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Thread: PON Developer's Diary 11 - Revolts

  1. #1
    Major PhilThib's Avatar
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    PON Developer's Diary 11 - Revolts

    Revolts and other public reactions are bound to be one of the key aspects of any realistic historical grand strategy game. In Pride of Nations, we were faced with the additional difficulty of having revolts arise from different sources, occur for different reasons, and behave altogether in very different ways.

    So, we opted to include four different types of revolts:

    • Tribal Revolts: occur in colonial territories, usually with the local natives rising against the colonial power;
    • Irredentist/Nationalist Revolts: occur in non-colonial territories. Their main characteristic is that they are strongly tied to the loyalty (i.e. nationality) towards the occupier or owner of the region (from the rebel’s point of view, as their nationality is different from that of the occupying power). Unrest will last until the nationalists’ demands are satisfied (or crushed) - a new nation is created by the liberation of its capital, or the region can be attached to another nation of the same nationality;
    • Partisans: they use the same basis (loyalty), but we wanted their presence to be the result of an invasion of the mother country. They will fight on even if the capital is liberated, remaining until a peace is signed;
    • Social Uprisings: special revolts where the population rises against the State, which means that the owner of the region is of the same nationality as those rebelling.

    How powerful will the revolts be and how will they behave? We classified them into three different types: Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary.

    • Primary revolts are the strongest, usually occurring in several regions at once.
    • Secondary revolts occur when there is another revolt underway. These uprisings are weaker and occur in several regions at once, but they are usually linked to the regions of the pre-existing revolt (this is a kind of reinforcement).

    For the two cases above, we set a 10% chance per turn to trigger revolt reinforcements. We also use the concept of force pools (FP) for revolts as well, and each FP was made individually for each rebellious nation in the game, whether they are tribal or nationalist. So in theory, those uprisings can grow bigger and bigger until they deplete their force pool. However, we wanted the force pool to be used in a ‘standard’ way for Primary and Secondary revolts, meaning that it can be depleted and no more forces raised, so as to keep an endless supply of revolutionaries from springing up in a given region turn after turn.

    Also, covering special cases, if the faction of the mutinous units is not at war with the nation that owns the region, the units will be given to the REB (Rebels) faction, which is conveniently at war with everybody all the time.
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    • The last type, Tertiary, is a special case: it is only used in the event of a Social Uprising. These revolts only occur in one region at a time, and they usually only affect the population in the national regions of the nation (i.e. home). If needed, Social Uprisings will give units to the REB faction, and use a special force pool of units (either Urban or Peasant rebels) which is not limited, thus forcing the player to react before the situation quickly degenerates.


    Where?
    As said, Primary and Secondary revolts can and will occur at several places at once, according to a region list established for each potentially rebellious nation. There will be a revolt center, which is the region that has failed (or succeeded, depending on the side you are on) the revolt test. On average, all regions within a six-region range that are the same nationality as the rebels will be tested for also being part of the revolution. The result is that the player never really knows where the revolt will burst forth and how powerful it will be from the start, as nationality percentage also influences the initial rebel levies.

    We have designed a filter on the game map to show hotspots, so players can be aware of potential problems.

    In addition, and this is specific for Tribal Revolts, the player’s colonial actions will strongly influence local natives’ revolts: some buildings may lower local risks in colonial regions, but other buildings or colonial actions (e.g., sending Missionaries) may increase it.

    Victory and Defeat?
    A Tribal or Nationalist Revolt will win when they hold the capital region (which requires us to define a capital region for each in the database) and possess at least a certain percentage of regions within the list of regions around the capital (at an approximate distance of six regions).

    To properly render some national struggles for unity, we decided that in the case of Nationalist Revolts, the rebels would count the capital and other regions as owned if a friendly nation of the same nationality also controlled them.

