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Thread: Yin, Yang and the ugly: a Divine Wind Ming AAR

  1. #161
    General gabor's Avatar
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    I bet Europeans tremble! Are you planning to create a bigger vassal out of the opm 'England'?

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  3. #163
    General knul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sad king billy View Post
    In the Forbidden City there is true Democracy: One man, One vote. Sung has the vote.
    Song didn't administer a reign of terror, just the occasional light shower.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashantai View Post
    I am impressed and inspired by your China campaign. Taking the war to the British was a bold and audacious move. Well done!
    Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by gabor View Post
    I bet Europeans tremble! Are you planning to create a bigger vassal out of the opm 'England'?
    Now that would be spoiling. My plans are my own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boris ze Spider View Post
    Why didnt you seize Shwnee's lands?
    Um, I did, I annexed Shawnee in February 1652. What land should I have taken?
    Current AAR: EU4: Single Domination: Ming, the first EU4 AAR ever to feature a non-European country!
    Finished AARs: EU3: Double Domination: Germany versus Japan. EU3: Yin, Yang and the ugly: a Divine Wind Ming AAR

    See an overview of my AARs at my Ink Well page.

  4. #164
    Archaeopteryx Michaelangelo's Avatar
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    I've just been reading through your AAR over the last few days and I am impressed. Every time someone mentions the new faction system, they always complain about it. It's cool to see that at least someone has learned to master it. This AAR has actually encouraged me to attempt a game as Ming, although I probably won't be as successful as you. Any tips you could offer a novice?

  5. #165

  6. #166
    General knul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michaelangelo View Post
    I've just been reading through your AAR over the last few days and I am impressed. Every time someone mentions the new faction system, they always complain about it. It's cool to see that at least someone has learned to master it. This AAR has actually encouraged me to attempt a game as Ming, although I probably won't be as successful as you. Any tips you could offer a novice?
    Yes, one of the reasons I started this AAR was to see if I could use the faction system effectively even if many people complained about it.

    I certainly have some tips for those who want to deal with the factions.

    1) Domestic slider control is essential. At the start of the game plan what slider setting you want to end with and how to get there. To get the most out of the factions you'll want to be able to switch often and switch at the right time. For this it's necessary for the domestic sliders to provide a balanced influence for all factions. I think the lack of domestic slider control is what puts off most people when playing with factions.

    2) Be patient. The first century can be a bit boring, as most of it is spend in Bureaucratic control. Until your slider settings are more balanced, there is little you can do.

    3) Accept the reduced amount of controll you have. Even with everything set up perfectly, the roll of the dice are still very important. As you can see in this AAR, you can easily get the wrong monarchs at the wrong time. Need desperately to start a war? Too bad, you have a MIL3 DIP 9 leader, under which you will never get the Templars into power. This can be frustrating but also fun, as it adds challenge. However, if this large randomness factor is frustrating for a player, he will likely not enjoy playing with factions.

    4) Use agents well. Basically, you get a reduced amount of agent with factions. For example, you will lose a lot of magistrates when not under Bureaucrats. Most of the magistrates I gain from colonies reaching 300 pop are wasted, as they happen during Templar or Eunuch controll. Likewise, merchants, colonists and missonaries are often wasted as you cannot always spend them. This is one of the reasons why Ming is weaker than it appears. Agent wastage can be minimized with quick faction turnover, as the last episode has shown: during that episode, no missionary or colonist was wasted and only a few merchants.

    I hope these tips will help you having fun with Ming!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boris ze Spider View Post
    Then why didnt you seize them, as like, colonies?
    Aah, now I understand what you mean, sorry about that. Well, only if the population of a province is under 1000 can you seize it. All of the Native American provinces had higher populations than that. Also, with Divine Wind all tech groups can research the first few tech levels quite quickly, so the Native Americans were able to build level 1 forts in every province by the time I attacked them.

    *EDIT* Even if I could seize the provinces, I don't know if I would do it. The infamy cost for annexing under the Colonial Conquest is 0.8 per province, so low that seizing is really not that atractive.
    Last edited by knul; 25-03-2011 at 15:03.
    Current AAR: EU4: Single Domination: Ming, the first EU4 AAR ever to feature a non-European country!
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    See an overview of my AARs at my Ink Well page.

