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Thread: CORE 0.50 for AoD Open Beta 3 (0.50.19)

  1. #21
    East vs West developer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blecky View Post
    It doesn´t matter too much in AoD vanilla, but in Core resources aren´t that readily available.
    You mean rares, I presume? Does the name say it all? We've been using the LoN records regarding rares distribution, so it should be some form of a problem for Germany to get hold of those. The USSR should be the easiest option, but at a price.
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  2. #22
    Lt. General
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hagar View Post
    You mean rares, I presume? Does the name say it all? We've been using the LoN records regarding rares distribution, so it should be some form of a problem for Germany to get hold of those. The USSR should be the easiest option, but at a price.
    I wasn´t really complaining about scarce resources, I think it´s somewhat realistic (at least it´s more challenging). I just wondered, why the tooltip says that I use 121 rares, meaning 242 IC, when only 236 IC are currently available (no dissent at that time).

  3. #23
    CORE developer Denniss's Avatar
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    This seems to be a general problem in AoD. I tried loading both vanilla and CORE games and not a single one had metals consumption match effective (available) IC.
    The ratio between rares, metals and energy consumption is correct though. In the games I tried I actually had less consumption than theoretically needed for 100% IC coverage.

    This is something the AoD devs need to look at for the next beta.

    Edit: just tried vanilla USA - they pay ~30 metals more than needed for 100% IC (135 metals:106 available IC).
    Last edited by Denniss; 08-03-2011 at 23:44.

  4. #24
    maybe ressource usage increasing due to serial builds?

  5. #25
    Colonel Dichromate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amallric View Post
    maybe ressource usage increasing due to serial builds?
    Yeah this is the likely explanation, since serial builds use the same resources, but progressively less IC.

  6. #26
    erm no, you mean the same IC and progressively more ressources(that is, per day, globally its much less IC and less ressources).

  7. #27
    CORE developer Denniss's Avatar
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    No, it's not increase res usage with serial builds, try yourself as USA 1938 with all production removed and all IC used for CG, supplies, etc.

  8. #28
    Maybe the ressources consumption is calculated from the base IC value(number of IC) but the actual base IC number is modified by various factors such as revolt risk etc.

  9. #29
    CORE developer Denniss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amallric View Post
    Maybe the ressources consumption is calculated from the base IC value(number of IC) but the actual base IC number is modified by various factors such as revolt risk etc.
    Res consumption did neither fit base IC nor theoretical base IC nor available IC. Something in the calculation seems to be wrong, either some factors are left out of the calculation or are inserted at the wrong place.
    I suspect it somehow belongs to infra/concentration effect but I'm not really sure.

  10. #30
    AoD's Old Geezer Balesir's Avatar
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    Retooling does not use resources - maybe something to do with that?
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balesir View Post
    Retooling does not use resources - maybe something to do with that?
    I´d rather doubt that:

    Quote Originally Posted by Denniss View Post
    No, it's not increase res usage with serial builds, try yourself as USA 1938 with all production removed and all IC used for CG, supplies, etc.
    There´s no retooling involved.

  12. #32
    some observations from my GER game:

    defeating the SU was way too easy. I declared war in may 41 and got a Bitter Peace in sep 41(and only holding Moscow, Stalingrad and Leningrad). the SU seems to be too focused on building an airforce, which was 90 units strong. they had only 8 light armored units, about 25 inf and a lot of Reserves.

    in regards to the SUB war:
    it is now aug 42 and I have build 134 subs and lost 65, most in 39/40. convoy raiding eff is 153%.
    I'm grouping them in 4 5 or 6 units and they do well against the many small DD fleets the AI likes to use, facing a carrier task force they usually get wiped out.
    I've sunk 79 screens so far and 4 capitals. 243 convoys and 68 escorts.

    on a brighter note the Italians managed to capture Egypt and most of the British possessions in the Mid East.
    I'll play a few more years and report back.

