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Thread: Building a Nation - an Interactive British AAR

  1. #1581
    Colonel oberstbrooksy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheExecuter View Post
    Uhrm...I don't think so. Resorting to violence should be something FORCED upon us, not the other way 'round...
    Well their revolt risk is at 100%, so its a waiting game.

  2. #1582
    Share Our Wealth! Seek75's Avatar
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    It is only a matter of time before the revolution spreads to Britain and the communists here revolt. We must crush the rebellion, but once the bloodshed is over liberty must be restored, for we will only endanger ourselves for a future revolution if the right continues to attempt to squelch the left.
    A rebel without a cause.

  3. #1583
    Lt. General TheExecuter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seek75 View Post
    It is only a matter of time before the revolution spreads to Britain and the communists here revolt. We must crush the rebellion, but once the bloodshed is over liberty must be restored, for we will only endanger ourselves for a future revolution if the right continues to attempt to squelch the left.
    Continues?

    Mwha? The right has only been in power a scant few years. If you feel yourselves hard done by, I refer you to the previous administrations (Liberals, Labour, etc.) as well...

    Scapegoating an ideology over the growing pains of the industrial revolution is simplifying matters way too much, wouldn't you say?
    Last edited by TheExecuter; 24-05-2011 at 22:27.
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    There is no way to peace along the way of safety. For peace must be dared, it is itself the great venture and can never be safe. Peace is the opposite of security. To demand guarantees is to want to protect oneself. Peace means giving oneself completely to God's commandment, wanting no security, but in faith and obedience laying the destiny of the nations in the hand of almighty God, not trying to direct it for selfish purposes. Battles are won, not with weapons, but with God. They are won when the way leads to the cross.

  4. #1584
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    Our brothers in Austria and Turkey succeeded in throwing off the shackles of the oppressive monarchs and their lackeys. Hurrah to them! With our Republic becoming evermore tyrannical under the disgusting reign of the NCP, it is only a matter of time until the Revolution comes to Britain. Down with the bourgeoisie, and down with the dictatorship of the NCP!

  5. #1585
    Lt. General TheExecuter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konnigratz View Post
    Our brothers in Austria and Turkey succeeded in throwing off the shackles of the oppressive monarchs and their lackeys. Hurrah to them! With our Republic becoming evermore tyrannical under the disgusting reign of the NCP, it is only a matter of time until the Revolution comes to Britain. Down with the bourgeoisie, and down with the dictatorship of the NCP!
    ?

    Dictatorship?

    The logic in this post is...uhrm...there most be a nice way to say this...indicative?
    The Last Mission A Love Story

    There is no way to peace along the way of safety. For peace must be dared, it is itself the great venture and can never be safe. Peace is the opposite of security. To demand guarantees is to want to protect oneself. Peace means giving oneself completely to God's commandment, wanting no security, but in faith and obedience laying the destiny of the nations in the hand of almighty God, not trying to direct it for selfish purposes. Battles are won, not with weapons, but with God. They are won when the way leads to the cross.

  6. #1586
    And behold! The oppressed masses shall throw away their chains; the very ground shall shake as the workers march upon the bastions of imperialist capitalism! The era of the oppressor is no more, for now, the common man has risen!

    ... *cough*

    So, anyway. Absolutely stellar to hear about the successful revolutions of our fellow labourers: Britain will surely be next, and it can hardly wait. We have already clearly seen what manner of oppression a right-winged rule brings, so there can hardly be any supporters left. Still, if possible, I urge my comrades not to arm themselves yet - If victory can be achieved through peaceful means, that will be preferable. We shan't forget Liberté in our search for Egalité, shall we?

  7. #1587
    Lt. General TheExecuter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonstruck View Post
    Still, if possible, I urge my comrades not to arm themselves yet - If victory can be achieved through peaceful means, that will be preferable.
    Hear! Hear!
    The Last Mission A Love Story

    There is no way to peace along the way of safety. For peace must be dared, it is itself the great venture and can never be safe. Peace is the opposite of security. To demand guarantees is to want to protect oneself. Peace means giving oneself completely to God's commandment, wanting no security, but in faith and obedience laying the destiny of the nations in the hand of almighty God, not trying to direct it for selfish purposes. Battles are won, not with weapons, but with God. They are won when the way leads to the cross.

  8. #1588
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheExecuter View Post
    Continues?

