the president (who, for quite a while, they didn't vote for).

What exactly is you definition of Democracy, rather than a system where fifty plus one can oppress the minority. A Republic is founded on the rule of law, not the rule of men (another John Adams quote), and this one in particular was founded to protect minorities (even the slaves by virtue of the 3/5 law), and to ensure the federal government didn't gain too much power.

I'll leave it at that, because I don't want to get in trouble discussing the system of the American government.))
 
But of course we must discuss our politics and change them at the slightest change of decay. Hence our civil society develops
 
(Does it really matter guys? We aren't writing a dissertation here.)
 
(I read it. Its actually an interesting analysis of US politics. It's just completely off topic for the thread)
 
Hola mi amigos! Just on vacation... Hey, it's nice here... In another lifetime I would much like to be a citizen of this great land!

---Basilio Bautista---

((are you two arguing about something concrete or is it just what to call the USA's gov't? someone PM me to make sense of this.))
 
(( I was just pointing out that even that one first blithe comment Riccardo made is the same as saying "meat is murder" or some other completely personal-opinion subjective point, and has no place in the OOC comments of this thread. Why should he be able to get away with continuing to do that, when it is so disruptive? If he's going to use OOC to spread completely historically inaccurate propaganda, shouldn't someone correct it with coldly stated, apolitical and objective fact? The entire thing was framed in just asking him to decease, not asking him to accept my point.

He's politically sniping in OOC. ))
 
((I don't really mean to start a fight or anything, especially considering our previous history, but does it really matter? I'm sure Riccardo didn't mean anything by it, nor do I believe anyone would have really noticed or cared about it otherwise, and generally making long-winded speeches about that kind of thing serves to legitimize it more than anything else.

Really, I think we should just drop it and move on. Either way, no matter who's right or wrong, it's off-topic and doesn't really have any bearing.))