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Thread: Naval Plans for the World's Naval Powers

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBromgrev View Post
    Ports, without any modifiers from technology or ministers, can bring in 6 supplies per level. A regular 1944 infantry brigade eats up 0.9 supplies without any modifiers from leaders or ministers.

    So, since a level 10 port can bring in 60 supplies, that implies it can support at a minimum 66 infantry brigades, or 22 triangular infantry divisions with no support brigades. Since you'll likely have supply lowering leaders and ministers, and the port efficiency techs researched, you can support quite a few more troops through that one port than the minimum.
    Assuming he is only using triangle-infantry, and not counting the supply tax that starts getting incurred as he moves out from the port's province
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  2. #62
    Field Marshal misterbean's Avatar
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    my standard inf build is 3inf/1art, so I'm still looking at the entire Heeresgruppe Nord (RL Barby), more or less? now I know why my US invasion never went anywhere. could have send more troops!!! and my save is long gone by now!!!!

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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdityaMookerjee View Post
    . . . Also, defeating Great Britain, would simply send the British Government in Exile to, say, India. Germany was doomed to fail, because she did not have the resources to fight the war.
    Is exactly what happened in a recent MP game I played in. Occupying the UK was only half of the problem, defending that island while fighting the Soviets in the east proved more than what the German player could handle.

  4. #64
    Fleet Admiral Of Never Weres TZoli's Avatar
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    Soviet Battleships:
    4 Sovietsky Soyuz (Project 23)
    4 Improved Sovietsky Soyuz (Project 23bis)
    4 Project 24
    4 Project 25 Light BB / BC
    2 Kronshtadt BC
    7 Stalingrad BC
    Unknown numbers of Project 21 and 45, ships.

    Japan the Peace Goddess Battleships:
    "Japan hope to postpone any war with the United States or Britain until around 1950. A total of eleven battleships were planned, five original Yamato class with all main battery forward, two enlarged Yamato type (hull nos 798-799) and four still larger battleships with eight or nine 51cm guns.
    By maintaining peace through intimidation, these ships would therefore be "Peace Goddesses of the Pacific." At the time this plan was formulated, it was before carrier aircraft had become large enough and strong enough to carry the payloads needed to sink battleships. Therefore, it was not an unreasonable plan, just obsolete the day YAMATO and then MUSASHI hit the water.
    Japan believed that the US would be about five years behind, they would adopt 18inch in about 1945 at which time 20 inch would be placed on the original five YAMATO class and the others would have had them upon completion. Of course, fast carriers (or slow ones for that matter) could strike at ranges that even 20inch guns could not even come close to. So much for Peace Goddesses."
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  5. #65
    Field Marshal TheBromgrev's Avatar
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    Source?
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    My information thread about ww2 naval expansion for the world's naval powers, large and small. Last update October 25, 2014; corrected the Japanese entry.

  6. #66
    Fleet Admiral Of Never Weres TZoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBromgrev View Post
    Source?
    About the soviet battleships:
    A russian book:

    https://rs602dt.rapidshare.com/#!dow...AF55874CCA8D50

    put the .pdf extension to read it.

    About Peace Goddesses tactic, just search google or/and here:
    http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/nav...s-battleships/
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  7. #67
    Second Lieutenant DazzaLCFC's Avatar
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    GB fleets

    Any chance of the same info for the UK? I am about to play as the UK from 1936. I remember something about 'we want 8 and we wont wait 'with reference to 4 BB's and 4 BC.
    If it bleeds, we can kill it.

  8. #68
    Field Marshal TheBromgrev's Avatar
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    But of course! I think I'm missing 3, possibly 4 countries here and I was going to do the UK next. However, due to the sheer size of the RN it'll take me a while to compile all the info. I mean, it took me about 4 hours to do the French entry (I think I'm missing some subs too...) and about 7 hours for the Japanese one. When I find time (aka get bored ) and make the RN entry, I'll work it in chunks, starting with ships completed in '36 and filling in the other categories later as I have time. As you've no doubt noticed, there are quite a few discrepancies between the vanilla 1936 OOBs and what I have listed in here.
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  9. #69
    OT iconoclast StephenT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DazzaLCFC View Post
    I am about to play as the UK from 1936. I remember something about 'we want 8 and we wont wait 'with reference to 4 BB's and 4 BC.
    That was in 1908-09.