  13. #33
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    Thanks for your tips on the SU. We were focused on other things and just noticed as a side issue that the Soviets (often) were defeated by GER. We considered this more as an AI issue. Build AI problems are more easily solved than front/invasion/garrison AI problems.

    Sub:
    By the end of 1942 Germany had built 562 subs and lost 156.

    U-boat net gives the total number of "ships" "hit" by the end of 1942 as 2.572.
    I am not sure what "ships" are (including probably escorts, maybe also naval ships). "Hit" means damaged and sunk.
    I have taken 6 arbitrary months to determine the ratio of damaged to "hit" as 9%.

    So you have built 24% of the subs Germany built in the same period and achieved (243+68)/(2572.0.91) = 13 % of the sinkings.

    How often are your subs engaged by pure surface unit groups? We saw this as one of the main reasons why the subs never really reached the shipping lanes and hoped to fix this by lowering visibility.
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

  14. #34
    In my first test, 37 submarines were lost in less than a month of battle. About 20 convoys have been sunk. I have the impression that in the territorial waters of the UK, it is almost impossible to raid, you are spotted almost immediately. I guess that makes sense and that's why the Germans waited to invade France before launching the raiding campaign.
    Battles against fleets are common. Carriers are ahistorically effective for 1939, battleship fleets also often enter in battle, and suffer heavy damage. When it's destroyers vs subs, odds are rather equal.

  15. #35
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    I looked thorugh the unit stats and carriers and especially CVEs are very effective. I did not define those stats so will put this up for discussion among the devs (they are reading this here anyway).

    1939/40 is not a very representative period, mid-1940 is probably a good point for starting any comparison with history.

    Battleships with "heavy damage": does this mean that they at least do not get sunk by the dozen? We lowered early submodel seaattack values to get rid of this early BB sinking spree.

    Generally: as you have tested sub warfare before: do you see a clear improvement to the last Beta (of course we are not there yet)?
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

  16. #36
    I looked thorugh the unit stats and carriers and especially CVEs are very effective. I did not define those stats so will put this up for discussion among the devs (they are reading this here anyway).
    I'd way early carriers should not have much sub attack. Their planes could detect the subs but hadn't the weapons to attack them effectively.


    Battleships with "heavy damage": does this mean that they at least do not get sunk by the dozen? We lowered early submodel seaattack values to get rid of this early BB sinking spree.
    I don't think any was sunk, but several have been damaged. Usually the pattern is that the battle begins, subs close to the battleship and start firing, removing about 50% of strength, then lose their own organisation or flee.

    Generally: as you have tested sub warfare before: do you see a clear improvement to the last Beta (of course we are not there yet)?
    I'll have to run a whole campaign before being able to answer that, but currently it seems that things are heading in the right direction indeed. Keep up the good work!

  17. #37
    as of 41 my sub fleets had no problems reaching the shipping lanes. contact with large surface fleets is very rare the UK seems to be keeping it's big fleets in port a lot.
    stats from may 43:
    convoys/escorts sunk: 493/99

  18. #38
    0300 November 26, 1942. Germany.

    1936 - 1939 : everything went rather historical, but by 1939 there was a stalemate between Spain and Republican Spain. The Republicans held Madrid, Badajaz and Bilbao.
    Polenfeldzug, 1939: Invasion of Poland didn't go quite as expected: the Poles folded and gave Danzig to me, so I declared war on them a day later. The Allies declared war on me and the aerial bombardments on Germany began.
    early 1940: tried an early invasion of Yugoslavia which was a success, but then Italy declared a separate war on Greece and then Romania delcared war on Italy. Decided that having to choose between Italy and Romania (both valuable for different reasons) is not worth it so I went back to early 1940.
    early 1940: invaded the Netherlands.
    Operation Weserübung: invaded Norway and Denmark on the historical date with paratroopers in the south and an amphibious landing in the north.
    Fall Gelb, somewhere May 1940: Invasion of France was quick and easy, nothing special noticed. After the Vichy France event fired I moved some forces east to attack Yugoslavia, northwest for the planned invasion of Britain, south to attack Spain and north to attack Sweden.