    Mwha? The right has only been in power a scant few years. If you feel yourselves hard done by, I refer you to the previous administrations (Liberals, Labour, etc.) as well...

    Scapegoating an ideology over the growing pains of the industrial revolution is simplifying matters way too much, wouldn't you say?
    I never said that they had been attempting to do it for very long. Excuse me if I happen to find personal liberties such as freedom of speech to be a valuable thing that should not be taken away, no matter who's taking it from who and for how long.
    A rebel without a cause.

  9. #1589
    God of the Mega Campaign Moderator Mr. Capiatlist's Avatar
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    I believe that it is time to grab my gun and march on down to Londontown (to fight the NCP).
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  10. #1590
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    The Germans have shown that this "revolution" can be stopped. We must not follow the actions of Austria and France. Swift action must be taken in the form of the German Method!! Crush these communist scum before they bring down the Republic we fought so hard to build!!

  11. #1591
    ...the republic which was formed as the result of a series of revolts against a tyrant? History repeats itself, as always.

    Our republic was formed because of the poor conditions of the working classes. They pleaded for reform time and time again, yet were always denied. When they spoke their mind, they were silenced. Finally, it came to outright battles between the workers and the army, and the people began to once more take control of their lives.

    Now, replace 'Our republic' with 'The future socialist republic', change a few tenses, et voila - Perfect description of the current situation.
    Last edited by Moonstruck; 25-05-2011 at 02:57.

  12. #1592
    Colonel oberstbrooksy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonstruck View Post
    ...the republic which was formed as the result of a series of revolts against a tyrant? History repeats itself, as always.
    No, it was formed as a revolt against the conditions in labour ad manufacturing.....

  13. #1593
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonstruck View Post
    ...the republic which was formed as the result of a series of revolts against a tyrant? History repeats itself, as always.
    We could say the same about the American South, and yet most of the people here subscribe to the opinion that they're nothing more than a bunch of dirty slaveholders.

    Rebellion can be just as wrong as it can be right. Though I am incredibly critical of the regressive tax and the ban on certain pieces of literature, this does not justify a rebellion which will only end in bloodshed and more misery for all parties involved. This is a republic based on democratic principles, after all, and therefore we can solve our problems at the ballot box rather than at the end of a musket.
    Last edited by Seek75; 25-05-2011 at 03:30.
    A rebel without a cause.

  14. #1594
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    Quote Originally Posted by King50000 View Post
    The Germans have shown that this "revolution" can be stopped. We must not follow the actions of Austria and France. Swift action must be taken in the form of the German Method!! Crush these communist scum before they bring down the Republic we fought so hard to build!!
    Germany has shown that they can stop -a- revolution. And to do so they had to brutally murder thousands of their own people. Are these the ideals the Republic is founded on? Murder of the common man, in favour of keeping the entrenched elite in power?

  15. #1595
    Major Rogov's Avatar

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    If the NCP is elected on a platform of the German method, the workers would have the right to protect themselves.

    If the Socialists merely fail to win the election and someone NOT intent on wiping them out and hanging their leaders gets elected, you are correct that no they do not have a right to use force.

    This is a republic and even if the form of government is to be changed, as the Socialists have suggested, it must be done in a legal manner.
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    There are two ideas of government. There are those who believe that, if you will only legislate to make the well-to-do prosperous, their prosperity will leak through on those below. The democratic idea, however, has been that if you legislate to make the masses prosperous, their prosperity will find its way up through every class which rests up on them. - William Jennings Bryan (1896)

  16. #1596
    Field Marshal King50000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konnigratz View Post
    Germany has shown that they can stop -a- revolution. And to do so they had to brutally murder thousands of their own people. Are these the ideals the Republic is founded on? Murder of the common man, in favour of keeping the entrenched elite in power?
    No they are not, but what choice do we have after the Liberals have forced through their low taxes for the rich and high taxes for the poor? The Liberals have shown what side they are on and have nearly plunged us into civil war. The Labor party will not be able to contain the people forever, eventually the flood that is a communist revolution will come rushing down, and if we do not start draining this flood through levees and rivers now, we shall all be swept away in its carnage.

  17. #1597
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    Or a benevolent dictator might show up, run a centrist/realpolitick government, and only use the government to supress armed insurrectionaries - Right and Left - not political parties advocating revolution nor striking trade unionists.