  7. #167
    General knul's Avatar
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    Episode 20: Song turns to Europe

    I start 1660 with a classical Templar-Eunuch switch.




    In June the truce with Great Britain expires. Only Seminole, a colony spanning the southern tip of Florida, borders our colonies, so instead of colonial war I declare a War of Imperialism on Great Britain. The two battle corps stationed in England defeat the meage British forces quite quickly, obtaining a 55% warscore in April 1661. Great Britain signs a peace treaty in which they give Seminole, their Italian provinces Firenze and Romagna and 3 provinces on the British Isle. This raises my Infamy to 17.3.

    I send Confucian missionaries to all acquired European provinces. However, I find my missionary gain a bit low. So I declare war on the Papal states. They are soon joined by Naples, the HRE Bohemia and some smaller powers. Luckily, Bohemia is in a major war with Austria and Castille and is too distracted to send any troops my way.

    In May 1662 I have defeated the Papal and Naples forces with a battle and an assault corps. A month later the Golden Horde breaks our truce and attacks.

    Through a Jin Era statuette and a Gilded Pagoda event, I gain 1 stability, 4700 ducats and two faction switches.





    In December I annex the Papal States and sign a white peace with the alliance leader Naples. Infamy is now 17.1. Both Roma and Romanga have CoTs, I destroy the Romanga one. In May 1663 I manage to get a 14 ducat tribute from the Golden Horde.




    By June 1663 I have converted both Gloucestershire and Marches and sell them to England. I also encourage the Bureaucrats for a change.



    After a couple of months The Templars shove the Bureaucrats aside.




    I build 4 level 1 forts in my colonies. In Europe I reinforce my corps with extra regiments and two new battles corps, the 11th and 12th, from China.




    In 1665 Song's great statesmanship is rewarded with a gift fit for an emperor. Okay, it's a bit morbid but you have to admire the intent. I choose to give +6 influence to the Eunuchs.




    I later encourage the Bureaucrats.




    I build Trade buildings around Chiha, where our National focus resides since May 1652. The construction process continues for a couple of years.




    In 1668 Rome is converted to the One True Faith. A Confucian Rome is not something you see in every EU3 campaign.


    In June 1668 I encourage the Templars as I have an European war planned.




    With 3 battle corps and an assault corps ready for invasion, I declare a war of imperialism on Castille. Its allies Austria and Lithuiana join but can do nothing to help, as they do not have any fleets worth mentioning. I land the first troops on Castille's east coast, in Alicante. I keep bringing in corps from my Italian posessions and then I...well, I think the next picture explains the campaign quite well.



    This map shows all the major battles (those with more than 2000 enemies involved). As you can see, all but one battle were won. The defeat in La Mancha wiped out 11th corps after it failed an assault, which is a bit strange because there were still 6000 artillery involved with non-zero morale. No matter, as there are still two more battle corps and an assault corps.

    During the war the home front was still busy. I move one step towards Free Subject with a free slider move and encourage the Eunuchs, as my colonist pool is filled.




    In April 1670 I force a harsh peace upon Castille: they have to cede 5 colonies and 6 of their mainland provinces. This raises my Infamy to 23.6, just under my Infamy limit. I encourage the Templars, not to start another war, as with such Infamy that would be very unwise, but to be able to send missionaries.




    I immediately send missionaries to the Castillian provinces.




    The North American situation after the war. Notice that all west coast provinces are now colonized, preventing any competitors from gaining a foothold. In the Northeast I border Castille, France and Norway, Great Britain and Venice are the only other nations with colonies left in North America.




    The next 5 years are quite uneventful. The Golden Horde attacks again and is defeated again. In 1671 I switch to the Bureaucrats to build 9 level 1 forts. In June 1672 I switch back to the Eunuchs because of a Gilded Pagoda. In 1673 the Bureaucrats are once again encouraged and they take control.









