They had some very good hunting dogs back then.
I think the search for Weapons of Canine Destruction is a valid Casus Belli.
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
They had some very good hunting dogs back then.
I think the search for Weapons of Canine Destruction is a valid Casus Belli.
Chapter XXII - The Punic War (153 - 152 BC)
A. Carthage`s situation and Rome`s intentions after the Centennial War
In early 153 BC, Carthage was, due to the mild peace that ended the Centennial War, still a major power, but faced three threats. Since 154 BC, it was at war with the Seleucid Empire and its ally Macedonia. In late 154 BC, a group of separatists started a civil war with its focus in today`s Algeria and southern Spain. Finally Rome had absorbed former Carthaginian territories in Iberia and Sicily.
Fig. 24: Carthage in early 153 BC
Rome`s intentions during the first half of the 2nd Century were clearly recognizable. Driving Carthage out of Iberia and, if possible, gain footholds on the western Mediterranean islands. If one considers these topics as primary goal, the Punic War is easier to understand.
Rome`s reason for going to war were obviously the domestic unrests in Carthage. These were opportunities to extend the own influence at Carthage`s cost. But in this specific situation, they were also a threat. A weakened Carthage could not repel a Seleucid-Macedonian invasion. And it was clearly not in Rome`s interest to let this eastern coalition gain bases in the west.
Probably these reflections lead to the fact, that Rome went to war both with the Carthaginian Rebels as Carthage itself.
B. Progress
The first stage of the war from late 153 to early 152 BC was shaped by some fast roman moves. In an attack with three spearheads, it seized Gadira, Corsica and Malta. Flavius reports, that these cities fell after short sieges with negligible roman casualties.
During the same time, Carthage made peace with the Seleucid Empire(97) and defeated the rebellious provinces in northern Africa. Now Rome had to face Carthage all alone.
In a second wave of attacks, Rome seized Sardinia, the Balearics and whole Lusitania until the end of 152 BC. Surprisingly, the war came to a quick end, when Carthage agreed to acknowledge Rome`s claim to Gadira(98) and Cynetes(99) .
Fig. 25: Carthage in 151 BC
C. The naval dimension
The most interesting fact of this war are the evidences for a strongly increased roman naval power. Flavius mentions a fleet of about 50 Triremes, that guarded the Strait of Gibraltar. When we think about the circumstance, that the roman navy also had to transport more or less simultaneously the VI. Legion to Malta, the XIII. Legion to Corsica and the XI. Legion to the Balearics, Henworth`s estimation of the roman Navy consisting of up to 150 Triremes(100) seems reasonable.
C. Results
In the second half of 152 BC, Rome had occupied all Carthaginian territories outside of Africa and dominated the Sea. Yet it let the war end with a peace, that was quite favorable for Carthage. Some authors tried to point out, why this happened.
First of all, Carthage was still strong. All reports indicate, that its Navy was literally destroyed, but its Army was intact and could deal with any threat to the homeland. In order to force a more profitable peace upon Carthage, Rome had to invade Africa. Apparently Rome was not willing to take the risk of a long and most likely bloody war at that time.
Another probable reason was, that Rome still needed a strong Carthage as counterweight to the increasing Seleucid and Egyptian power in the east, while it changed its focus to the north again.
(97) By paying 400 attic Talents (= 14,4 tons) of Silver.
(98) Today Cadiz
(99) A tribe in today`s southern Portugal. Their capital of Conistorgis, that is supposed to be located somewhere in the backland of the Algarve, has not been found yet.
(100) Albert Henworth, "Rome`s wooden walls", 1972. His estimations are not uncontested. Other authors, who argue, that roman naval operations were conducted successively, estimate the roman Navy to have a size of around 100 ships, although this theory seems unlikely, since a successive execution probably wouldn`t have allowed the conquest of all these islands in such a short time.
A. Carthage`s situation and Rome`s intentions after the Centennial War
In early 153 BC, Carthage was, due to the mild peace that ended the Centennial War, still a major power, but faced three threats. Since 154 BC, it was at war with the Seleucid Empire and its ally Macedonia. In late 154 BC, a group of separatists started a civil war with its focus in today`s Algeria and southern Spain. Finally Rome had absorbed former Carthaginian territories in Iberia and Sicily.
