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Rogov the elections are over you don't need to continue the relentless ideology now. However feel free to have a PM war :p
 
How's the update going?
 
No cos a) I'm independent liberal voter b) if there was no state intervention in economy AT ALL, everything would be better, I just defend that minimum wages are counter productive for the welfare of teh workers and the capitalists, as teh meritocratic system that runs capitalism is destroyed as teh state makes the capitalist have to pay more to less productive workers and less to the most productive workers.

{{OOC: I'm a classical liberal IRL but not that much}}
 
Although I firmly believe we must establish shorter work days so the workers are able to live better lives and actually know their families, Labour has actually made the first step, and with their next term in power will lower it even further-- although not excellent to lower it slowly over time, it's far better than anything the Conservatives or Liberals would ever do. An 8 hour work day is not worth the cost of the freedoms which the BNU would revoke from the people of this country.
BNU won't take away British freedom. These are measures to protect Britain against our enemies outside and inside of the country.
 
Let the Socialists have their moment in the sun- it won't take long for the people to see what their lofty rhetoric really amounts to. Soon enough we will have a party in power that seeks to secure Britain's position as the preeminent economic and military power in the world, rather than one that would use our fair island as a petri dish for their radical social experiments.
 
Invest more of what? You cannot credit a human being for natural capital (land, minerals, etc.).

It is completely unreasonable that the person who just happens to be handling lump sums be presumed the rightful owner or creator of those sums. Conservatives would have the bank teller claim my pay as his own, after all that's all a capitalist does - manage wealth that doesn't belong to him. The natural resources that belong to all mankind, the product produced by laborers, etc.

I see...property rights are not legitimate, eh comrade?
 
I'm well aware that you believe in unlimited state sponsored theft, "comrade" - morally, and in terms of natural law as per liberal principles, the factories and the farmlands belong to the factory workers and the farmers. That moral calculation of productivity, that value of labor, must be included in any calculations of taxation, welfare, and economic regulation.

Simply put, the factory owner is exercising a priviledge and does not have unlimited say in how he uses that factory - as it is his by government decree and the workers by natural law and by action of use and productivity.

I'm simply asking you to be more aware that what you believe is your natural right is in fact state robbery, and to have a kinder view of graduated tax on property and the welfare state (as ways to compensate for this state robbery that is land ownership) accordingly.
 
Plea to draw votes from Labour to British Union:

How can we trust Labour when it allies yet again with the liberals? The liberals won't vote for any progress as minimum wage, and demand reductions of working class goals such as the 14 hour work day instead of the 8 hour work day. BNU will never vote for a watered down compromise, you can be sure of that.
If we want true progress, we cannot compromise our most important selling points in order to be in the government. Any dissatisfied Labour voters, Please cross the benches and join our third way: British Union. For Britain! For Progress!

(In the game: a socialist faction would still vote for more social reforms, and the fascist one only if they are in charge. We have more chance of actually forcing through reform if we get a black/red coalition. It doesn't have to be like Mussolini. It can also be Peronist?)
 
I'd gladly settle for 10 hours, 8 to 6 is hardly any worse than 9 to 5

OOC: don't take this the wrong way but I can't tell if you're serious or not about this. Having done +12 hour shifts in manual labor I can tell you that I honestly have no idea how people ever did shifts of over 14 hours on a regular basis without dying of exhaustion!
 
OOC: don't take this the wrong way but I can't tell if you're serious or not about this. Having done +12 hour shifts in manual labor I can tell you that I honestly have no idea how people ever did shifts of over 14 hours on a regular basis without dying of exhaustion!

And 6 days a week to that. People did die, though. Life expectancy in the working class must've been 20-30 or even 40 years clsoer during the early industrial years compared to now.
 
OOC: don't take this the wrong way but I can't tell if you're serious or not about this. Having done +12 hour shifts in manual labor I can tell you that I honestly have no idea how people ever did shifts of over 14 hours on a regular basis without dying of exhaustion!

Don't take this the wrong way...but generally clerks in the US work 10 hours per day...and during exceptional periods, 16-20 hours per day...in the enlightened 21st century.

They SAY its only 8 hours, but the workload is such that longer hours is expected and required to be successful...
 
The Election of 1864

The election of 1864 saw a significant restructuring amongst the Parliamentary parties. As the Liberals continued to flounder the Tories moved more towards the political centre in an attempt to take advantage of the collapsing Liberal support and compensate for the loss of the support of the far right – which was expected to go to the recently formed British National Union. With all the other parties readjusting to a new political landscape the Labour party remained concerned with one thing – staying in government so that their program of reform could continue unhindered.