    Conversely, rebellions will fail if rebels control less than a certain percentage of the regions in their region list. The government’s repressive efforts would be taken as having succeeded, and all remaining rebel units would be removed. But it could well restart later if the conditions that created it are still present.
    Philippe Thibaut
    Paradox France
    Producer

  2. #2
    Excellent! I guess 'Social Uprisings' are revolutions like 1848 if you don't keep you lower classes happy?

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    It is always great to look at Rebels with a Cause !

    The "manpower" pool for revolters is a simple yet excellent idea which could be applied to other Paradox Games (EUIII and Victoria II, I am looking at you !)
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    Taught by experience, I`m trying not to get too enthusiastic over the game releases when reading their DDs, but with PoN that task is getting harder and harder.
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    First Lieutenant nibelungvalesti's Avatar
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    how easy is it to trigger rebellions? i wouldn't want this to turn into a rebel fest like vicky 2.

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    Sounds like a solid system to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nibelungvalesti View Post
    how easy is it to trigger rebellions? i wouldn't want this to turn into a rebel fest like vicky 2.
    I agree with this. Vicky 2 is a little too crazy rebellous. It has been tuned down with patches but communists rebels for exemple seem way too frequent... anyway the point is : it seems difficult to realise a "fun" rebel system. It is usually more an annoyance than a plus. The real interest is to make revolutions and new countries possible, and possibly had a level of depth and flavor to the game, but as long as I am a huge fan of micro-management, rebel crushing seems plain boring and repetitive to me. I would suggest (Which seems to be the case in PON) that revolts are more "flavored" : less frequent, but stronger, with linked generic possible events (army passing to the rebellion, foreign intervention, rebel leader assination...), and with leaders.

    That said... so long so good . Thanks for the DD !

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    Major PhilThib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibelungvalesti View Post
    how easy is it to trigger rebellions? i wouldn't want this to turn into a rebel fest like vicky 2.
    In fact I'd like to answer the other way round: how easy is it to prevent rebellions ! In the game, your population discontent will grow automatically over time (and ultimately generate rebellions) if you do not take necessary measures, such as providing with adequate supply of goods to meet their needs, passing reforms and law to quell unrest, avoid losing wars, etc... If you take care of all this, there should not be many......except of course we also keep a few things beyond your 'total' control, such as revolts created by incidents or events that are totally unexpected...
    Philippe Thibaut
    Paradox France
    Producer

  9. #9
    So Garibaldi's Thousand would be nationalist rebels? But they would be Italian rebels rising in Italian countries... Or would they not be rebels, just an event?

  10. #10
    First Lieutenant HappyBanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilThib View Post
    passing reforms and law
    Hehe I like that... Maybe an upcoming DD on that ?

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    can you support rebels in another country?

    for example as russia can I encourage or support balkan rebels in the OE?

    because this is what I really miss in Vic2
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  12. #12
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    Are labour relations and strikes in at all?
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by demanvanwezel View Post
    can you support rebels in another country?

    for example as russia can I encourage or support balkan rebels in the OE?

    because this is what I really miss in Vic2
    As of now I don't think so, although I'm not the one making the data... But I know that this is quite possible with the use of Regional Decisions to do that (RGDs are also a great system that we should talk about one day).

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Evans View Post
    Are labour relations and strikes in at all?
    Your national population has a contentment level. Depending of this level, there are 10 behaviors possibilities, from 'nothing special' to 'enthusiasm' to 'strikes', 'armed revolts', etc. So if you don't keep your peasants and/or workers happy, they will first demonstrate, then be on strike (2 flavors), then starts to destroy some stockpiles and finally take arms against you.

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    As far as I know Russia helped Bulgarians and UK helped greeks for their nationalist revolts against Ottomans. I think you shouldn't ignore other nation's effect on these kind of revolts in such a realistic strategy game like this.

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    Major PhilThib's Avatar
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    This is done also via the assistance of the game (historical) events
    Philippe Thibaut
    Paradox France
    Producer

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