Fig. 24: Carthage in early 153 BC
Rome`s intentions during the first half of the 2nd Century were clearly recognizable. Driving Carthage out of Iberia and, if possible, gain footholds on the western Mediterranean islands. If one considers these topics as primary goal, the Punic War is easier to understand.
Rome`s reason for going to war were obviously the domestic unrests in Carthage. These were opportunities to extend the own influence at Carthage`s cost. But in this specific situation, they were also a threat. A weakened Carthage could not repel a Seleucid-Macedonian invasion. And it was clearly not in Rome`s interest to let this eastern coalition gain bases in the west.
Probably these reflections lead to the fact, that Rome went to war both with the Carthaginian Rebels as Carthage itself.
B. Progress
The first stage of the war from late 153 to early 152 BC was shaped by some fast roman moves. In an attack with three spearheads, it seized Gadira, Corsica and Malta. Flavius reports, that these cities fell after short sieges with negligible roman casualties.
During the same time, Carthage made peace with the Seleucid Empire(97) and defeated the rebellious provinces in northern Africa. Now Rome had to face Carthage all alone.
In a second wave of attacks, Rome seized Sardinia, the Balearics and whole Lusitania until the end of 152 BC. Surprisingly, the war came to a quick end, when Carthage agreed to acknowledge Rome`s claim to Gadira(98) and Cynetes(99) .
Fig. 25: Carthage in 151 BC
C. The naval dimension
The most interesting fact of this war are the evidences for a strongly increased roman naval power. Flavius mentions a fleet of about 50 Triremes, that guarded the Strait of Gibraltar. When we think about the circumstance, that the roman navy also had to transport more or less simultaneously the VI. Legion to Malta, the XIII. Legion to Corsica and the XI. Legion to the Balearics, Henworth`s estimation of the roman Navy consisting of up to 150 Triremes(100) seems reasonable.
C. Results
In the second half of 152 BC, Rome had occupied all Carthaginian territories outside of Africa and dominated the Sea. Yet it let the war end with a peace, that was quite favorable for Carthage. Some authors tried to point out, why this happened.
First of all, Carthage was still strong. All reports indicate, that its Navy was literally destroyed, but its Army was intact and could deal with any threat to the homeland. In order to force a more profitable peace upon Carthage, Rome had to invade Africa. Apparently Rome was not willing to take the risk of a long and most likely bloody war at that time.
Another probable reason was, that Rome still needed a strong Carthage as counterweight to the increasing Seleucid and Egyptian power in the east, while it changed its focus to the north again.
(97) By paying 400 attic Talents (= 14,4 tons) of Silver.
(98) Today Cadiz
(99) A tribe in today`s southern Portugal. Their capital of Conistorgis, that is supposed to be located somewhere in the backland of the Algarve, has not been found yet.
(100) Albert Henworth, "Rome`s wooden walls", 1972. His estimations are not uncontested. Other authors, who argue, that roman naval operations were conducted successively, estimate the roman Navy to have a size of around 100 ships, although this theory seems unlikely, since a successive execution probably wouldn`t have allowed the conquest of all these islands in such a short time.
Last edited:
Great update! Why did you declare peace in 152 BC to claim a somewhat minor peace? Was it because after Carthage made peace with the Seleucids that you couldn't do too much more?
I also find it smart to leave Carthage somewhat strong to be a balance against the Egyptians and Seleucids. However, I wonder if that will come back to haunt you later on when your attention may be in the north...
I also find it smart to leave Carthage somewhat strong to be a balance against the Egyptians and Seleucids. However, I wonder if that will come back to haunt you later on when your attention may be in the north...
To be perfectly frank: My experience with Paradox-games is, that long wars don`t pay out. I prefer short campaigns, and that usually works out fine. In this last war I occupied all islands plus three provinces in Lusitania, that was a warscore of 21%, and Cynetes did cost 16% (I captured Gadira from the rebels). The situation was, that I ruled the sea, so he couldn`t threaten my position, but he had at least 50k in north Africa, so I`d had to start one of these wars of attrition to maybe get another province. Meh.
Ingame, Egypt is on the rise and I don`t want them to conquer north Africa before I`m finished in the north. Plus Egypt and Seleucia are allies, and that potentially spells blob-disaster in the east.
