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Thread: Magicka is an Internet Connection killer?

  1. #1
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    Magicka is an Internet Connection killer?

    To explain this quite well I will paste a complaint I made to steam regarding Magicka:

    "Hello,

    I today bought, downloaded and started to play Magicka. Singleplayer works flawlessly indefinately. However Multiplayer has an effect on my computer/internet connection which is terrifying me.

    Every time I try to join a friend's game, or host a game and a friend tries to join, the Internet, at least of my computer, dies entirely - but not all at once. Slowly, different programs lose connection, and then skype (and my active call).
    We've tried joining with hamachi instead (LAN) and it worked once, but due to a bug (my friend dying at the start of the tutorial due to fall damage being bugged) we needed to restart - we think this is because of lag.

    Oddly, when I'm in a skype call and refresh the Magicka serverlist, if my friend is talking all of the pings are usually way above the norm (200+) and if he isn't talking for more than a second they are more usual (approx 50-150). I have never had such an issue before with any game. Why is magicka/steam ruining my internet connection? Why after I attempt to join a game do programs lose connection to the internet and then my PC's internet die entirely?


    Also, if one of us tried to connect to the other, we get a "timed out" message sometimes, other times a "authentication failed". And note we are playing version 1.3.3.3 which was released approx an hour ago I think."


    Today the same issue, along with other bugs - be it for game bugs, steam incompatibility or mere lag:
    • Progressing a level tends to make bugs more common. As in the host sees a friend shooting a weapon while on the other person's screen, it stopped already.
    • A shield being active on a person on one screen, and for the other person it is off - and then seems to be off when it's on. Waiting for the shield to expire corrects the issue.
    • Fall damage bugging and people fall from higher heights - thereby dying. The jumping enemies often have this too, sometimes projecting to land on solid ground in the middle of the map - but actually falling through and off the map. (As far as I know, only the person joining the game can be dealt such damage, but enemies fall through the map for all players including the host).
    • A more common version of the above occurrence are weapons and staffs falling through the earth or into hills. (for the person joining the game and the host)
    • Weapons bugging - sometimes duplicating - more often than not simply shaking about and being hard to click (for the person joining the game and the host).
    • I best make this one an example: A person stays behind upstairs in chapter 1 where we start, the other continues onwards. The person staying behind is never seen again. Then it tells him he is defeated. This is possible at many places where the team leaves an area. It seems they disappear as if they were thrown off the map, sometimes they can be revived later - but without their acquired staff/weapon. (For joining person or host).
    • Staff abilities not working properly for joining player nor host. Character does correct gesture when clicked (such as summoning the living trees) but nothing happens, then later when trying again they can be summoned. It always seems to take 2 spell attempts to work? (For joining person or host).


    There are more but I don't want to mention them at the moment. These need fixing. Alone the fact that when trying to join a game or host (and then someone tries to join), my internet of the entire pc usually dies, is horrific. Today at least my pc has restored its internet automatically after a few minutes without a reboot.


    Fix your gorgeous little game please.
    Last edited by Alcatar; 30-01-2011 at 15:50.

  2. #2
    the main reason for this multiplayer latency is;

    The budget is tight and they could probably not afford a big dedicated server hosting all connections.

    This will probably be improved later on, but keep in mind that its a newely released indie game. And its working quite well, and patches are being released daily.

  3. #3
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    Ah, so we're possibly not only waiting for patches but also increased infrastructure.
    Multiplayer is not working well at all at the moment though, at least not for anyone I know. But why is the latency eating my internet connection to the point that my PC loses connectivity to the internet entirely? Makes no sense?

    It's just a bug I rarely see, as in never.

  4. #4
    Ok wait i think i got you wrong, and you got me wrong :P.


    Im having no problem at all hosting and, or joining multiplayer games. Having a bit lag in challenge mode. But managed to get through chapter 1-12 with 3 people without any lag. Its not KILLING my internet, but its taking alot from it. Never had it shutdown because of the game but noticed less internet activity.

    But there will probably be a fix for your problem shortly, they are obviously doing all they can.

  5. #5
    Hosting a magicka game makes my router die for some reason, internet drops across the network. I'm guessing it's being overwhelmed by packets of one type or another. I'd put my money on the devs not writing proper code for NAT transversal.

  6. #6
    Well im not having this problem at all. Dont know tho.

  7. #7
    Yep, happens to me to. Using the current version (Patch #4) on Steam to connect to friends' games (using the "Join Game" function of Steam, because the browser's usability is beyond redemption) - if I get the "Timeout" bug (?), my router and the whole network die within seconds, demanding a complete reset.
    Otherwise, the router sloooowly gets clogged up, resulting in lags during play, dieing programs and, worse, people with torches and pitchforks screaming at me.