ELECTIONSTARTPAD-6.jpg


The election provided what was perhaps the worst disaster for the old political establishment in its history. Disraeli had led the Tories to disaster in 1858 when his party won just 139 seats, when he lost another 12 to the BNU these mistakes were forgiven due to promises that the losses would be recouped at the polls thanks to the new, more centrist, policies of the Conservatives. The gambit utterly failed – the Tories saw significant losses to BNU candidates and had to survive on winning old Liberal seats. At the end of polling they remained on just 127 seats – the smallest Conservative presence in Parliament in the history of the Republic. But the real disaster befell the two Liberal parties. Viscount Cardwell’s Independent Liberals fell from being the 3rd largest party in Parliament to the 5th – losing some 33 seats in the process and coming to rest on a terribly disappointing 55. However, in some ways the Independent Liberals achieved their electoral goals as the rival Coalition Liberals were so utterly crushed that they were left with just 9 seats in Parliament.

russ.jpg


Not only had the Coalition Liberals been destroyed, they also lost their leader. The 72 year old Earl Russell had chosen a seat considered so safe that neither Labour nor the Independent Liberals even bothered placing a candidate up. In a leafy, prosperous and largely rural constituency in the Home Counties Russell was beaten by a BNU candidate who won just under twice as many votes as him.

milne.jpg


1864 really was the coming of age election for the British National Union. After all the build up and even the successes in securing 12 seats prior to the election itself Milne’s party knew that this election would either make it or break it. Benefiting from the Tory failure to address the concerns of the anti-socialist population the BNU secured a hefty share of the seats. However it failed, narrowly, to prevent a continuation of the Labour government. More worryingly, it also failed to lure working class seats and voters away from the Labour party. Despite having a clear presence within Labour dominated areas and amongst many poorer members of British society the BNU had failed to penetrate deeply into the politics of workingmen. Aside from two seats in its East London homeland the BNU won its gains in middle class areas and from old Tory voters.

After the election Friedrich Engels, clearly delighted at the failure of the rightwing parties to secure victory, would make the comment that the BNU represented an alliance between the lumpen proletariat and the petite bourgeoisie and had secured a significant degree of support from the ruling class itself which was both attracted by its anti-socialist ideals and the mistaken belief that it represented an alternate ideology for the workers. Whilst often attacked by more right wing writers this analysis would remain the dominant school of thought amongst left wing intellectuals when discussing the BNU’s strong presence.

parliament64.jpg


Finally, the Labour party secured what was an unspectacular victory. In the world of British politics securing a second term in power was no easy thing and the accomplishment must be praised – however it was secured by the thinnest of margins. Despite Labour gaining 14 seats and the IPP gaining 1 seat Labour’s coalition had a significantly reduced majority due to the utter collapse of the Coalition Liberals. With a majority of just 5 seats things seemed much less secure than they had been in the previous government. However, the weakness of their Liberal allies meant that the Labour manifesto for reform was agreed upon without alteration whilst the only major concessions went to the IPP who were promised more powers for the Irish Assembly, as well as a name change from the ‘Irish Assembly’ to the Dáil Éireann – the use of the Irish language being seen as a source of pride for the nationalists.

Joseph_Cowen_Vanity_Fair_1878-04-27.jpg


In the immediate aftermath of the election (before even the continuation of the coalition had been agreed upon) the Coalition Liberals seemed to be left in a pretty stunned state. They had lost both the leader of their party and most of the old leaders. On the day following the election the 9 elected MPs gathered in a small room in central London to decide the future fate of their party. Joseph Cowen, a popular newspaper editor from Newcastle and long a part of the Liberal Left, quickly managed to secure his position as the leader of the small clique. The group drew up a set of plans for the future of their apparently destroyed party: firstly, they would adopt the name Progressive Liberals and would abandon any ideas of uniting with the ‘’Authoritarian Liberals’’, secondly they would support the Labour government and promote Labour’s reforms in the spirit of creating a freer and more equal society as well as ensuring the security of the country from the likes of the BNU, finally the party would seek to do everything it could to ensure the strength of the Labour Right (the moderate socialists) and prevent the Labour Left (the Marxists and other communists) from taking over the party.
derby.jpg


Following this election Benjamin Disraeli had led the Conservative Party for some 15 years, 9 of which had been spent in opposition. In more recent years the popularity he had earned himself from his great electoral triumph in 1851 had been slowly undercut by major defeats in 1858 and 1864 as well as the loss of the Right of the party to the BNU. After leading the Tories to a very poor result Disraeli decided to jump before he was pushed and resigned the Conservative Party leadership – allowing his long term rival Lord Derby to rise to become party leader. With promises of a restoration of Tory fortunes and the formation of a broad anti-Labour opposition alongside Cardwell’s Liberals, the Unionists and even the BNU, Derby would have to tread carefully to prevent Disraeli and his supporters from restoring themselves to the party leadership.
 
And, of course, everything breaks Labour's way...

I'm dissapointed that you chose to have the 'progressive liberals' seek to support Labour. I don't see why they would or should. Labour has nothing to offer them in terms of governmental power, the progressive liberals best interest is to remain outside of the coalition government.

I know you are a 'left-wing intellectual'...so I expect this sort of coddling of the parties you want to win. I am just dissapointed with it.

Still reading. But if things get too crazy...I may 'emigrate' to other AARs.
 
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