    In 1675 I reach Government tech level 33, allowing me to choose my eight National Idea. I choose Grand Navy. Because when the Eunuchs are not in power, I go over the naval force limit, which costs me way too much money. Also, with the many overseas provinces I need more ships to keep the tariffs high. My naval maintenance costs drop from 72 ducats per month before adopting Grand Navy to 42 after getting the Idea. Even with a monthly income of around 700 ducats per months, this is a significant reducting in costs. And with a colonial maintenance of ~20 ducats per month and missionary maintenance of 4 ducats, this cost saving is very welcome.

    In further news, Andalusia has been converted to Confucianism and I decide to release Confucian Granada.



    To conclude, in the last 15 years China had 13 faction takeovers, a sign of a very dynamic society.


    Stats

    Code:
    					change during decade		change since 1399	
    			1660	1670	absolute	relative	absolute	relative
    No. of provinces	172	184	12		7%		130		241%
    Yearly income		8324	8605	281		3%		7.767		927%
    Yearly income/province	48,4	46,8	-1,6		-3%		31,2		201%
    Inflation		0,2	1,1	0,9		N/A		1,1		N/A
    Manpower (x1.000)	500	506	6		1%		421		495%
    Army Size		140	165	25		18%		126		323%
    Navy size		109	110	1		1%		61		124%
    Even with the annihilation of 11th Corps, the army has grown during the sixties. Economy has worsened even further, with low yearly income/month and a greatly increased inflation due to the high naval, colonial and missionary maintenance costs. Territorial growth is once again great.

    Next episode: the end of Song's reign
    Current AAR: EU4: Single Domination: Ming, the first EU4 AAR ever to feature a non-European country!
    Finished AARs: EU3: Double Domination: Germany versus Japan. EU3: Yin, Yang and the ugly: a Divine Wind Ming AAR

    See an overview of my AARs at my Ink Well page.

  8. #168
    Field Marshal Frederic III's Avatar
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    Confucean Britain, and now Confucean Granada? Wow, that was unespected at the beginning of the game...
    Mes AARs:
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    « [...] Nous ne sommes pas les derniers colonisés de la terre, mais les premiers affranchis du vieux monde des États-nation. »
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  9. #169
    Archaeopteryx Michaelangelo's Avatar
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    I can just picture the members of the three factions randomly running in and out of the Forbidden City in a continuous motion, since they swap so often. :P
    By the way, I started my game as Ming and I'm really enjoying it. Trying to balance the factions can be challenging, yet fun.

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  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Boris ze Spider View Post
    It feekls very weird to see Confucian Rome, will you release a puppet in Italy?
    I fear that he will release a confucian papal state, thus creating chinese pope.

  12. #172
    General knul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederic III View Post
    Confucean Britain, and now Confucean Granada? Wow, that was unespected at the beginning of the game...
    Good to hear I can surprise my audience To be honest, I didn't plan this from the start of the game: my only foreign goal at the start of the game was to own all of North America.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michaelangelo View Post
    I can just picture the members of the three factions randomly running in and out of the Forbidden City in a continuous motion, since they swap so often. :P
    By the way, I started my game as Ming and I'm really enjoying it. Trying to balance the factions can be challenging, yet fun.
    Good to hear there is yet another Ming-convert
    Yes, the politics in the Central Republic at the moment must be very confusing. In fact, I know have to look at the faction screen quite often to see which faction is in power, as I can hardly follow it myself!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boris ze Spider View Post
    It feekls very weird to see Confucian Rome, will you release a puppet in Italy?
    Well, there is certainly a pattern, isn't there?

    Quote Originally Posted by Derdiedas View Post
    I fear that he will release a confucian papal state, thus creating chinese pope.
    Oooh, nice idea, but sadly there is already another Papal States somewhere in Germany. Besides, I really want those extra missionaries the Vatican trains for me.
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  13. #173
    General knul's Avatar
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    Episode 21: the end of Song's reign

    While I wait for the truces to end, I see something wonderul. An independend Wales! Without allies! So I change controll to the templars, conquer and annex Wales in a month and give both provinces to England.



