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Thread: Weaponry and conquering

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    Rocker moth Wave's Avatar
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    Weaponry and conquering

    As the game will happen in near future I doubt that naval weaponry will decrease back to WWII level or something, which may probably mean that ships are armed with bigger and bigger anti-ship missiles. Just as a question, if it is possible to control one ship and even micromanage things in it will we just jump to next ship when some evil foe decides to let us taste some 2030 version V2 missile? Or will the ships be able to take several hits?

    Other thing, the seas have very little well marked borderlines so how the advancing will be indicated? Or will it be just crazy skirmish until enemy navy is down?

    Good luck with the game, I'm so in love with WWII submarine simulations that I can't wait to get myself on surface along some Paradox game
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    First Lieutenant
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    US navy does research and experiments on rail guns, but with little success. So in near future we are stuck with missiles and torpedoes/depth charges as well as airplanes.

  3. #3
    You can select your own level of micromanagement in the game, at a group or individual vessel level. You can parameter constrain AI sensible choise actions, or, if you want, go into any individual weapon platform and manage particular load outs against particular targets.

    There will be no secret 2030 V2 version, everything in the game is either in existence today, or on the drawing board and in the public domain.

    Advancement is shown as waypoint lines for groups, and there is a separate formation editor/manager for units that sort inside it, so you have both central positions of leader vessels, and all others in relation to it.

    Finding the enemy has to do with wise use of sensors. These can detect at long distances, but the detections may be wrong or incomplete. Several detections are advised to know for sure.

    So in Naval War, there is no fog of war, and you may know about an enemy way out, while being oblivious to a posing treat right over your horizon.

    Hope this somewhat answers some of the Qs.

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    Rocker moth Wave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xmasbeer View Post
    US navy does research and experiments on rail guns, but with little success. So in near future we are stuck with missiles and torpedoes/depth charges as well as airplanes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiralissimo
    There will be no secret 2030 V2 version, everything in the game is either in existence today, or on the drawing board and in the public domain.
    The 2030 year's version of V2 missile was just an example but there is Chinese anti-carrier missile (probably in proto testings or something but announced to exist already) which is pretty impressive as it should have enough power to take down whole carrier with one missile and it can be fired even before you can see the ship in the horizon.

    and this:

    You can select your own level of micromanagement in the game, at a group or individual vessel level. You can parameter constrain AI sensible choise actions, or, if you want, go into any individual weapon platform and manage particular load outs against particular targets.
    sounds epic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wave View Post
    The 2030 year's version of V2 missile was just an example but there is Chinese anti-carrier missile (probably in proto testings or something but announced to exist already) which is pretty impressive as it should have enough power to take down whole carrier with one missile and it can be fired even before you can see the ship in the horizon.
    If you want to take down a nimitz aircraft carrier that is protected by a strike group, then you best bet is not something that China has as prototype, but what Sweden had for many years:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khaa3y0i87s

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Wave View Post
    The 2030 year's version of V2 missile was just an example but there is Chinese anti-carrier missile (probably in proto testings or something but announced to exist already) which is pretty impressive as it should have enough power to take down whole carrier with one missile and it can be fired even before you can see the ship in the horizon.
    Yes, gotcha. Was unclear there for a second. There are some things like that, and we monitor what we know as it progresses. We include things a) if it seems likely to become reality (very subjective call I know ), b) if we feel we have enough info to make it work semi-correctly, and c) if it keeps the game balance in place.

    If in dubt, game play is always king!

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    Steady hand in uncertain times Demi Moderator RedRalphWiggum's Avatar

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    Can planes and missiles enter a battle from an unseen land base?

  8. #8
    Land based planes and missiles, yes. Unknown, no. At least not in the scenarios that play out over short time spans and where airports, missile arrays and naval bases are considered known by the factions

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    We base the damage model of ships loosely on the research and limited combat experience available in the age of missiles. Very roughly speaking, it takes one large warhead (ie any anti-ship cruise missile (ASCM), or bomb) to kill a modern warship up to 300 feet long (~100m), and another warhead per additional 100 feet of length. Thus, a patrol boat or corvette type ship can be destroyed with one hit, a cruiser three and an aircraft carrier will need seven hits (Naval Institute Proceedings, Oct 1985). These are average values, and we have a slightly more complex damage model including components and fires, but you get the idea.

    There is an argument that the destructive power of ASCMs is more related to kinetic energy (speed at impact) than the actual payload. We'll likely model that by making the hitpoints suffered from these missiles higher.