    Operation Sea Lion: The invasion of Britain was terribly difficult. Paratroopers can take out a territorial unit but these are reinforced by others before the paratroopers can hold on to the territory. Amphibious support is hard because the German Navy is quickly intercepted by Royal Navy, especially carriers who are just beyond effective. After a few attempts and reloads I did in fact conquer Britain. Once you have around 27 divisions on the British mainland nothing will stop you from reaching Scapa Flow.

    Spain: The Spanish civil war situation hadn't changed for two years. The German invasion changed everything and Republican Spain ceased to exist. Seville was captured by the British but they were pushed back and now Gibraltar is Spanish for the first time since 1713.
    Weird fact about Spain: as an ally of Germany they stack units in their capital, their defence methods seemed so bad I assumed military control. Also, Spain builds many garrison units, by 1942 they have 19 of them, I moved them to cover the Atlantic coast and some are stationed in the Balkans.

    Yugoslavia: the invasion was quick. Hungary requested to join the invasion after a week, they put some of their forces under my command and didn't invade Yugoslavia themselves. Bulgaria joined too. The Bulgarians were quick to invade the south of Yugoslavia so Germany didn't even get to control any Greek provinces.
    A question about the SS recruitment in the Banat. Why does the revolt risk lower the most in Belgrade instead of Zrenajin/Banat? It should lower the most in the Banat.
    Croatia was created and assigned as much land as possible, it's quite a bummer this automatically makes your units redeploy to Berlin.

    Finland joined the Axis in early 1941. By the time the relation was +180.

    Invasion of the Soviet Union, late may 1941, the world holds is breath: I launched the war against the Soviet Union, I made a lot of use of major (the entire swamp area, Lithuania & Latvia, Western Ukraine) and minor encirclements. The Soviets launched a major invasion against Finland but they got lost in the central forests of Finland and never tried to reach Helsinki or Turku. The Soviets don't seem to be using a lot of infantry nor build many. In the first two months they lost 50+ divisions due to encirclements. Although the logistics really become a problem in the southern Caucasus and approaching the Urals, Germany still gets off lightly. Germany's TC is very high and troops move fast. Some suggestions to make it harder:
    - partisans need to pop up more often, perhaps even by persistent events in random provinces. Belarus should be able to be supressed by a Slovakian reserve unit. The whole swamp and forest area around there needs some serious partisan issues.
    - Stalingrad needs to be properly defended, it's usually pretty much empty.
    - Soviet Union should get a temporary bonus in the winter of 1941 perhaps?

    I decided not to take control of Sverdlovsk but instead move south to establish Central Asian buffer states. All of Turkestan is now made up of pro-Axis puppets and I even released the Transrural republic.

    Now it's November 1942: The Soviets have lost all provinces west of the Urals, they have lost the entire of Central Asia and the Urals themselves. Yet the Bitter Peace hasn't fired yet. I checked the triggers and there seems to be no reason why it shouldn't trigger by now. There haven't been any battles for some time and in fact I am replacing my front line troops with Hungarian, Romanian and Spanish ones and I'm moving them to the Persian border (who remained neutral) and back to Germany: by the time you reach the urals it's hard to reinforce units. Today, I'm going to play until somewhere next year and see what happens.

    Oh btw, Italy has some strong ambitions. They have taken over Congo, but as always they are stuck in southern Tanzania, they have also taken over all French posessions in Africa as well as Nigeria. But that's not all: they invaded and annexed Oman and Yemen, they control Kuwait and they decided to invade Pakistan last month.

    Japan is just fighting China and hasn't declared war on the USA, I'm actually thankful for that. But I may try to make them join me for it could trigger the different version of the Bitter Peace.

    As for the sub war. I had a minor sub war in 1940 just after the establishment of Vichy France and just before the invasion of Great Britain. It was a disaster. The subs were met by surface fleets all the time, especially carriers. Now I have a long range submarine (1941 model) and all submarine techs. I am sending it down from Podgorica to the Indian Ocean, it destroys a convoy every now and then.