    After that amusing diversion, I turn to more serious matters: the destruction of Castille. In July 1676 I declare a war of imperialism on them. China has become so frightening to the European nations that no one answers Castille's calls to arms. This makes the war quite easy.

    In October I get a gift from a Temple and I use it to go +1 Innovative, so that it is at zero again. It also causes the Bureaucrats to take over.






    In May 1677 I've mangled Castille enough that they agree to surrender 10 provinces to us, increasing our infamy to 22. I give the Iberian provinces to Granada so my vassal will become strong.

    Another vassal is created in 1678: Tuscany is released and gets Romagna as an extra gift. This is the current European situation:



    The yellow border indicates the territory either owned by China or by one of my vassals.

    Granada started within the Muslim tech group, but as they have maximum Centralization and Innovation, they have already Westernized into the Western group! Their tech disadvantage is quickly diminishing.

    Their max innovativeness, however, means that they do not get missionaries. I'll have to convert any future provinces I want to give them. In contrast, England and Tuscany get plenty of missionaries and England has already convert some provinces.




    As an aside, Wales is now being converted to Confucianism. Wales have had a turbulent history until now! Annexed by England in 1479, regained independence in 1524, only to be annexed by Bohemia in 1579. Wales regained independence once again in 1592. The Ottomans then annexed them in 1642 and converted them to Sunni in 1653. With the Ottoman weakened Wales managed to become independend for the last time in 1675. Luckily they are now under our reign, so from now on everything will be quiet in Wales!

    In 1680 a retainer is flogged, a Bureaucrat one, so they retreat and surrender power to the Eunuchs.



    Upon that I encourage the Templars, because there shall be no peace in our time yet.



    Their services are quickly used, as in 1681 I declare war upon Modena, the only North Italian state that isn't part of the Empire (besides Tuscany of course). Venice comes to their aid and becomes alliance leader.

    A literati publishes and helps the Bureaucrats back in power.



    After 7 months I annex Modena and send a missionary there. Venice signs a white peace shortly thereafter.

    In 1683 I use my free domestic policy slider to increase Aristocracy, which makes all basic faction influence zero again.

    In 1684 drama on the Pearl River gives -5 Bureaucratic influence, so the Templars take over.



    With the European situation stable, I take another step towards a unified North America. I declare a colonial war upon Norway, who has no allies. I quickly seize Chipewan, the northernmost colony on the continent, just before its population can reach 1000. Also, I declare a war of Imperialism on Great Britain. Pisa and the Papal States join their ally. Oh, and so does France.

    France's 30 regiment strong colonial army immediately invades us, assault fort after fort. Two local small armies engage them twice, but are defeated twice. Luckily, in July 1686 I finally manage to destroy the French colonial army.

    However, the French have also landed forces near Florida in early 1686. I am quite surprised by this: normally the AI doesn't invade that much. The AI has really improved with the last patches! As these troops again assault provinces, soon Frances has a small beachhead conquered.

    I transport troops from the Northern part of the East Coast to the Floridan front. While I destroy the French invasion fleet, an excellent opportunity arises: the french fleet with 20 regiments in transport appear for the East Coast, with my Main Fleet just next to it! I attack and destroy all 26 transports, together with some of France's combat ships. But while I fight this battle, the British fleet appears out of nowhere and intercept the Main Fleet after the victory over the French.



    ...Main Fleet is completely wiped out! All my Big Ships lie on the bottom of the ocean! A tremendous loss, a great shame for China!

    Luckily, this defeat doesn't influence the war that much. The next month all of the British home guard are destroyed in the Battle of London, after which the British sign a peace in which they hand over 5 colonies, Oxfordshire and Kent. In November 1687 I sign a peace with France, giving them 25 ducats so that they don't lose face.

    With China in peace, I give converted Modena to Tuscany and unconverted Oxfordshire and Kent to England. I also start building up a fleet to replace Main Fleet.

    Then, disaster strikes. On 11 February 1688 Song dies, after a glorious reign of 45 years.


