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Hello everyone, I'm Tegus, one of the programmers working on Crusader
Kings II. Welcome to the fifth dev diary for CK2 and the first one written
by me. In today's dev diary I'm going to talk a bit about the map and why
we've chosen to implement a new one in CK2.

As you all know, in our games the map is an important tool for both
displaying information and setting the mood of the game. In HoI3 we had a
grayish map that we felt was appropriate for a war game. We took this map
and altered it slightly when making Victoria 2, but this time the map was
drawn with vivid colors to portray the progress of the era. The next game to
use the map was Divine Wind because we all felt that EU3 was in need of a
graphical face lift. While this map technology looked good in the
mentioned games, there were certain technological limitations which we
wanted to improve upon or get rid of.

With CK2, we have devoted time to rewrite the graphics code for the map
from scratch. We are back to a pure 3D map similar to the one used in EU3:
Rome. We have visible topology and you will be able to rotate the world
around the way you please. While neither the technology nor the art assets
are in any way final, we do feel that the new map already has great
potential and is a big step in the right direction towards our visual
goals. Hopefully this new tech will also span multiple games, so we
can steadily improve it.

crusader_kings_2_devdiary_5_ss1.jpg

To be fair, if I would describe what we have done with the map so far, it
would just be sentence after sentence of technical mumbo-jumbo, so I'll
spare you the details. Let's instead focus on what visual details that
have been improved and what we want to add before the game is shipped.

We've improved the looks of the water significantly and added refraction
so you can actually see topology under the ocean surface. Aerie has taken
the time to find real-world topology data(although we've exaggerated it
somewhat), it definitely gives a cool feel to the terrain. Borders have
also gotten some love and now use a new system which enables us to make
them much smoother. Much of the previous jaggedness is gone. We've also
begun to implement and test a more detailed lighting model, which we will
continue to improve upon until we release the game. Another cool
feature(which isn't really part of the map) are the units, whose tabards
now show the heraldic flag of the unit leader.

crusader_kings_2_devdiary_5_ss2.jpg

But there are still some things which we're missing. We need trees and
rivers. We need to add province names and realm names, which exist in all
our latest games. I'd like to add more information to borders, so borders
between two realms are colored by the realms' respective colors. There are
of course lots of more things we want to do, but I won't spill the beans
just yet.

crusader_kings_2_devdiary_5_ss3.jpg

All in all, we are very happy with the way the new map is coming along.
Hopefully you will enjoy it as well once you get to play the game!

Fredrik Zetterman, Deluxe programmer, currently working on Crusader Kings
II
 
No more English England then? :D

That is one thing I'd like to get rid of. The problem is that we look at cores to determine which "territory" you are in. The root of that problem(using EU3 as an example) is that we have the continents defined for all provinces, but not much more than that. If we have time to add sub-regions(which don't have a gameplay effect) we could add Iberia, Anatolia etc, and then you could spawn names from that.
 
Yes, hopefully we'll even have some time to improve them as well. I really like the map names and since we have them in all our other games I think it would feel empty without them :)

Cool... hopefully they can be more tied to regions and less to cores os we get less 'Polish Golden horde' etc... I was very skeptical about the whole concept when it first came about but actually it's really cool. Maybe you could use the dynasty name instead of the country's? So 'Habpsburg Bohemia' instead of 'Austrian Bohemia'...

EDIT: Lying on the floor covered in Emu feathers
 
Yes, hopefully we'll even have some time to improve them as well. I really like the map names and since we have them in all our other games I think it would feel empty without them :)

There is a localisation problem in EU3 thus.
It show [owner adjective] [part of world]. While it work in English without problem, it's not the case of all languages (and it don't work at all in French, where the owner adjective should be after the part of the world).
If possible, it could be good if the map labels where put on localisation csv files under $country_adj$ $region$ format, so whe could use appropriate grammar for others languages (MAPLABEL;$country_adj$ $region$;$region$ $country_adj$; etc. so it would perfectly work in French).

Thanks in advance.

Cool... hopefully they can be more tied to regions and less to cores os we get less 'Polish Golden horde' etc... I was very skeptical about the whole concept when it first came about but actually it's really cool. Maybe you could use the dynasty name instead of the country's? So 'Habpsburg Bohemia' instead of 'Austrian Bohemia'...