If Egypt is on the rise then maintaining a strong Carthage in North Africa is probably a wise move.
Another Gaul war is comming i presume.
Maybe you can go afther Greece next if you don't want to weaken Carthage that much.
Busy soldiers are loyal soldiers
Maybe you can go afther Greece next if you don't want to weaken Carthage that much.
Busy soldiers are loyal soldiers
Europeans should never try to conquer Africa. It cannot be done!
Stick to one continent?
Stick to one continent?
Europeans should never try to conquer Africa. It cannot be done!
Stick to one continent?
Nah. Its 146 now, so there is still a lot of time. I have plans for Asia Minor. But I don`t know, if I`ll deploy the "Unite all Greeks"- or the "Join the Alexander the Great Challenge"-CB.
But after all, I let the game decide, where to find the best opportunities.
Chapter XXIII - Britannia and the Silurian Campaign (149 - 146 BC)
A. Britannia in 149 BC
"In the second year of the Consulate of Decius Claudius Caudex, a delegation from Britannia arrived in Rome and spoke to the Senate. Their leader Gaheris explained, that he represents the tribe of the Cantii, that lives along the southeastern coast of Britannia. They were threatened by their neighbors, the Siluri. Since they had learned, that the Republic had expanded to the shores to the front of their own and knew, that Rome was an honorable and reliable Ally, they asked to become Rome`s friends."(101)
As far as we know, there were just a few tribes in Britannia, that were at the edge of a progressive civilization, but the Cantii(102) were not among them. Although there is no evidence besides the report of Cornelius Asina, it is not impossible, that the Cantii were threatened by the Siluri and searched for help, since the Siluri had left their welsh home and expanded to the southwest into the territory of the Catuvellauni.
Fig. 26: Britannia in 150 BC
However, the Senate decided, that the Cantii shall be Rome`s friends(103) and that Rome will defend them. In order to do this, it sent Aulus Fabius Licinus with a new Legion, that was designated Legio XIV Britannica, towards the British Isles, where he arrived in mid 149 BC. He immediately established several colonies such as Londinium and Durovernum Cantiacorum(104).
B. Progress
In early 148 BC, Aulus Fabius advanced into Silurian territory and quickly seized Verulamium(105). After a short break, he went ahead and marched toward Wales.
The arrival of roman troops had not passed unnoticed by the rest of the Britannic tribes. Until then, Aulus Fabius had not faced any resistance, but when he arrived in Wales, he was confronted by a force of 50.000 warriors of the Rauraci(106), while the Silurian army tried to recapture Verulamium.
Until the summer of 147 BC, Aulus Fabius was pinned down in the welsh mountains. Cornelius Asina describes three large battles and claims, that about 40.000 Celts were killed, while Fabius lost about 2.000 soldiers(107).
In the meantime, the Silurian force, that probably consisted of clearly less than 10.000 men, had recaptured Verulamium and marched toward Londinium. Despite the small size of the enemy army, the roman Governor Decimus Valerius could not hold the city, that fell shortly before Aulus Fabius returned from Wales. In the ensuing battle, the Silurians were defeated and their Chief Acco captured(108).
The war was over and the Silurian territory captured.
C. Result
The Silurian (or Britannic) campaign was one of the cases, when the inhabitants of territories, that were designated for roman conquest, united under one leader in order to repulse the invaders. Although this resulted in a short threatening situation, it also vastly decimated the local population fit for military service and thus instantaneously secured roman control over nearly whole Britannia.
(101) Cornelius Asina, "Historia res publica", Vol. III
(102) Kent in today`s United Kingdom still bears their name
(103) The term amicita described friendship between two peer individuals. But in a political sense, a "friend" of Rome became a subordinate client. This meaning was not always clear for the "friends" and lead to several revolts, when they realized, that they became Rome`s subjects.
(104) London and Canterbury
(105) The remnants of this former capital of the Catuvellauni have been found near St. Albans
(106) This is another unclear designation. The Rauraci were neighbors of the Helvetii and settled in the vicinity of today`s Basel. Cornelius Asina obviously confused these tribes. We have no knowledge about who exactly attacked Aulus Fabius in Wales, but findings suggest, that they came from northern England and maybe even North Ireland.
(107) Although such numbers are usually dubious, archaeologists and historians tend to believe these.