    That kind of thing has been known to happen once in a while in politically unstable republics splitting at the seams between left and right.
    Dio Guerrero from Arica (b. 1836), Communist, democrat, Resistance fighter in ThunderHawk's "Shadow of the Andes" AAR

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    There are two ideas of government. There are those who believe that, if you will only legislate to make the well-to-do prosperous, their prosperity will leak through on those below. The democratic idea, however, has been that if you legislate to make the masses prosperous, their prosperity will find its way up through every class which rests up on them. - William Jennings Bryan (1896)

  18. #1598
    A revolution against a democratic state is never legitimate. If the people have grievances they should show it at the ballot box, not by trying to overthrow the elected representatives of the majority of the population. Nor should they take control over private property by force, as they have already been trying to do in some factories. Such behavior can not be justified.
    That said, the Tories have been acting irresponsibly by provoking the current unrest and deserve a large part of the blame. The situation must be disarmed by political reforms, primarily by restoring the freedom of the press.

  19. #1599
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    Comrade workers! Karl Marx teaches us to learn from history. History has shown, in the French, American and British revolutions, that the opressed masses have a right to revolt against an unjust government. History has shown us not only that it's right to revolt, but a revolution of the powerless people can succeed against the repression of the powerful elites. Recent events in Austro-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire have shown us what happens if the working people are too harshly opressed by backwards governments.

    However, history has also shown us that the bourgoisie and their allies in the old aristocracy have no mercy and no restraint when they feel threatened. The martyrs of the Manhattan Commune was a glorious example of revolt, but a failure, and an important historic lesson. It shows us that if we are not ready to protect ourselves, the ruling classes will slaughter us without remorse. It shows us that even though we can liberate isolated areas, no matter how important they be, but lack a nation-wide organization, we will be besieged and crushed.

    The apalling crimes against humanity perpetrated by the German Empire and it's so-called "method", teaches partly the same lesson: this capitalist system will not hesitate to slaughter anyone who threatens the privileges of the ruling classes. They will not hesitate to resort to bloody repression without provocation.

    Comrade workers! There are a number of conclusions to draw from this. The massacres in Germany teaches us to be prepared, to never trust a government that does not represent the class interest of the workers. Thus, we must arm ourselves, and organize cells of the RFB in every workplace, in every housing block, in the housing barracks of the rural workers. If the extreme-rightists in government seek to destroy liberty and institute yet another massacre, we should have plans to fortify and defend ourselves, to seize important supplies, and to link up with comrades in nearby areas, to recapture the republic, restore democracy and crush the reactionaries.

    However, the lesson of the Manhattan Commune teaches us to be patient. It teaches us to avoid any rash action until the time is right. It teaches us that if we do not have the majority of the common people on our side, we lack the moral authority as well as the logistical capacity to survive a sustained fight against the government. Thus, we must remain peaceful unless attacked. We must not rise up in arms against a democratic system that respects our rights. As long as censorship is repealed, as long as democracy continues, as long as the government helps institute reforms to protect the masses of the working class, we should respect and support the system. We should use our organization to campaign against the ruling classes and their threats of repression, in favour of a civilized system where the working class is treated with respect and have humane living conditions.

    If we manage to be strong enough to deter any attempt at destroying democracy and instituting a massacre on us, we might be able to avoid yet another bloody civil war in our time. If we get a reasonable, responsible government, that stops regressive taxes, ensures safety for the unemployed, stops the industrial failure of the laissez-faire government, and protects free speech, tensions might dissipate. The socialists will promise to do this, and hopefully, labour and the liberals will see reason and agree to such terms, in order to protect peace and democracy in our Republic. However, if the polarization worsens and the ruling classes continue on their path towards dictatorship, we shall be prepared, and we shall fight until the last man.

    OOC: Seriously, in game terms, the only way to avoid a revolution would be to lower taxes on the poor, and to institute reforms ASAP. No wonder there's high militancy when there's high taxes, high unemployment, and high reform desire. oberstbrooksy says that it's a waiting game, but reforms is a safe and effective way to quickly lower militancy.
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  20. #1600
    Lt. General atomicsoda's Avatar
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    What is needed is not violent repression but immediate social reforms and government intervention to reduce unemployment. Hopefully a resurgent Labour Party can come into power to deliver these reforms and convince the masses to lay down their arms. What is needed is democratic social reform not an overthrow of the Republic
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