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Ooplase2112

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Feb 22, 2011
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Jeez this game is almost broken as Bet On Soldier and that game was broken as hell!

Two times the game has crashed my computer almost in the same spot.

Once it crashed my computer when I was thrown offscreen by a goblin grenade explosion after that it crashed in the cutscene right after the fountain part in the city.

The game seemed pretty fun to play but with all the crashes im starting to avoid it.

I keep thinking "Well I could play magicka but.. if it crashes my comp that will be a pain in the ass" and I end up not playing it.

You might want to fix your game before you release it, no amount of ingenuity can save a game if it is this broken.

Thanks for wasting my 10€ now im even less likely to buy indie titles..

Cya, *Delete local content?* *Yes*

-Sydema
 
Cya!
I mean, you could just go and do the proper bug reporting so Arrow Head and patch the problem or tell you what the issue is, since they would probably prefer everyone to enjoy their game. But--if that is your decision, then no one can stop you.
 
you could just go buy a propper computer
You could just go fetch a proper brains. Gees, the game is really bugged, it's not the matter of a computer!
I mean, you could just go and do the proper bug reporting so Arrow Head and patch the problem or tell you what the issue is, since they would probably prefer everyone to enjoy their game.
Oh yea? Look at the Teck support thread. There's a TON of bug reports, some errors are so silly that you can't say nothing but "Facepalm", and still they are not fixed. They just hang there for WEEKS already. With users moaning and wanting to play, and some jerks occasionally popping in telling them the game shouldn't be judged bad, even if it's not working... The last patch just RIPPED ch3 of the game, and no one gives a damn!
If the developers WOULD think of the gamers in any way, and WOULD care, they wouldn't release a piece of unfinished coding scrap in the first place! And even if they did, of they would fix something. As I see it patch after pathc the game gets more and more unstable. Minor bugs are fixed - major bugs take their place. For example since 3.3.8 it crashes the video drivers, ohhh but we won't even THINK of backing up the more stable version, we will continue on, and it's likely the people's drivers/dx/hardware/XNA/.net that's at fault here!
Or like they fixed the "Books falling through ground" issue. ALMOST fixed, I should point out, because they do still fall through it occasionally. But in addition, now players and mobs do too! But they will not do the damn back up yet again, even that they did actually make the situation worse and even less playable. What's with this attitude? Normal programmers get fired for that sort of things, but here's noone will give a damn and instead of backing it up for the previous version they'll ignore the new issue and continue writing oh so cool patches (one of wich will rip the ch3... yea.... right..... good caring developers who want their game to be YET better. Better example on how you should NEVER make a game)...
Oh yea, totally, this helps A LOT to write in there. The only ones reading are the players themselves (who learned repeating drivers/hardware phrase like parrots) and occasional moderator. And no real support.
Now they'v lost motivation an dont release patches. Oh, they said they'd work on some major fixes now. But really, bug fixing patch doesnt take weeks to release, Unless you re-writing some modules from scratch, wich is likely should be done, but I don't believe the arrowhead programmer does it. Mark my words the next patch would be as silly as the previous, though will take weeks to be done. It's just that they are tired of patching it and descided to pull back imo. And all those who has the game working yet should just prey it will continue working AFTER that patch, because seeing the work up till now that may be actually that they just didn't take a notice of your "game-still-playable" issue, folks.

And oh yes. I'm trolling right? Any negative opinion is trolling, I forgot.
 
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I don't think you're trolling. I think you're just ignorant. Bug fixing can be very difficult, sometimes it takes days to fix a very subtle bug(especially if it's hard to reproduce reliably). According to LinkedIn, Arrowhead has fewer than 10 employees. Those aren't all programmers so there's a limit to how fast they can fix bugs.

Also keep in mind that small studios don't have a huge amount of money. They may not have been able to afford the delays that would be required to fix all the annoying bugs.
 
And oh yes. I'm trolling right? Any negative opinion is trolling, I forgot.

Negative, constructive criticism is not trolling, and is encouraged. Constant, uppity, fake-sarcastic-but-actually-raging comments and gain-saying is. Please try to refrain yourself, and post with a proper amount of decorum and amiability. Thank you.

This is a verbal warning.
 
Akumetsu: why don't you register the game before complaining about it?
Also: if the game brings you this much frustration perhaps it's better for your stress levels to abandon it. You're going to have a heartattack at this rate.
 
