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Hello everyone, I'm Tegus, one of the programmers working on Crusader
Kings II. Welcome to the fifth dev diary for CK2 and the first one written
by me. In today's dev diary I'm going to talk a bit about the map and why
we've chosen to implement a new one in CK2.

As you all know, in our games the map is an important tool for both
displaying information and setting the mood of the game. In HoI3 we had a
grayish map that we felt was appropriate for a war game. We took this map
and altered it slightly when making Victoria 2, but this time the map was
drawn with vivid colors to portray the progress of the era. The next game to
use the map was Divine Wind because we all felt that EU3 was in need of a
graphical face lift. While this map technology looked good in the
mentioned games, there were certain technological limitations which we
wanted to improve upon or get rid of.

With CK2, we have devoted time to rewrite the graphics code for the map
from scratch. We are back to a pure 3D map similar to the one used in EU3:
Rome. We have visible topology and you will be able to rotate the world
around the way you please. While neither the technology nor the art assets
are in any way final, we do feel that the new map already has great
potential and is a big step in the right direction towards our visual
goals. Hopefully this new tech will also span multiple games, so we
can steadily improve it.

crusader_kings_2_devdiary_5_ss1.jpg

To be fair, if I would describe what we have done with the map so far, it
would just be sentence after sentence of technical mumbo-jumbo, so I'll
spare you the details. Let's instead focus on what visual details that
have been improved and what we want to add before the game is shipped.

We've improved the looks of the water significantly and added refraction
so you can actually see topology under the ocean surface. Aerie has taken
the time to find real-world topology data(although we've exaggerated it
somewhat), it definitely gives a cool feel to the terrain. Borders have
also gotten some love and now use a new system which enables us to make
them much smoother. Much of the previous jaggedness is gone. We've also
begun to implement and test a more detailed lighting model, which we will
continue to improve upon until we release the game. Another cool
feature(which isn't really part of the map) are the units, whose tabards
now show the heraldic flag of the unit leader.

crusader_kings_2_devdiary_5_ss2.jpg

But there are still some things which we're missing. We need trees and
rivers. We need to add province names and realm names, which exist in all
our latest games. I'd like to add more information to borders, so borders
between two realms are colored by the realms' respective colors. There are
of course lots of more things we want to do, but I won't spill the beans
just yet.

crusader_kings_2_devdiary_5_ss3.jpg

All in all, we are very happy with the way the new map is coming along.
Hopefully you will enjoy it as well once you get to play the game!

Fredrik Zetterman, Deluxe programmer, currently working on Crusader Kings
II
 
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Raz0r said:
Hm i'm, not really impressed by the map so far. To be honest i have to say don't like this kind of 3D map. In terms of graphics its imo far behind of other games for example the Total War Series. But i don't want to judge on it before i see some more final screens. ;)

Maybe a possibilty to switch to a 2D map would be nice...
Click to expand...

Bu tthe Total War Series has a a 3D map. So either you feel that you don't like the kind of map seen in Total War or you think our switch to a 3D map is nice.
 
Calgacus said:
That's kinda disappointing to hear, I gotta be honest. The province set-up in CK1 was pretty problematic, as far as historical accuracy goes. Pretty much the whole life of CK1 we were told it was impossible to fix the map, and a lot of research from various people on the boards went into improving it recently for map mods. Now you seem to be saying "well, we ignored it and you'll be stuck with the same map for the sequel".
Click to expand...

Doomdark said:
Changing province borders is trivial, and I expect further corrections will be made once the Alpha phase kicks off.
Click to expand...

What Doomdark says, and perhaps I should have written "right now" instead of crushing everyone's hopes ;)
 
Like many players, I spend about 90% of my time in political mode. So while I like the new topographical map a lot, I'm really curious/anxious/excited to see some more screenies of the political map, since that's what I'll likely be staring at for hours on end. Please? :)
 
AlexanderPrimus said:
Like many players, I spend about 90% of my time in political mode. So while I like the new topographical map a lot, I'm really curious/anxious/excited to see some more screenies of the political map, since that's what I'll likely be staring at for hours on end. Please? :)
Click to expand...

Yes, most players (including me) tend to use the political map mode all the time. That is a shame and not really the way forward, IMO. The ambition is to make the terrain mode more useful, with enough political information that a separate map mode is not really needed.
 
Doomdark said:
Yes, most players (including me) tend to use the political map mode all the time. That is a shame and not really the way forward, IMO. The ambition is to make the terrain mode more useful, with enough political information that a separate map mode is not really needed.
Click to expand...

Does this mean that there will be no political map mode?
 
Tegus said:
We're toying with the idea, we'll see what we'll end up with :)
Click to expand...

Cool... might be sort of hard with small provinces though.

Doomdark said:
Yes, most players (including me) tend to use the political map mode all the time. That is a shame and not really the way forward, IMO. The ambition is to make the terrain mode more useful, with enough political information that a separate map mode is not really needed.
Click to expand...