    Apparently, there are connections that are being opened but never closed.

    My router's a Netgear. It sucks, but usually it works. As long as I just play singleplayer, the people in my network don't try to kill me...


    Fun fact for those saying "I never had any lag" - we just tried out with people w/o router: Even those games had some lag peaks at "events", where a large amount of monsters appear.
    4 people, 3 using routers, host behind router: Lag
    4 people, 3 using routers, host w/o router: Lag
    2 people, 2 using routers: Lag
    2 people, 1 using router, host w/o router: Lag
    --> Lags all the way, which turn the game into a nice screensaver. Run around, not killing anything, only to see huge amounts of numbers when the lag stops. Of course you die, watching the numbers, since most of them are damage dealt to you.

  8. #8
    I have played this game with multiple friends at different times. Eventually, I do encounter the issues of which you speak, but the game runs flawlessly online for me for ~2 full levels before desyncing problems or an outright disconnect occurs. If you are in the same situation as I am, just try leaving and rejoining after each chapter. Online works perfectly for me when I do this.

  9. #9
    Ive had this same problem where the internet 'dies' on my whole computer after refreshing the server list more than 3 or so times, it takes around 2-5 mins for it to come back, i didnt know a game could have that sort of effect, and oddly enough, skype was the only thing that was using the internet fine while it was dead.

  10. #10
    Yep, I can confirm it happens to me too. When I host, my internet connection dies and all the players at my server get their game crashing.

  11. #11
    Okay, this matter is serious and it should damn well be a top prio fix.

    I've have times disconnecting from a game completely turn off my internet, I had to restart my router.
    And an even more serious issue, when refreshing the game list page, one time my entire computer crashed. it just turned off completely, restarting itself. It almost burned my keyboard.

    It is unacceptable that a game will put your computer at risk in manners like this.

  12. #12
    It almost burned my keyboard.
    I'm not sure exactly how to interpret this. But, hopefully it falls into one of these categories, as quoted from the most recent changelog post (1/30):

    We've been prioritizing stability, network code and show-stopper issues.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by 38dedo View Post
    Okay, this matter is serious and it should damn well be a top prio fix.

    I've have times disconnecting from a game completely turn off my internet, I had to restart my router.
    And an even more serious issue, when refreshing the game list page, one time my entire computer crashed. it just turned off completely, restarting itself. It almost burned my keyboard.

    It is unacceptable that a game will put your computer at risk in manners like this.


    This isnt the game being bad, this is your computer sucking anus.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by 38dedo View Post
    Okay, this matter is serious and it should damn well be a top prio fix.

    I've have times disconnecting from a game completely turn off my internet, I had to restart my router.
    And an even more serious issue, when refreshing the game list page, one time my entire computer crashed. it just turned off completely, restarting itself. It almost burned my keyboard.

    It is unacceptable that a game will put your computer at risk in manners like this.
    Hmm.. i wrote this at 6 am, now that I look at it its just plain bulls!@t.

    Anyway, my computer did restart itself, im not sure its because its bad, I played much much heavier games quite smoothly, and obviously, if scrolling around in the games list of online hosted game made it restart, something was wrong.

    And no, burning the keyboard was mistaken. (no idea why i wrote it) but my keyboard did stop working until i unplugged and replugged it in back to the USB.

    Don't take me wrong, i'm euphoric about this game, and am confident in the patching to come.
    I simply stated my situation, and evidentially, I was rather upset when i wrote it, not to mention drowsy after 5 hours of sleep.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzmond View Post
    Hosting a magicka game makes my router die for some reason, internet drops across the network. I'm guessing it's being overwhelmed by packets of one type or another. I'd put my money on the devs not writing proper code for NAT transversal.

    ^^^^^^ THIS!






    Quote Originally Posted by Elbi View Post
    Yep, happens to me to. Using the current version (Patch #4) on Steam to connect to friends' games (using the "Join Game" function of Steam, because the browser's usability is beyond redemption) - if I get the "Timeout" bug (?), my router and the whole network die within seconds, demanding a complete reset.
    Otherwise, the router sloooowly gets clogged up, resulting in lags during play, dieing programs and, worse, people with torches and pitchforks screaming at me.

    Apparently, there are connections that are being opened but never closed.

    My router's a Netgear. It sucks, but usually it works. As long as I just play singleplayer, the people in my network don't try to kill me...