(108) And executed about a three months later.
A. Britannia in 149 BC
"In the second year of the Consulate of Decius Claudius Caudex, a delegation from Britannia arrived in Rome and spoke to the Senate. Their leader Gaheris explained, that he represents the tribe of the Cantii, that lives along the southeastern coast of Britannia. They were threatened by their neighbors, the Siluri. Since they had learned, that the Republic had expanded to the shores to the front of their own and knew, that Rome was an honorable and reliable Ally, they asked to become Rome`s friends."(101)
As far as we know, there were just a few tribes in Britannia, that were at the edge of a progressive civilization, but the Cantii(102) were not among them. Although there is no evidence besides the report of Cornelius Asina, it is not impossible, that the Cantii were threatened by the Siluri and searched for help, since the Siluri had left their welsh home and expanded to the southwest into the territory of the Catuvellauni.
Fig. 26: Britannia in 150 BC
However, the Senate decided, that the Cantii shall be Rome`s friends(103) and that Rome will defend them. In order to do this, it sent Aulus Fabius Licinus with a new Legion, that was designated Legio XIV Britannica, towards the British Isles, where he arrived in mid 149 BC. He immediately established several colonies such as Londinium and Durovernum Cantiacorum(104).
B. Progress
In early 148 BC, Aulus Fabius advanced into Silurian territory and quickly seized Verulamium(105). After a short break, he went ahead and marched toward Wales.
The arrival of roman troops had not passed unnoticed by the rest of the Britannic tribes. Until then, Aulus Fabius had not faced any resistance, but when he arrived in Wales, he was confronted by a force of 50.000 warriors of the Rauraci(106), while the Silurian army tried to recapture Verulamium.
Until the summer of 147 BC, Aulus Fabius was pinned down in the welsh mountains. Cornelius Asina describes three large battles and claims, that about 40.000 Celts were killed, while Fabius lost about 2.000 soldiers(107).
In the meantime, the Silurian force, that probably consisted of clearly less than 10.000 men, had recaptured Verulamium and marched toward Londinium. Despite the small size of the enemy army, the roman Governor Decimus Valerius could not hold the city, that fell shortly before Aulus Fabius returned from Wales. In the ensuing battle, the Silurians were defeated and their Chief Acco captured(108).
The war was over and the Silurian territory captured.
C. Result
The Silurian (or Britannic) campaign was one of the cases, when the inhabitants of territories, that were designated for roman conquest, united under one leader in order to repulse the invaders. Although this resulted in a short threatening situation, it also vastly decimated the local population fit for military service and thus instantaneously secured roman control over nearly whole Britannia.
(101) Cornelius Asina, "Historia res publica", Vol. III
(102) Kent in today`s United Kingdom still bears their name
(103) The term amicita described friendship between two peer individuals. But in a political sense, a "friend" of Rome became a subordinate client. This meaning was not always clear for the "friends" and lead to several revolts, when they realized, that they became Rome`s subjects.
(104) London and Canterbury
(105) The remnants of this former capital of the Catuvellauni have been found near St. Albans
(106) This is another unclear designation. The Rauraci were neighbors of the Helvetii and settled in the vicinity of today`s Basel. Cornelius Asina obviously confused these tribes. We have no knowledge about who exactly attacked Aulus Fabius in Wales, but findings suggest, that they came from northern England and maybe even North Ireland.
(107) Although such numbers are usually dubious, archaeologists and historians tend to believe these.
(108) And executed about a three months later.
Last edited:
Good to see such a skilled use of the 'they were picking on my friend .... miss' CB
hah, except for the Picts?
hah, except for the Picts?
Is that the average journey time from West Wales to Rome then?
How many troops did you fight in Britain?
The Siluri had 8k, but the problem were the Rauraci Barbarians. I`ve clicked through the provinces, and they started in west Ireland going north, crossed the sea and went south. When they arrived in Wales, they had 42k.
EDIT:
But a crappy commander vs. my Mil-9-guy. I had a +3 modifier plus another +1 modifier since he crossed a river. In the first battle he lost 16k.
Last edited:
If you`re wondering what will happen next: I don`t know. Its 136 BC now and during the last 10 years the international community has been a collective regime of peace and love(TM). Maybe I have to arrange some ruckus...
*scratches head*
*scratches head*
