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Not quite. Should a single man with a single province with no army to speak of be destroyed, the Mongols would not simply go elsewhere. They would send another wave. And Subutai's army wasn't the only one inflicting damages to the surrounding powers.

280px-Mongol_Empire_map.gif


There were multiple waves happening only decades apart in Persia as well as in Russia. Being defeated by one litle Duchy doesn't mean the Mongols stop... it means they will continue relentlessly in the next few decades. While Russia was being attacked, so was Anatolia. You don't stop the Mongols by defeating a small province. It's just silly. Even the people who defeated the Mongols, accepted Mongolian Sovereignty.

I dont doubt the power of the Mongols in history but when they went over whole Europe to England in all of my games like in CK 1 its a total gamebreaker. They even built the best forts in every province, those nomads ;-)
I think we have to find a more gamebalancing solution , because i wanna play the game for fun not having to build a Europe spanning Superpower to be able to destroy the Mongols as soon as they arrive or its game over. I also think the EU horde system might give a good basis. I also tried to "cheat rather historically" by making them a normal Hungarian nation as sson as they reached middle Europe, but they are already too strong then, i would like though if they could settle somehow in certain circumstances and end the horde rage. Until then i guess they should be out for gold more than land, and the more contact they get with western europe the more they should settle down maybe and become a "normal" nation.
 
They way I've described my view for the mongols in this thread should satisfact you, Duke of Bavaria, as it is based on the settlements slots of each provinces. Considering that it's probable that western provinces will have more slots used than eastern steppes provinces and that, in my idea, steppes hordes generate troops and money from "free slots", not slots used with settlements.
 
Maybe there can be a mongol setting before you start your game. Where you can set them to be timid, ill-tempered, or apocalyptic. Because there are times when I want to play and not worry about the mongols. But then there are times when you want them to crush all before them, maybe even you!

I would love this option, to have the choice of an unstoppable horde that sweeps across europe to storm the gates of paris and drive christendom into exile in the british isles, but only when you wanted it to, and mostly just have a plausible threat on the eastern marches of the world, or even as an insignificant murmur if thats what you want.
but personally id love to have the unstoppable terror to go up against.
 
Hear, hear!

I agree on the first part but the second part, with a good manpower, sooner or later they have to invade or subjugate you, conquering the world was their goal after all.

But an off-map invasion is very different than playing politics on the map. Consider the following examples.


Scenario #1: "Sire, we just had Mongol merchants cross into our lands. We think they may be spies. Can we kill them?"

"Sure."

"ZOMG! The Horde is coming for revenge!"

Scenario #2: "Sire, Mongol merchants have been detected in our lands. We think they are spies. Can we kill them?"

"Nope."

"ZOMG! Look at the Horde invade our neighbors to the north. Man, it's a good thing we played nice."


The Mongols don't refrain from invading at all, they just bypass the friendly power in scenario #2. When the Mongols are established on the map, they will play politics like anyone else, and future conflict is possible (and likely if they have a good leader).

The point is to avoid the CK1 issue of "WTF! An event just fired and 150,000 Mongols just appeared in province X and took it over without any warning at all. And its the same exact province they did it the last 20 times I played the game. Just once, can't the mongols do something even remotely different?"

Captain Frakas also points out another interesting idea. Empty settlement slots can count as "barbarian POPs" a la EU:Rome and contribute to the support of Mongol or other steppe nomads.
 
I dont doubt the power of the Mongols in history but when they went over whole Europe to England in all of my games like in CK 1 its a total gamebreaker. They even built the best forts in every province, those nomads ;-)
I think we have to find a more gamebalancing solution , because i wanna play the game for fun not having to build a Europe spanning Superpower to be able to destroy the Mongols as soon as they arrive or its game over. I also think the EU horde system might give a good basis. I also tried to "cheat rather historically" by making them a normal Hungarian nation as sson as they reached middle Europe, but they are already too strong then, i would like though if they could settle somehow in certain circumstances and end the horde rage. Until then i guess they should be out for gold more than land, and the more contact they get with western europe the more they should settle down maybe and become a "normal" nation.
The Mongols would have conquered most of Europe if not for their Khagan's death. So... assassinate the Khagan. Also, if you play from 1066 The mongols are almost pathetic. The past three games I played the Golden Horde never got off the ground, losing it's home base all three times before conquering a single province, while the Il Khanate was partially successful, they never even made it to central Persia. So the Mongols I face, I want reaching England once in a while, just to make up for what happened those past few games.

The EU3 Horde mechanic is REALLY bad for this game. The EU3 Horde mechanic neuters the steppe hordes into constantly harassing enemies that only threaten you if you border them. The Mongol Empire should terrify you. Not say: "HAH! Looks like with your vassalization of Moscow you'll never be able to expand into Europe ever again!"
 
The EU3 Horde mechanic is REALLY bad for this game. The EU3 Horde mechanic neuters the steppe hordes into constantly harassing enemies that only threaten you if you border them. The Mongol Empire should terrify you. Not say: "HAH! Looks like with your vassalization of Moscow you'll never be able to expand into Europe ever again!"
It shouldn't be exactly the same, but similar. In fact, when you think about it, you could almost reverse the position of who can take land from whom -- the Mongols can colonize settled territory, but not the other way around? ;-)
 
It shouldn't be exactly the same, but similar. In fact, when you think about it, you could almost reverse the position of who can take land from whom -- the Mongols can colonize settled territory, but not the other way around? ;-)
That doesn't really work either. The Mongols made plenty of vassals out of Europe without incorporating them. So the idea of needing to settle land before they can take it or bring it into their empire doesn't work very well either. Not to mention that CK covered a time period where the mongols were in complete collapse, so sometimes the mongols should fall after their brief reign, and then you should be able to take some land from them.