    Fun fact for those saying "I never had any lag" - we just tried out with people w/o router: Even those games had some lag peaks at "events", where a large amount of monsters appear.
    4 people, 3 using routers, host behind router: Lag
    4 people, 3 using routers, host w/o router: Lag
    2 people, 2 using routers: Lag
    2 people, 1 using router, host w/o router: Lag
    --> Lags all the way, which turn the game into a nice screensaver. Run around, not killing anything, only to see huge amounts of numbers when the lag stops. Of course you die, watching the numbers, since most of them are damage dealt to you.

    Your test failed because of two reasons.

    1. Because the first poster I replied to is correct and the DEVS need a good re-work of their netcode. Netcode that functions brilliantly on LAN can often (and as is the case here) be completely brought to it's knees when NAT is involved.

    2. Because you never tested a connection where host and players were without routers. I'm betting that eventhough certain parts of the application-layer in Magick's netcode (network code has multiple LAYERS) might mimick client-server......the transport layer is probably very p2p-like and in other words for smoother connections requires BOTH client and host to have a NAT-relaxed state.


    In any case. The DEVS absolutely need to have better connection-state handling in their netcode (ie. code better for NAT-T as has already been stated). This should enable smoother p2p connection-state even when behind restrictive routers as well as prevent routers from "dying" (essentially becoming DOS'd) because too many connections are being opened and then not closed properly.the Monk

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by the Monk View Post
    Your test failed because of two reasons [...]
    I hope you're not disappointed, but I have to tell you, "I know" ^^

    I meddled with a client-server architecture for games once and... well, yeah, I can guess where the problems might be. (And I started wishing I'd become a carpenter instead...)
    Once you see the router dieing, it becomes quite obvious that some connections are created by the game but never closed, resulting in the DOS you mentioned. I guess the close signal for things like "Game already started" are sent by the server, ending up somewhere in the NAT, TTLing out, resulting in yet another connection (or bundle thereof) staying open.
    What bugs me, though, is that the router dies if "time out" is received as well. That HAS to be client side and still results in complete destruction of my infrastructure .O

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagatron View Post
    This isnt the game being bad, this is your computer sucking anus.
    TBH my PC probably eats yours for breakfast mate. How about you go dish your wisdom out where people can use it, such as a children's book forum perhaps.


    Quote Originally Posted by the Monk View Post
    ^^^^^^ THIS!

    ....

    In any case. The DEVS absolutely need to have better connection-state handling in their netcode (ie. code better for NAT-T as has already been stated). This should enable smoother p2p connection-state even when behind restrictive routers as well as prevent routers from "dying" (essentially becoming DOS'd) because too many connections are being opened and then not closed properly.the Monk
    This makes sense.
    Now lets hope the patching isn't held back due to any issues when porting through Steam. Dear, old, reliable Steam...
    Last edited by Alcatar; 31-01-2011 at 03:19.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Elbi View Post
    I hope you're not disappointed, but I have to tell you, "I know" ^^

    I meddled with a client-server architecture for games once and... well, yeah, I can guess where the problems might be. (And I started wishing I'd become a carpenter instead...)
    Once you see the router dieing, it becomes quite obvious that some connections are created by the game but never closed, resulting in the DOS you mentioned. I guess the close signal for things like "Game already started" are sent by the server, ending up somewhere in the NAT, TTLing out, resulting in yet another connection (or bundle thereof) staying open.
    What bugs me, though, is that the router dies if "time out" is received as well. That HAS to be client side and still results in complete destruction of my infrastructure .O

    Sorry if I came across as condescending.......I certainly did not intend that.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcatar View Post
    TBH my PC probably eats yours for breakfast mate. How about you go dish your wisdom out where people can use it, such as a children's book forum perhaps.
    If I'm allowed to speak: "one time my entire computer crashed. it just turned off completely, restarting itself" sounds like your PC overheated. A game usually can't restart anything, especially without asking. Your motherboard, however, might reboot if i.e. your CPU gets to hot.
    But Magicka shouldn't turn your computer into an oven, especially if it "eats [others] for breakfast". Your fans of coolness +2 should keep everything at a nice level, no matter whether Magicka is causing an endless loop and using 100% of your CPU or not.

    I can imagine that Magicka caused your computer to use 100% and your fans failed. Or one of your fans. Anyway, at least a mistake on both sides.

    The only other possibility I can think of ad hoc is that your PC didn't restart by itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by the Monk
    Sorry if I came across as condescending...
    Oh, no problem! You didn't, really. I just wanted to point out that I didn't wonder why the problem appeared, but check when it appeared. Reproducibility, some test cases we tried, 'n stuff

  20. #20
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    There seems to be a definite lack of understanding from some folks here on how networking and computers work in general. Software can absolutely cause a restart due to a crash, it's actually pretty easy to cause.

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