EDIT: Lying on the floor covered in Emu feathers

Ah, yes... good idea. A dynastic labels, at last in a dynastic map, could be very useful.
 
Cool... hopefully they can be more tied to regions and less to cores os we get less 'Polish Golden horde' etc... I was very skeptical about the whole concept when it first came about but actually it's really cool. Maybe you could use the dynasty name instead of the country's? So 'Habpsburg Bohemia' instead of 'Austrian Bohemia'...

EDIT: Lying on the floor covered in Emu feathers

The country name algorithm is fairly fast, so we could probably do some nifty things depending on what mode you're in. So if you view entire realms, we print country names. But if you view your demesne, maybe we could print dynasty names or the actual holder's name. I think it would be fun to play around with it and see what we can come up with.
 
There is a localisation problem in EU3 thus.
It show [owner adjective] [part of world]. While it work in english without problem, it's not the case of all languages (and it don't work at all in french, where the owner adjective should be after the part of the world).
If possible, it could be good if the map labels where put on localisation csv files under $country_adj$ $region$ format, so whe could use appropriate grammar for others languages (MAPLABEL;$country_adj$ $region$;$region$ $country_adj$; etc. so it would perfectly work in French).

Thanks in advance.

Noted, shouldn't be to hard to fix, thanks!
 
The country name algorithm is fairly fast, so we could probably do some nifty things depending on what mode you're in. So if you view entire realms, we print country names. But if you view your demesne, maybe we could print dynasty names or the actual holder's name. I think it would be fun to play around with it and see what we can come up with.

Could have the 1-100 reputation scores on your kingdom view as well (for the holder's of the province), makes it simple to see who likes you, and where they are located.
 
Starting with the hype so soon?

It is keeping up the hype that concerns me. ;) Everything sounds so great IMO, but it's still a year away. Maybe the hype will come in waves: It was big when the game was first announced, then got ramped up again with the latest dev diaries, starting with succession laws. We already have the roots of a good modding and playing community, so there should be some great things coming out that way too. Like a medieval army, we have to keep ranks and do our best not to charge until our captains give the order. :D
 
You've said you would like to have all province names using the native spelling, including special unicode characters. This interests me...

I know it logically applies only to latin script using languages but still - do you mean it? Like everywhere? French, for example, has some wonky characters. Turkish even moreso. And than you have Slavic languages (Polish, Czech and most of the Baltic languages use latin). So this means CK will be the first Paradox game that tries to spell the names right?

Does this apply to character names also? For example, o Bohemian king might be named Jiri without special characters, but Jiří with them. More significantly, the ruling dynasty is Premyslid in English, but Přemyslovec in Czech... if it is a guy. Female surnames in Slavic languages get more complicated, in this case it would be "Přemyslovna".

Looks like a terrible chore to get it right, and might be even hated by English players. I'm anxiously watching how it'll turn out ;)
 
You've said you would like to have all province names using the native spelling, including special unicode characters. This interests me...

I know it logically applies only to latin script using languages but still - do you mean it? Like everywhere? French, for example, has some wonky characters. Turkish even moreso. And than you have Slavic languages (Polish, Czech and most of the Baltic languages use latin). So this means CK will be the first Paradox game that tries to spell the names right?

Does this apply to character names also? For example, o Bohemian king might be named Jiri without special characters, but Jiří with them. More significantly, the ruling dynasty is Premyslid in English, but Přemyslovec in Czech... if it is a guy. Female surnames in Slavic languages get more complicated, in this case it would be "Přemyslovna".

Looks like a terrible chore to get it right, and might be even hated by English players. I'm anxiously watching how it'll turn out ;)

Well, if that is how it is to go, I would also say that province names should change depending on the culture of the liege or the culture: at least in historical cases (a slippery item I know): so to take an example, should London's name change based on who wins the three-way contest that begins the 1066 seminar?
 
Maybe you could use the dynasty name instead of the country's? So 'Habpsburg Bohemia' instead of 'Austrian Bohemia'...

I think it is depend on type of country. If it is Empire or Kingdom then do not necessary add owners name. Vladimir Monamakh's Russia? No.
But maybe good for small territories. Yaropolk's Tver.