Would be really cool if you could pull it off.
 
Doomdark said:
Yes, most players (including me) tend to use the political map mode all the time. That is a shame and not really the way forward, IMO. The ambition is to make the terrain mode more useful, with enough political information that a separate map mode is not really needed.
Click to expand...

Playing the devil's advocate here, but if 99% of the time you're playing in political mapmode, then you shouldn't add political information to the terrain mapmode, but rather add terrain information to the political mapmode. In the end, the terrain mapmode is the obsolete one, not the political one. :)

Oh, V2 did this very nicely, I actually never used the terrain mapmode there (so far).
 
Zechariah Zevi said:
Does this mean that there will be no political map mode?
Click to expand...

We'll see. Just like we add mapmodes for different gameplay mechanics when needed, political mapmode will be there if we feel a need for it. If we however manage to improve terrain mode so much that you don't want/need to play in political mapmode, it might be removed. Time will tell :)
 
Tegus said:
We'll see. Just like we add mapmodes for different gameplay mechanics when needed, political mapmode will be there if we feel a need for it. If we however manage to improve terrain mode so much that you don't want/need to play in political mapmode, it might be removed. Time will tell :)
Click to expand...

I suppose they could add 2 types of political map modes, regular and advanced. The regular shows only thin colored borders, while advanced is the traditional color-filled that we are used to seeing. Perhaps, it could be a simple checkbox for color-filled provinces.
 
I understand that you want to pretty the game's graphics up but really, I can't imagine a Paradox game without a political map. I'd be very disappointed if this was missing from the game

safferli said:
Playing the devil's advocate here, but if 99% of the time you're playing in political mapmode, then you shouldn't add political information to the terrain mapmode, but rather add terrain information to the political mapmode. In the end, the terrain mapmode is the obsolete one, not the political one. :)
Click to expand...
This is exactly what I was going to say. I only ever care about terrain when fighting wars (and not even then, I'm a terrible general) so I wouldn't want to spend 90% of my time in that map mode. I'd far to work off the political map mode, not least because it just looks more 'map-like'
 
RedRalphWiggum said:
But if the two could be integrated... there are elements of the terrain map on the V2 political map, that could be developed so you only needed one. It'd be brilliant
Click to expand...

It is developed so that you only need the political map in V2! ;) The terrain map in V2 is pretty useless, except for looking gorgeous for reviewers.
 
safferli said:
It is developed so that you only need the political map in V2! ;) The terrain map in V2 is pretty useless, except for looking gorgeous for reviewers.
Click to expand...

It could be taken further though, make the two totally integrated. I hear what you're saying but we do lose some of the visuals of the terrain map on political...
 
RedRalphWiggum said:
But if the two could be integrated... there are elements of the terrain map on the V2 political map, that could be developed so you only needed one. It'd be brilliant
Click to expand...

I second that. Of all the Paradox games that I own, I played with terrain mode the longest in Rome. Maybe for CK2 only the borders of political entities could be of a special color. Also, in CK1 adjacent independent realms (whether kingdoms, duchies, or counties) had identical colors on the political map mode, which became very confusing. So more variety in color would be nice.

As to the Total War maps, I always thought that they looked sort of ugly, but that has to do I think with the uneven spacing of settlements, with a lot of fog of war even within your own domain. CK2 will have defined provinces and nicer looking sprites, so it should not be a problem IMO.

As to map items, I would like to see individual settlements or at least get some sense of where population is denser than in other places. A province that is mostly towns should look different from one that is mostly castles, ideally. So far I am very impressed with what I have seen of planned features. Keep up the good work.

/Rooster
 
RedRalphWiggum said:
It could be taken further though, make the two totally integrated. I hear what you're saying but we do lose some of the visuals of the terrain map on political...
Click to expand...

And? You don't lose information, which is what the political map is all about. :)
 
Given the effort put into the physical map, I surmise that terrain is going to have a big part to play in CK2. I hope that this extends beyond just warfare into other aspects of life.
 
RedRalphWiggum said:
Visuals do matter Safferli, even if not to you... If you can have a political map which gives you the info but also looks even better, I can't imagine why anyone would oppose it.
Click to expand...

I agree here, but better looking usually does not equal better (quicker) information access. That's why I like the terrain map: the reviewers can be pleased by adding all sorts of bells and whistles to the terrain map, and the players can be pleased by not cluttering/distracting from the actual information. You can have churches, with bells and growing depending on the size of the church building in the province, fisheries, whatever floats the artist's boat (think Settlers for the cute animations). All that on the terrain map. Would I want anything of that on the political map? Hell no, animated sheep grazing would only distract from my main goal: digesting information at a glance.

Again, I'm not one of the "I don't want any graphics, only gameplay" people. Personally, I like prettier more than less, so I'm all for better visuals -- up to a point. Terrain map in V2 gives you the "awwwww" feeling: it's simply gorgeous. But would I want to use it for gameplay? No, a simple, less intruding terrain layer on the political does that even better.
 
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