    Great Britain should not relocate to Malta after it loses the British Isles. I would say Lagos is a better option, and eventually Colon or Fiji. Heck, by the time it has to desperately move to Fiji Canada should just take over its fleet and that's it.

    Also, by 1942 Germany has huge amounts of everything, well except manpower of course.

    German-Soviet front:
    http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6763/screensave01.png

    Chinese-Japanese front:
    http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2...reensave0d.png

  19. #39
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    Thanks for the report.

    While this seems like an enjoyable game for you, some points arise for the mod.

    Soviet Union seems to be too weak. Part of this may be an AI build problem - can you report on the airforce strength at the start of Barbarossa?

    Another aspect is supply. You report that supply is difficult, but not impossible. We currently have the following setting in misc.txt:
    # _CV_SUPPLY_DISTANCE_SEVERITY_, the amount supply distance affects combat
    10.0 # was 1.5, then 2.0, is now 3.0 in 1.06b1

    So we are 5 times higher than vanilla. I have for some time thought about raising this value to 15 ....

    Sealion should be hard, since most people believe it was impossible.

    SCW getting stuck - I am starting to despair there. One of the new features of 0.50.19 is a "terminator AI" that is loaded into the winning side in the SCW when the other side is close to collapsing - still we get these stand-offs....

    Japan/China: considering the work spent on this theater I am happy it finally works. If not at war with the US in 1943, Japan should load an offensive China AI and finish them off.

    I have the impression that everybody has too much money in the late game - what is your take?
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

  20. #40
    Hey,

    Ok so I played to the end of 1944 with Germany. For some odd reason Bitter Peace never fired also not when Japan was on the side of the Axis. I suspect my invasion of Central Asia and setting up puppet states all over confused the game. Eventually I just went for the key provinces and annexed the Soviet Union. Transural republic and Siberia are now German puppets. I must stress that in the almost 4 years of action between the Soviets and the Germans not one partisan uprising occured.

    I don't know about the Soviet airforce in 1941 but when Japan joined and I sent some divisions to Japan-held Korea I noticed 43 air divisions at the border. In the far East the Soviets collapsed quickly, the only thing that helped them is the fact Manchuria isn't agressive (contrary to Mengkukuo who invaded Mongolia).

    Meanwhile Italy's invasion of India was great, especially after Rommel came in with 9 1943 Armored divisions and just had an easy ride to Calcutta. In Burma I got kinda bogged down due to not paying attention. The Malay states are still in allied hands but for some reason there's no allied naval activity around. Oh the Italians are convinced their transport ships cannot be sunk, I have seen lone TPs crossing the Indian ocean and then just going nowhere really.

    South(ern) Africa is Italian, only in Western Africa there are some allied provinces protected by the sea and neutral Vichy. I don't like the fact Italians hold Namibia, the game should give it to Germany. Also there's no reason for the Italians to get away with occupying South Africa for a long time, I am sure some stubborn Afrikaners will start complaining.

    America is not in the war. If they attack now I have 6 Marine divisions ready in Scapa Flow as well as a naval base to be constructed on Greenland. Frankly I don't want to play the American invasion scenario because we all know what will happen: a long fight for provinces, Germany will win (unless logistics kick in and I am bogged down), but the West to East coast ride will be a long and boring one.

    As for money. A lot seems to be flowing around. I have plenty (like 70k), which I mostly use for giving away blueprints to my lesser strong allies.

    I'm not sure if I will continue this game. Germany and Japan simply possess an overkill, next year I will have 15 of the latest BBs ready, and overpower all existing navies.

    I am thinking of playing Italy or Japan. Would that be of any use to you guys? I have to go to gym/work now. Thanks for the game!

    EDIT: Gonna play Italy tomorrow (free day and lotsa time), but I have a question: is there a switch sides event in case the allies approach the Italian mainland?
    Last edited by Unit101; 10-03-2011 at 15:36.

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