And more interesting, what to do if Russia and Poland have same person as king They are still different countries. What label should write
1) Huge label "Russia and Poland", or "Kingdom of Russia and Poland" with king's home country at front.
2) Separated labels "Russia", "Poland". boring
3) Separated labels "Russia", "Russian Poland". (Vic2 style) boring for CK
4) "Ivan IV Rurikovich's Poland" and "Russia" not common style to both countries. but maybe
 
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very nice changes, the map looks great so far and the possibility to rotate it it's a very good addiction... how much will these new graphics influence the game performances?
 
Cool... hopefully they can be more tied to regions and less to cores os we get less 'Polish Golden horde' etc... I was very skeptical about the whole concept when it first came about but actually it's really cool. Maybe you could use the dynasty name instead of the country's? So 'Habpsburg Bohemia' instead of 'Austrian Bohemia'...

EDIT: Lying on the floor covered in Emu feathers

While I agree with the concept, I strongly object against the chosen example, because in those times it was more like Premyslid Austria :p
 
You've said you would like to have all province names using the native spelling, including special unicode characters. This interests me...

I know it logically applies only to latin script using languages but still - do you mean it? Like everywhere? French, for example, has some wonky characters. Turkish even moreso. And than you have Slavic languages (Polish, Czech and most of the Baltic languages use latin). So this means CK will be the first Paradox game that tries to spell the names right?

Does this apply to character names also? For example, o Bohemian king might be named Jiri without special characters, but Jiří with them. More significantly, the ruling dynasty is Premyslid in English, but Přemyslovec in Czech... if it is a guy. Female surnames in Slavic languages get more complicated, in this case it would be "Přemyslovna".

Looks like a terrible chore to get it right, and might be even hated by English players. I'm anxiously watching how it'll turn out ;)

And pleaſe do not forget the long s (ſ), for an –optional– medieval feeling. The short s (s) was only uſed as the firſt or the laſt character of a word IIRC.
 
I had the misfortune to waste some my life reading more posts wondering why we aren't making the map 2D. 3D maps are not a fad and not some thing that is going to go away. If you are of those people who a more interested in graphics rather game play, who values a 2D map so highly then I am sorry CK2 and future Paradox games are simply not for you. Please do not buy them because I don't want to have to deal with your disapointed posts afterwards. If we are showing screenshots of a 3D map and publically posting that we feel that for the very future of the genre we must embrace new graphic technologies then no ammount of posts by you will cause the map to go 2D. Now my patience with this is comming to an end. It is now reaching the point where you are spamming up this thread and preventing people with questions other than why don't you make your games like you did 5 years ago because I am some sort of Neo-Luddite and very soon I will be treating further posts on this issue as spam.
 
I had the misfortune to waste some my life reading more posts wondering why we aren't making the map 2D. 3D maps are not a fad and not some thing that is going to go away. If you are of those people who a more interested in graphics rather game play, who values a 2D map so highly then I am sorry CK2 and future Paradox games are simply not for you. Please do not buy them because I don't want to have to deal with your disapointed posts afterwards. If we are showing screenshots of a 3D map and publically posting that we feel that for the very future of the genre we must embrace new graphic technologies then no ammount of posts by you will cause the map to go 2D. Now my patience with this is comming to an end. It is now reaching the point where you are spamming up this thread and preventing people with questions other than why don't you make your games like you did 5 years ago because I am some sort of Neo-Luddite and very soon I will be treating further posts on this issue as spam.

Don't worry, people are just conservative to the point of being reactionary and they need to be draged into this kicking and screaming to realize, that it is in fact better. That is of course as long as the gameplay remains the same ;)
 
You don't understand only last small thing. If someone from this discussions say that he likes 2-D (not me). It only means that hard-worked high-quality 2D with a human souls is much more better than 3-D (or 100-D) with the dirty and ugly graphics and with terrible soldiers miniatures. That's it.

I'm sorry it's shame to post this in 2011 year with such pride like in the 1st post, and telling about innovations. I'm sorry it's true. Its 8-bit gameboy zombies strikes from the swamps.

And YES. I like 3-D very much as you too.