I don't think you're trolling. I think you're just ignorant. Bug fixing can be very difficult, sometimes it takes days to fix a very subtle bug(especially if it's hard to reproduce reliably).
First of all I know about bug fixes as I do that kind of stuff too, being a programmer.
Most bugs are very little indeed. That is, in a good-written application. It's normally something you forgot to add, like a destructor or a line that checks if an object is created and so on.
Secondary, if you have a bugged game and you need to track bugs - make a suitable logs and error reports! All it has currently is XNA native reports, which are not nearly enough to track that much of bugs.
At last, thirdly, you should be one reeealy bad programmer to actually break the engine in one place while fixing the other.

According to LinkedIn, Arrowhead has fewer than 10 employees. Those aren't all programmers so there's a limit to how fast they can fix bugs.
the problem is not that they have 1 or 2 programmers only, but that those programmers can't quite understand what they are doing and how they SHOULD be doing it. Let alone even now they are most probably fix bugs by just playing straight with the code, instead of drawing schemes and constructing data lists.
And that's not even too big of a project. I totally agree it may take awhile to track and fix some bugs, but frankly - not a few weeks. And on top of that they may have at least release hotfixes for when they break shit. Like ch3 - release the freaking hotfix and work all you want on your mega update.

Negative, constructive criticism is not trolling, and is encouraged. Constant, uppity, fake-sarcastic-but-actually-raging comments and gain-saying is. Please try to refrain yourself, and post with a proper amount of decorum and amiability. Thank you.
oh do tell what's constructive criticism may be? I'm pointing out the attitude and say it shouldn't be like that. I point out how they SHOULD work. Yes, I'm being sarcastic - well sorry but I can't look at this game without a smile. Almost a month has passed and it's still laggy like..... like I don't know what. I haven't seen this laggy program even when I was studying with not the brightest men in the world.
It's been a whole month. Give me a source and good money and I'll point out all flaws in it, give me better money, and I'll even fix major bugs and crashes myself in a month, tho If I'd have to simply rewrite some modules that'd count separately.
How can I be more constructive as it is, hm? Maybe providing more of the same error supports? It's not that I can point out WHERE the bug is and HOW they could fix it.
As it is ANY criticism may be called by you not constructive.

And BTW zenstar is who are really trolling now. THAT is trolling, not my posts. But hey, I'm the bad guy right, so nobody'd give a damn! =)
 
The point is the way you present your thoughts. Plus, registering your game will garner quite a few goodwill points.

Also, please read the forum rules concerning moderating actions, and proper conduct concerning them.
 
Akumetsu: It's not about what you say but how you say it. You're welcome to your opinions and you're welcome and encouraged to add constructive criticism on the forums. Simply repeating "OMG this is the worst game in the world" is not constructive. Neither is constantly calling the developers bad developers. Until we can sample your work and criticise it I don't see that you have any right to criticise theirs in the manner you do.

What sort of programming do you do? What's the largest system you've worked on?

Again dude: you seem to get way too worked up by this.

You'd also add more weight & validity to your posts if you actually registered your game.

EDIT: safferli commenting as I'm typing again >.< I'm going to stop commenting in this thread. you seem to have it covered :p
 
Alright OK, I have a little bit to tell you about.
From what I know of Arrow Head, which isn't much, they basically did the game that became the magicka we know in COLLEGE, then graduated and founded their own company to "finish" it.
I'm assuming that the very programmers that developed the college and retail version are the same people, ergo are straight out of college. They don't have the 10 years experience to know what will work and I'm pretty sure they make programming errors that end up hanging them or kicking them square in the balls from time to time. This is the time fact of programming. When I took programming classes, its what happened to me and everyone else in the classes.

You need to understand, this game was their child, their baby, and they've worked their asses off to make it. They WANT it to work. You don't spend more than 6 months to a year or two working on a project and then it not work for people, expecially when you're asking for money for it. Plus, there is the slue of additional content that will be free and paid DLC for the game. They want you to buy their paid DLCs and use their Free DLCs to stay interested so they can milk you for every penny. Of course, you enjoying their hard work is always a plus.

There are heaps of pirated copies. They're asking you to prove that you actually bought it and are using the latest patch, so they don't spend their time fixing bugs that were fixed in a previous patch.
To be simply, they need your help to make it work. Are you going to help them help you, or flail your arms around like a 2 year old and be vindictive towards a company that wants to weed out the bugs?

If you're the latter, then I recommend you follow the rule of 6 when buying games. Wait 6 months before you buy a game. This ensures that most of the bugs are gone via patches.
Furthermore, if you're wondering why they didn't have all the bugs fixed with Gold Master, simply it is that a sophisticated program will work just fine on 10,000 computers, and then by some error with the OS, Hardware, and Other programs encounter an error.