  10. #70
    Looking forward to the UK lists dont worry about boredom its just a state of mind

  11. #71
    Fleet Admiral Of Never Weres TZoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DazzaLCFC View Post
    Any chance of the same info for the UK? I am about to play as the UK from 1936. I remember something about 'we want 8 and we wont wait 'with reference to 4 BB's and 4 BC.
    Those were the 4 G3 and 4 N3 BC's and BB's before the Washington Naval Treaty
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  12. #72
    OT iconoclast StephenT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZoli View Post
    Those were the 4 G3 and 4 N3 BC's and BB's before the Washington Naval Treaty
    Actually, no they weren't . Not in 1908/09.

    In 1908, the British Admiralty asked Parliament to authorise funds for six dreadnoughts to be built in 1909. The Government said they could only afford four. At this point information was leaked to the press that Germany was secretly building more dreadnoughts than they'd publicly admitted, and by 1912 would have caught up with Britain. This caused a national scandal, and the slogan "We want eight and we won't wait!" was coined by either the Conservative Party or the Navy League over the winter of 1908/09.

    In the end the 1909 Programme did indeed contain eight dreadnoughts - six BBs and two BCs. These were the Colossus and Hercules with 12" guns, the Orion, Conqueror, Monarch and Thunderer with 13.5" guns, and the Lion and Princess Royal battlecruisers with 13.5" guns. All eight fought at Jutland, but were scrapped after WW1.

    Oh, and the leak to the press? Was a lie. The Germans weren't secretly building more dreadnoughts after all.

  13. #73
    Fleet Admiral Of Never Weres TZoli's Avatar
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    Oh I see, but the numbers adds up in 1920-21 at first the admirality orderd 3-3 of these new ships than changed to 4-4 and actually none were built, or to be precise 2 were built the Nelson and Rodney which were design O3.
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  14. #74
    Reichsmarschall Paradox Dev Team Darkrenown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBromgrev View Post
    Also, the detailed tech components that determine what model your ship is in-game can be found in the folder ../HOI3/units/models, or in ../HOI3/mod/mod_name/units/models if you're playing a mod that uses the mod folder. That folder contains all of the models for each country, so if you want to know what techs you need to research to build the exact Vittorio Veneto-class BBs for Italy, you'd open up ITA - ships.txt and research what the battleship.4 entry says. You can find the model names in the file ../HOI3/localisation/models.csv. Note that there's a typo for the Italian battleship I just mentioned; it's listed as a level 3 BB in the localization file, but a level 4 BB in the model file (both start counting at 0, so those are not the same!). Way to go PI's quality assurance person
    Few things:
    1) Bug reports are great, but if you want us to see them, please post them in the bug reports forum, although without the eyeroll for preference.
    2) The Vittorio Veneto class was also known as the Littorio class.
    3) This in fact works correctly ingame:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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  15. #75
    Field Marshal TheBromgrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrenown View Post
    Few things:
    1) Bug reports are great, but if you want us to see them, please post them in the bug reports forum, although without the eyeroll for preference.
    2) The Vittorio Veneto class was also known as the Littorio class.
    3) This in fact works correctly ingame:
    1) I didn't consider a bad model to be a huge bug, hence why I never reported it. Most people won't know the difference anyway.
    2) Correct, the class was known by both names, which makes it tricky to just pick one for a game. The Italian Bolzano heavy cruiser is another example of a ship that's hard to place in a class.
    3) I'm the SQA person for a US military jet engine. A state of the art one that isn't being produced yet. For more info, read the outdated wiki entry for it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General...lls-Royce_F136 Anyway, my point is, when I see silly things like that what I described I get irritated. No offense to you or the rest of PI, it's just something I do, and I've developed a massive hate for Apple and Microsoft products as a result. That said, it doesn't keep me from using those products, mainly because there's no alternative or I find them better than the alternatives.

