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Thread: 1836 Improved

  1. #1
    Master of the Universe CaptRobau's Avatar
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    1836 Improved



    What is 1836 Improved?

    It changes to setup of the 1836 scenario to be more realistic. After doing research I found out the vanilla 1836 scenario had a few errors (misplaced cores, erroneous province ownership, etc.). The more I researched, the more I saw that the scenario could use an improvement. When I noticed that no other mod changed the errors I’d found, I started developing this mod.

    What does this mod do?

    I’ve designed this mod to be as much like Victoria 2 as possible. Most pops and provinces will stay the same, as to not upset the balance of the game. I’ll mainly be changing cores and province ownership. Big changes are for the bigger mods, this mod is just to make vanilla Victoria 2 more historical.

    What have you changed exactly?

    In the posts below I've outlined some of the major changes I've made, which includes screenshots. For changes between the first and second beta, see the changelog in the readme file.

    Last edited by CaptRobau; 22-01-2012 at 21:57.

  2. #2
    Master of the Universe CaptRobau's Avatar
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    Europe



    I’ve made Norway a separate country under a personal union with Sweden. Finland is independent as well but in a personal union with Russia.

    Belgium gets a core on Luxembourg. Luxembourg now as a Lvl. 1 Fort as it was one of the best fortified forts at the time (it was called the Gibraltar of the North). It also gets a core on Arlon which it loses in the Treat of London

    Jan Mayen is now terra nullius. Life rating has also been adjusted in Greenland.
    Last edited by CaptRobau; 15-05-2011 at 18:16.

  3. #3
    Master of the Universe CaptRobau's Avatar
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    Africa & the Middle East



    Sokoto loses Ngoundere as it never controlled that area. France loses a province in Senegal but gets Dakar back for it. Denmark gets Accra. Liberia is an American colony and not independent (this happened in 1847). The colony is also expanded.

    I’ve removed Tripoli as they were basically defeated by the start of 1836 and were for all intents and purposes part of the Ottoman Empire again. It would’ve been a one-province country anyway (the dey controlled the city and it’s surroundings not half of Libya).

    France gets Tlemcen so that other countries don't swoop in and steal Algeria.

    Morocco loses the Tarfaya Strip.



    South Africa looks a whole lot different now. I’ve made the Cape Colony smaller, the Zulus bigger.

    Portuguese East Africa is redrawn a bit to make it more historical.



    Assab becomes terra nullius so that the Italians can colonize it (it was sort of part of Ethiopia in reality but that would mean early war for the Ethiopians and I don’t want that). The rest of Eritrea goes to the Ottomans.

    Fashoda is terra nullius.

    Hedjaz is gone and is a part of the Ottoman Empire as it should be. I’ve made Istanbul part of Asia. This does mean that the name of the country is displayed in Iraq. But it makes more sense than it to be in Europe. Perhaps it will motivate you to reconquer Egypt. The Ottomans also control North Yemen, which means the Aden colony will finally look like the Aden colony and not like modern-day Yemen.

    Nejd is redrawn. Ha'il and Qatar are added as independent countries. Fixed some religion bugs in this region as well.

    Egypt's military techs are beefed to make it the powerhouse it really was. Egypt loses the cores on the Levant however as they conquered it only a few years before the game start.
    Last edited by CaptRobau; 15-05-2011 at 18:35.

  4. #4
    Master of the Universe CaptRobau's Avatar
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    Asia & Oceania



    I’ve redone the borders of Central Asia. The Turkestans have the provinces they had historically and they are separated from Russia by more uncolonized provinces, as IRL. China gets cores on some terra nullius provinces. They were Chinese but only in name.



    Halshenwai state is now terra nullius as there was barely any Qing presence in the area. Russia really colonized it. Decisions remove the cores.



    I've added four new countries to Indonesia to simulate the areas the Dutch hadn't colonized.



    Only parts of Australia were colonized by 1836 but the continent was considered completely British. I did make a few inland provinces terra nullius.

    New Zealand is limited to a few northern provinces, as it was barely colonized by this point. France even had her eyes on the South Island for a while. They’d have to hurry though because there not even close to being in range.
    Last edited by CaptRobau; 15-05-2011 at 18:41.

  5. #5
    Master of the Universe CaptRobau's Avatar
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    Americas



    The Alaska Panhandle is no longer Russian, the rest of coastal Alaska is though. I did this so British Columbia would be contestable between the Americans and British. The British get a heads start though because they have an auto colonization NF.

    The US has auto colonization NFs on Oregon and Idaho. These three auto NFs guide AI colonization along a historic path.

    Oklahoma and Colorado are now US colonies (territories). They were not up for grabs for Mexico, just unsettled.



    Patagonia is once again terra nullius, as even in the 1870s it was considered to belong to no-one. AI Chile and Argentina have a drive to get the liferating techs which will result in them getting the area more often than not.

    Paraguay gets the provinces it had to give away after the War of the Triple Alliance. Alto Paraguay is now a colony as it was still very much untouched by civilization in 1836. Iguatiemi is no longer a Brazilian core as it was never claimed by that country. It was just the spoils of war.



