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Hey Veldmaarschalk, since you're here I was wondering if maybe for one of the Dev Diaries could be about shedding some light on 'new' areas on the map that weren't there on CK, I think it would be pretty neat :)

Sorry, I have nothing to say about the development diaries.
 
Frist, the christianity practised in Ethiopia is very different from the one practised in Russia.

Second, to clarify, I mean that we dont know much about Ethiopia during this time. Sure they had a king, but did he grant fiefs to his vassals similar to the style in Europe or were there others factors involved? like giving them to powerful tribal factions in order to get their support. How did Ethiopian courts look like? How did the nobles act etc.?

I wasn't commenting on how the religion in Ethiopia would be represented, so I'm not sure what the point is. Religious differences already tend to be smoothed over and generalized, anyway.
 
You literally cannot cut out Gonder from a map of Ethiopia, that would be like saying "hey Paris will be difficult to have in the game because of the Paris Commune, let's just cut it out"
 
There's absolutely no basis for you to say that they only existed as a baronial-level power, that's pure conjecture on your part. The historical record is so sparse in this time and on this subject, it's impossible to say. And since it's impossible to say, I don't see why having a small county- or duchy-level state to represent a Khazar remnant is such a bad thing. It adds flavor and diversity to the region, instead of having it just be Yet More Muslims and Pagan Nomads.
So you can't prove they existed at all, and you want them to be a Duchy?

That is just not going to happen in the official releace of CK2 1.0
Why not? There were some parts of Persia that were still majority Zoroastrian in 1066. For that matter, Egypt and parts of Syria were still mostly Christian at game start as well. I don't think that Paradox needs a painstaking recreation of medieval religious demographics, but some acknowledgment of the diversity and complexity of the religious situation would be nice, instead of having the entire Middle East and North Africa be Sunni.
Because adding Zoroastrian would be work, and there's very little chance players would ever deal with Zoroastrian nobles...
Uhh. Generate more by event. Give the event(s) a low MTTH for Iberian and Polish monarchs. Problem solved.

It would be inappropriate if they were founding their own dynasties actually. Part of the reason that Jewish courtiers were used is because (unlike the Christian nobility) they had no power base of their own, and thus were dependent on their liege and unlikely to work against his interests. If they are marrying and founding their own dynasties, well, that kind of implies that they have their own power base.
So you want more special events.

That's programming. Less programming then an AI, but still programming.
You mean Paradox will have to do their job, and create medieval flavor for their medieval history game? Quelle horreur!
Here's where we disagree:
You seem to think that Paradox could rework the game to include Jews and not skimp on anything else. If they were just writing the project proposal today that would be possible. But they aren't. They're writing code. Every single person they have on the project has a full plate for every working hour he has between today and the release date. I am not exagerating. There's a Project Management program involved. It has everything they think will need to happen between today and release for release to actually happen. If you ask DoomDark what their third least important guy has to be doing 157.86 hours before release for the program to acrually be released he can tell you in a matter of seconds. That's his entire job. And adding Jews is just not anywhere on that list.

Which means adding them would require getting rid of something else. And, to be frank, I can't think of anything in this game I'd sacrifice for a few Court Jews, a kinda-nice but completely anachronistic Khazaria, and a County in Ethiopia.

You want to play a game where every time somebody has an idea that would be cool the developer rewrites the schedule? It's called Dwarf Fortress. It first came out in 2005. I love the game, and the slowass development process (Toady added bees on a whim, they took a RL month because he also had to add several bee-based industries, do not assume that just because adding Jews sounds simple it won't take somebody a RL month), but if CK2's development is as painful as DF's I will scream.

Nick
 
So you can't prove they existed at all
lol

That's a stupid standard. Half the map would be Terra Incognita if we had to leave out people and places that have no reliable historical documentation in 1066. There's plenty of madeup courtiers, counts, dukes, etc. in CK1 because we just don't know who ruled there at that time.
That is just not going to happen in the official releace of CK2 1.0
Yes, because Paradox magically turning up perfect knowledge of every region's rulers and principal vassals is so much more plausible.
Because adding Zoroastrian would be work
You're right, this is a free game that Paradox is producing as charity. It's simply churlish of me to expect them to work on it.
So you want more special events.
You're right, let's have the same generic events for every religion and culture. That'll really immerse you right in the Middle Ages.
You seem to think that Paradox could rework the game to include Jews and not skimp on anything else.
You seem to think that discluding Jews is not skimping in itself.

I find your attitude about this subject appallingly ignorant, you seem to think it's a minor inclusion when medieval society's interaction with its Jewish minority is one of the most important ways it defined itself in relation to both outside religions and an outside cultures. This is to say nothing of the importance of Jewish individuals as bankers, philosophers, diplomats, etc. And then there are the pogroms that followed in the wake of the Crusades, the Black Plague, or any time some ambitious king decided he needed some liquidity. This mostly hostile but sometimes cooperative and fruitful interaction with Jews is one of the defining traits of the age, and not having it in the game really dilutes the flavor of it. Jews have just as much right to be there as Muslims, pagans, and heretics.
 
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Please keep it friendly in here and try to have some respect for each other, even if you don't agree on certain issues
 
I wonder how the Beja/Blemmyes will be represented in the game, at the time they weren't completely Muslim... or Christian during this time period for that matter. They were a large pastoral people who controlled several key ports along the Red Sea but did not posses anything we can really consider a centralized state.
 