I'm not trying to tell you that you're an ass. But--simply asking you if you will allow the Arrow Head Team to help you find the error and patch it. They need your help Sydema, you're they're only hope.
 
Hehm if you'v read teck support thread, the probles ARE in stack overflows, lack of system memory (it's leaking somwhere) and "Index out of range" (my favorite). It actualyy ARE stupid bugs in a lot of places.

And by telling me I don't know nothing about programming? Well I do. You don't but base your opinion on fantasizing it's soo soo hard and long process. It isn't so.
It's just that the project is likely build so poorely its actually IS a problem to track bugs. Again, if they were smart enough they'd do logging, as all normal people do. XNA error log is not even remotely enough. Make an option in dev console to track every variable and every function executed. That way you'd know percisely where the problem is. That's generally done by all programmers if they build something more complex. From the start.
Someone said they started it in colledge. Does it matter? No. The first thing what I was taught is not the syntax of some language, but how you build project. And believe me - writing the code is the very last and the easyest step. I don't know, don't they teach this in US (or where they are from)? Certainly they do. So what the heck?
Even if it IS from colledge. It doesn't make difference. It's just impolite to release something that bugged. You say it may run stable on one PC and crash on the other - quite true, every game has this potential. BUT some bugs are not even crashes - they are in the game logics, and I will NEVER believe that they weren't known. They were. The progect was released and they were full aware how bugged it actually is. A programmer and development team may overlook a few bugs. But not so many. I don't know, You have to have no, absolutely NO game experience to don't know about some bugs. Especially bugs that occur on so many PCs. Every second player have SOME bug, that's too much.

And a little bit more about patch developement.
First of all, there's things like hotfixes, that should be done. I'm sure it's actually the matter of 20 minutes to stop players fall through the arena, for instance. There is collision detection algorythm that should stop the player from falling down when he hits the ground. It's that it works with bugs. The algorythm itself is simplyest you can imagine - you basically have a vertex starting from the character (actually a bit above it) and pointing down. Every cycle you find the collision point of this vertex and the ground, nad if the distance from the vector start to this point is lower than some value, then falling is stopped, and the character is brought to the ground level. It's a simple example, sometimes it's good to make it not a vertex but a box around a character. But still, it's the very primitive. And finding and fixing a bug here is the matter of, like, minutes. Moreover, this bug must have been fixed even BEFORE coding, on the point of drawing block-scheme of the algorythm.
And even less time it would take to return ch3.

As for major crashing things. XNA points out pretty good what is the problem, and it's really mostly noobish as hell. Read error reports (if you are so good at programming to argue with me and state that I know nothing). Read them, and you see that errors are pretty much the same. The problem of XNA is that it only points out wich thread encountered an error, not being specific wich part of it (and Logics thread, for instance, may be very big). But the errors themself are really silly. I may even make some guesses on most of the bugs. First thing they should do now it add a good logging system, which will track all variable changes and procedures. And release patch with it. Simply putting another exe file with this feature enabled, and advicing everyone who encounter errors play from it. It will actually slow the game down as there will be logging of everything in a lot of places. Keep the last minute logged, that should make the size of log fairly small. Then get those logs from people, and voila - you already know where the problem is. But I doubt they will ever make this. As I see they make a standart school mistake - start fixing while they don't know where EXACTLY the bug is, but know where it COULD be. Thus, sometimes, fixing parts that actually worked fine.
Also, before every fix, and every programming in general there should be a developement and construction stage, so that they don't think the code up on the fly (as they certainly do now, or else I can't explain they breaking new things up while fixing anothers), but simply transform the descided algorythm into code.

And right, I know, I yet again take the wrong tone. If I don't praise dhe devs it's the wrong tone, right?
 
Alright, well it sounds like you have something you could offer them in the way of advice and experience.
Why don't you instead mentor them? Teach them what you know and maybe get a cut of their total earnings for the services offered?
 
The developers are swedish (not that this makes any difference unless you like learning about the team behind the game).

Are you ever going to register your game Akumetsu?
 
Also, while I have no idea on how Magicka is made, I have been in some beta programs before. You have a debug build, with lots of logs and whatnot. Just that you sell the non-debug build to retail, as it's faster and not intimidating to players.

Note, I am not in the Magicka beta, and I do not know how Arrowhead programs/what they use. I would only assume that they have an internal build with debug set to "verbose" or something like that.
 
While there's been a number of 'hard' bugs, I've actually been thinking the opposite. I generally have a lot or stability issues with a wide range of games - but in terms of general stability, Magicka have been beyond stable.
 
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