    Oh, and I didn't get the same result as what you have in your screenshot, because the comment for an Italian battleship.3 says it's a Littorio BB in the Italian ship model file, while the actual localization file says a battleship.4 is a Littorio. Now, I haven't tried 2.04f yet, but in 2.04d that was definitely the case. I won't claim something is true unless I've experienced it, and in this particular case I checked what happened in the official game before making that claim.

    But, as I said in point #1, I didn't feel it was a big deal, as the vast majority of players wouldn't know the difference. Some would, and they're the types that would make a but report that you would ignore, since you've ignored all "the picture for model xxx is wrong!lol!" type bug reports since the game was initially released and this is the same type of bug.

    Anyway, I'm glad you took a look at this thread. I have no clue if you read every post, but if you did I hope you enjoyed the info I presented and hopefully learned something. That was the whole point of the thread anyway, to educate HOI3 players and challenge them to see if they could do what wasn't possible historically.

    The info is also useful for modders who want to make a historical game by teaching the AI to focus on its navies more, and which ship types it should focus on. Slan has already used the data I've introduced so far to teach the AI how to build its navies before WW2 starts in the HPP mod, which has led to some very realistic results lately.
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    My information thread about ww2 naval expansion for the world's naval powers, large and small. Last update October 25, 2014; corrected the Japanese entry.

  16. #76
    Lt. General jamhaw's Avatar
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    This is very interesting, thank you for posting this stuff!
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  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by silenced View Post
    I'm pretty sure that building some fast carriers to spot convoys and then retreat and let the subs do their work would have been very successful, but only a genius would have thought of such an option at these times.
    Actually the Japanese tried that, and made a submarine aircraft carrier codename I400.
    So they were genious. Oh well they invent the most incredible things still, like robots.

  18. #78
    Second Lieutenant DazzaLCFC's Avatar
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    Thanks in advance for the coming info on the RN
    If it bleeds, we can kill it.

  19. #79
    Captain tmorrow911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silenced View Post
    Whole WW-II is full of strange decisions and awkward moves made by Germany. As clever and modern the germans may have acted from time to time, as utterly naive they've been in other situations. They often chose the risky way when it wasn't neccessary and were overly cautious when it wasn't required.

    Regarding naval warfare, well, that wasn't something Germany had that much experience. While everything evolved in the naval warfare the german leaders were still stuck in WW-I, where the 'bigger bang' got the success.
    I'm pretty sure that building some fast carriers to spot convoys and then retreat and let the subs do their work would have been very successful, but only a genius would have thought of such an option at these times.
    ANY German naval activity would have been fundamentally problematic. Land-based aircraft will ALWAYS trump carrier-based aviation and, given the geography, the British would never have any difficulty tracking down and slaughtering German surface naval forces with land-based aircraft and surface naval forces. Carriers, even scout carriers, are big targets.

    On those occasions when I play the Germans in HOI, I never build ANY surface units. The resource savings makes a great contribution to a higher probability of German victory.
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  20. #80
    Reichsmarschall Paradox Dev Team Darkrenown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBromgrev View Post
    Oh, and I didn't get the same result as what you have in your screenshot, because the comment for an Italian battleship.3 says it's a Littorio BB in the Italian ship model file, while the actual localization file says a battleship.4 is a Littorio. Now, I haven't tried 2.04f yet, but in 2.04d that was definitely the case. I won't claim something is true unless I've experienced it, and in this particular case I checked what happened in the official game before making that claim.
    ...
    Anyway, I'm glad you took a look at this thread. I have no clue if you read every post, but if you did I hope you enjoyed the info I presented and hopefully learned something. That was the whole point of the thread anyway, to educate HOI3 players and challenge them to see if they could do what wasn't possible historically.
    I dunno, I have the same battleship.3/battleship.4 as you and yet it shows correctly ingame. When I have time I will look at an older version and see what it's like there. But yes, enjoyed thread.
    Relentless madman.

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