I wonder how the Beja/Blemmyes will be represented in the game, at the time they weren't completely Muslim... or Christian during this time period for that matter. They were a large pastoral people who controlled several key ports along the Red Sea but did not posses anything we can really consider a centralized state.

That's not true, the Beja today are actually a composite of two related peoples, the Bisharin of Egypt and northeast Sudan and the Belew-Kelew of Eritrea and southeast Sudan and Arab tribes that have intermingled with them. The Belew were a strong kingdom centered in the Taka region and Suakin though they lived much further afield. Ahmed Gragn, the famous Imam of Adal, was Belew. The Belew were a strong kingdom that actually conquered and ruled over several former Axumite cities.

The Bisharin conquered the Belew in the 14th century and ruled the whole coast until Ottoman times.
 
Sudan today was at the start of the CK timeframe a number of different kingdoms:

The Belew kingdom (Beja Muslim)
The Bisharin kingdom (Beja Muslim)
The Kingdom of Dotawo (Beja Christian)
The Kingdom of Makuria and Nobatia (Nubian Christian)
The Kingdom of Alwa (Nubian Christian)
The Daju Kingdom of Darfur and Kordofan (Saharan Pagan)

The areas of what is now Southern Sudan was probably inhabited in this time by Nubian pagan tribes of uncertain origin, they were conquered by the Luo in their expansion out of Ethiopia in the 15th century.
 
That's not true, the Beja today are actually a composite of two related peoples, the Bisharin of Egypt and northeast Sudan and the Belew-Kelew of Eritrea and southeast Sudan and Arab tribes that have intermingled with them. The Belew were a strong kingdom centered in the Taka region and Suakin though they lived much further afield. Ahmed Gragn, the famous Imam of Adal, was Belew. The Belew were a strong kingdom that actually conquered and ruled over several former Axumite cities.

The Bisharin conquered the Belew in the 14th century and ruled the whole coast until Ottoman times.

Every post by you is super informative, I didn't know about the kingdom of Belew and I didn't know the Bisharin formed a kingdom :)
 
The most important thing is that, unlike all Paradox game maps to date, East Africa and West Africa are connected through the Sahel, like this:
WestAfrica1625.png
CentralEastAfrica1750.png


The Zaghawa kingdom of Wadai always connected the Kanuri Kingdom of Kanem and Bornu and with it, west Africa, with East Africa via Darfur
 
lol

That's a stupid standard. Half the map would be Terra Incognita if we had to leave out people and places that have no reliable historical documentation in 1066. There's plenty of madeup courtiers, counts, dukes, etc. in CK1 because we just don't know who ruled there at that time.
The thing about the Khazars is that it isn't simply that we have no reliable historical documentation. It's that, after 968, there's no information at all. You're assuming a functioning Khaganate managed to survive on the steppes for nearly 200 years without leaving any records at all.

There's a difference between assuming some random Finnish Pagan Dude must have been in charge of a province in Pagan Finland in 1066, and assuming the Khazars still had a Khagan in 1066.
Yes, because Paradox magically turning up perfect knowledge of every region's rulers and principal vassals is so much more plausible.

You're right, this is a free game that Paradox is producing as charity. It's simply churlish of me to expect them to work on it.
Here's your problem:
You're assuming there's a guy at Paradox, assigned to this project who isn't working. Therefore adding Jewish courtiers will be cost-free.

My argument is that those guys are actually working at this moment. Jews might be nice, but so are the things they are working on.
You're right, let's have the same generic events for every religion and culture. That'll really immerse you right in the Middle Ages.
They're nice flavor.

But IMO the most immersive bit is going to be that you can make your Mother a Duchess, and then she can declare war on you because she doesn't like the way you treat your little brother.

If Paradox gets that right modders will add more events then the game engine can handle.
You seem to think that discluding Jews is not skimping in itself.
We're playing a game about Christian Nobleman. Jews are no more necessary then the miller, the blacksmith, the maid, or the local pub. All that stuff would be nice flavor, but that's it.

I am not willing to switch the dude whose doing Baronies to Jews for "just a few days" just so courts can be include yet more characters I can't use, but can give me event spam about shit my character doesn't care about because he's a bloodthirsty Medieval warlord.
I find your attitude about this subject appallingly ignorant, you seem to think it's a minor inclusion when medieval society's interaction with its Jewish minority is one of the most important ways it defined itself in relation to both outside religions and an outside cultures. This is to say nothing of the importance of Jewish individuals as bankers, philosophers, diplomats, etc. And then there are the pogroms that followed in the wake of the Crusades, the Black Plague, or any time some ambitious king decided he needed some liquidity. This mostly hostile but sometimes cooperative and fruitful interaction with Jews is one of the defining traits of the age, and not having it in the game really dilutes the flavor of it. Jews have just as much right to be there as Muslims, pagans, and heretics.
Remember in this game Medieval society is not represented by the people at your Court. It's represented by provinces, buildings, events, etc. Your Court represents the people you can use for the very most important jobs in your Kingdom. As there just doesn't seem to be much historical precedent for allowing Jews to hold any of those jobs there's no historical reason for Jewish courtiers to exist in CK2.

The Muslims and Pagans, OTOH, actually had dozens of Courts of their own. Interacting with those Courts is central to the game.

Nick