    Stats

    Code:
    					change during decade		change since 1399	
    			1670	1680	absolute	relative	absolute	relative
    No. of provinces		184	192	8	4%		138		256%
    Yearly income		8605	9021	416		5%		8.183		976%
    Yearly income/province	46,8	47,0	0,2		0%		31,5		203%
    Inflation		1,1	0,0	-1,1		N/A		0		N/A
    Manpower (x1.000)	506	507	1		0%		422		496%
    Army Size		165	176	11		7%		137		351%
    Navy size		110	130	20		18%		81		165%



    Next: Intermezzo, an overview of Song's accomplishments.
    Current AAR: EU4: Single Domination: Ming, the first EU4 AAR ever to feature a non-European country!
    Finished AARs: EU3: Double Domination: Germany versus Japan. EU3: Yin, Yang and the ugly: a Divine Wind Ming AAR

    See an overview of my AARs at my Ink Well page.

  14. #174
    Song has certainly had a fruitful reign. A shining legacy, with a few unfortunate defeats in battle, but with all wars won. I can't wait to see what's next!

  15. #175
    General gabor's Avatar
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    This naval defeat was like But it only proves that without some well-thought mechanism of potential internal strife empires will never die in EUIII. So much unlike in real life.

  16. #176
    Archaeopteryx Michaelangelo's Avatar
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    I spent several seconds looking at Castille wondering why it was green, until I remembered that you swapped the colours. It seems like China is asserting itself as the new world power. Too bad about losing your navy though.

  17. #177
    Lost in Time Ashantai's Avatar
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    Oh man...what a defeat at sea! I hope you're able to quickly rebuild your ships for the next round!
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  18. #178
    General knul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen View Post
    Song has certainly had a fruitful reign. A shining legacy, with a few unfortunate defeats in battle, but with all wars won. I can't wait to see what's next!
    Well actually, a lot of wars ended in a white peace, so they are technically not victories. This makes the history page an amusing read. "The xx war of agression ended with a return to the status quo." Umm, I got 10 provinces out of that?

    Quote Originally Posted by gabor View Post
    This naval defeat was like But it only proves that without some well-thought mechanism of potential internal strife empires will never die in EUIII. So much unlike in real life.
    I think it proves that you shouldn't underestimate the A.I rotten luck in having its fleet just nearby

    Quote Originally Posted by Michaelangelo View Post
    I spent several seconds looking at Castille wondering why it was green, until I remembered that you swapped the colours. It seems like China is asserting itself as the new world power. Too bad about losing your navy though.
    I'm starting to get the reverse version of that problem: if I see other people's screenshots, the first second I wonder why there is no Castille.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashantai View Post
    Oh man...what a defeat at sea! I hope you're able to quickly rebuild your ships for the next round!
    I have four provinces with level 6 Naval buildings working around the clock, so it won't be long until I get a new fleet. Besides, I did trash the Venician, Castillian and to a lesser extend the French fleet, so I'm not the only one with naval problems.
    Current AAR: EU4: Single Domination: Ming, the first EU4 AAR ever to feature a non-European country!
    Finished AARs: EU3: Double Domination: Germany versus Japan. EU3: Yin, Yang and the ugly: a Divine Wind Ming AAR

    See an overview of my AARs at my Ink Well page.

  19. #179

  20. #180
    Field Marshal Frederic III's Avatar
    Hearts of Iron 2: ArmageddonCrusader Kings IIDeus VultEuropa Universalis 3Divine Wind
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    Victoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of DarknessCK2: Holy Knight500k club
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    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Québec, Québec, Canada
    Posts
    3,117
    Ending a reign with a naval defeat is a little unpleasant, but Song will have a great place in the future history books. You are really growing your tentacles everywhere in Europe...
    Mes AARs:
    CK: (mort à cause d'imageshack)
    EU3 NA IN: In nomine imperia(interrompu pour un temps indéfini)
    Commerce, guerre et colonies, l'Archiduché d'Autriche (1483-1540)
    CK2 : --à venir éventuellement--

    « [...] Nous ne sommes pas les derniers colonisés de la terre, mais les premiers affranchis du vieux monde des États-nation. »
    « [...] We are not the last colonized of the Earth, but the first emancipated from the old world of nation-states.»
    -Pierre Elliott Trudeau, 20 mai 1980

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