    From what we've seen, it appears heavyweight torpedoes are between 1.5 and 2 missile warhead equivalents.

    This is a firepower kill, which will leave a useless hull (that can be salvaged and repaired), however for the intents of this game, we'll consider a firepower kill a sinking, since towing, repair and all that is way beyond the scope of our game.

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    Turbo Tape Games Dev JanH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRalphWiggum View Post
    Can planes and missiles enter a battle from an unseen land base?
    That's a good question. We have so far assumed airfields and land bases are always known and visible to the enemy, but there is really no reason they can't be secret. Not sure if we'll actually do that, but at least I think it could be done through modding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JanH View Post
    This is a firepower kill, which will leave a useless hull (that can be salvaged and repaired), however for the intents of this game, we'll consider a firepower kill a sinking, since towing, repair and all that is way beyond the scope of our game.
    Consider bording and salvaging or taking POW as a means to get a bit resources, or maybe interogate POW for the enemy ship's position at the time right before attack.... something tactical like that would be nice.

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    Finding the enemy has to do with wise use of sensors. These can detect at long distances, but the detections may be wrong or incomplete. Several detections are advised to know for sure.
    This means NO satellites for US and RUS )) Other way the entire map would be opened from the very beginning.

    That's a good question. We have so far assumed airfields and land bases are always known and visible to the enemy, but there is really no reason they can't be secret. Not sure if we'll actually do that, but at least I think it could be done through modding.
    yeah, like in Fleet Command you always know the bases and airports ( it's actually very logical and realistic ) but you never know enemy aircraft position and that the point of finding it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxRiga View Post
    This means NO satellites for US and RUS )) Other way the entire map would be opened from the very beginning.
    Not at all.

    Communication sattelites are in geostationary orbit. That means that they are fixed on one location all the time.

    Surveilance sattelites used by governments are usually low orbit sattelites that can only see the area that they pass over. Actually the fact that you have to wait for a sattelite to be over area, could add a tactical element to the game wher you have sattelite cooldown, and when you use it, it only uncovers area in a linear path.

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    Rocker moth Wave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xmasbeer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JanH
    This is a firepower kill, which will leave a useless hull (that can be salvaged and repaired), however for the intents of this game, we'll consider a firepower kill a sinking, since towing, repair and all that is way beyond the scope of our game.
    Consider bording and salvaging or taking POW as a means to get a bit resources, or maybe interogate POW for the enemy ship's position at the time right before attack.... something tactical like that would be nice.
    Well, towing has happened in big real naval battles like in Midway 1942.. and my opinion is that trying to get badly damaged ship out of the battle zone and prevent it from sinking and repairing it later is, especially in cases of bigger ships like carriers, much more realistic than letting it sink. I understand that simply making it straight battle like all RTS games have is much easier to make and play, you don't see soldiers helping each other in Medieval: Total War.. And without you saying it there, I doubt that anyone would have thought about it

    Also POWs aren't uncommon in naval battles but these days nobody sails near enough enemies to take POWs as you'll have a lot of lead raining on you very soon
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  15. #15
    just to chime in (sorry if this has already been said), but the Americans have actually built a proper Railgun, and they are now equipping it to at least 1 destroyer per battlegroup.

    Fires a 30 pound steel encased high explosive shell at over Mach 6 (reported to be Mach 8+) in a straight line. Able to penetrate the thickest armour.


    Also, just confirming what another person said, China has also got a 900mile range missile that can take down the USA's largest carriers in one hit.

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    Rocker moth Wave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegerman2008 View Post
    just to chime in (sorry if this has already been said), but the Americans have actually built a proper Railgun, and they are now equipping it to at least 1 destroyer per battlegroup.

    Fires a 30 pound steel encased high explosive shell at over Mach 6 (reported to be Mach 8+) in a straight line. Able to penetrate the thickest armour.


    Also, just confirming what another person said, China has also got a 900mile range missile that can take down the USA's largest carriers in one hit.
    I can't say anything else but world is becoming crazy place.. Seriously, 30 pounds of steel moving 6000 - 8000 kilometers per hour???

    I'm studying electric engineering and I think I know what I'm starting to build in school..
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  17. #17
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    You heard correct. Also if you are studying electric engineering, you might have heard of Lorentz force. A rail gun can accelerate projectiles at 6000m per second.

    Also either you are leaking classified information, or I have outdated info. US navy reports that they have prototypes, and expect railguns to be deployed in no less than 10 years. Please provide any reliable source for your info that they are already deploying it on destroyers.

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