    Brazil does get Marabitanas back from Colombia (it was part of Gran Colombia on some maps but not part of Colombia).

    Taraucana (Acre) is now terra nullius with cores by Bolivia and Peru.
    Last edited by CaptRobau; 15-05-2011 at 18:49.

  6. #6
    Master of the Universe CaptRobau's Avatar
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    I've added the screenshots and the changes I've made in the posts above as well as a worldmap in the original post. Can't wait for you comments.

  7. #7
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    This looks great. I agree with the changes you've made that I have any knowledge of (admittedly a limited number). I've always hated that V2 essentially gives every country its original territory as cores and leaves it at that.

    Have you divided the Yemen state? That would allow greater historical flexibility...i.e., if the Ottomans annex the rump Yemen, there can still be a War of the Aden Concession or whatnot to take it.

    Other suggestions:
    - How about adding a Syria? Obviously anachronistic in 1836, but if Iraq has cores then what about a Syria with cores on what would become the the mandates of Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine?
    - Might be reasonable to add Lebanon, and give it cores on Mount Lebanon from 1836. It became autonomous in 1861 (ish?) under pressure from the French---maybe a decision there?
    - Add a Persian core on Herat
    - Would Greek cores on Cyprus be historical? Or is that a later-20th-century thing?

    And that Ottoman Empire text in the Hedjaz is strange...but unavoidable, I guess. You'd think Anatolia would be the obvious place for it.

  8. #8
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    Shouldn't Egypt be in control of the Hedjaz at that time? I thought the Ottomans didn't take it back until 1840
    It's true that every time you hear a bell, an angel gets its wings. But what they don't tell you is that every time you hear a mouse trap snap, and Angel gets set on fire.

  9. #9
    Master of the Universe CaptRobau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregoryTheBruce View Post
    This looks great. I agree with the changes you've made that I have any knowledge of (admittedly a limited number). I've always hated that V2 essentially gives every country its original territory as cores and leaves it at that.

    Have you divided the Yemen state? That would allow greater historical flexibility...i.e., if the Ottomans annex the rump Yemen, there can still be a War of the Aden Concession or whatnot to take it.

    Other suggestions:
    - How about adding a Syria? Obviously anachronistic in 1836, but if Iraq has cores then what about a Syria with cores on what would become the the mandates of Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine?
    - Might be reasonable to add Lebanon, and give it cores on Mount Lebanon from 1836. It became autonomous in 1861 (ish?) under pressure from the French---maybe a decision there?
    - Add a Persian core on Herat
    - Would Greek cores on Cyprus be historical? Or is that a later-20th-century thing?

    And that Ottoman Empire text in the Hedjaz is strange...but unavoidable, I guess. You'd think Anatolia would be the obvious place for it.
    North Yemen is Ottoman at the moment and the South is independent. I just read that everthing but Sana'a was under Ottoman control. I'm not going to make it a seperate country as it's just one-province. I can make it controlled by rebels or make it more prone to rebellions (not sure how to do the latter).

    For now I'm going to focus on states that existed at the time (1836) but weren't included so Syria is not high on my list.

    I've added the Persian core to Herat and the Greek ones to Cyprus. By 1836 the Greek Cypriot desire to join Greece was at least growing. I consider that good enough .

    Quote Originally Posted by Khephren View Post
    Shouldn't Egypt be in control of the Hedjaz at that time? I thought the Ottomans didn't take it back until 1840
    While the Egyptians went to Hedjaz to destroy the Saudi's they did so on order of the Ottomans. This was before Muhammad Ali went all rogue on the Ottomans. So only Egypt, the Sudan, the Levant and the Turkish city of Adana were under control of the Egyptians. PI got that right. In 1841 the Great Powers forced Egypt to give back the Levant and Adana (even though the Ottomans were basically falling apart, go Balance of Power ).
    Last edited by CaptRobau; 08-01-2011 at 19:55.

  10. #10
    Second Lieutenant Lamartine's Avatar
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    Great stuff CaptRobau!
    It always annoyed me that Australia was so heavily colonised in the GC.
    The Dutch East Indies was also such a pain, they were no where near that advanced in colonising it (to my knowledge, see map), they shouldn't have considered it "core" territory, and they shouldn't stubbornly stick to it even when I occupy all of the European Netherlands and demand their colonies as a settlement. Gah!
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  11. #11
    Master of the Universe CaptRobau's Avatar
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    Thanks to this site, I've come up with a way how to do the Dutch East Indies.



    I'll add two new countries to Sumatra. Padri (name of a faction, could call them Minangkabau after the people or Paguruyung after the kingdom the civil war took place in) and Jambi (yellow). On Borneo I've added Pontianak (the green one) and Bulangan (the purple one). The country on Sulawesi is Bone. I've given Sumbawa to Bali as the Bali rulers sometimes controlled Sumbawa. Flores and one other island is colonizable (simulating the Portuguese and Dutch having conflicting interest on those island). The rest is Dutch.

    The Netherlands still have a lot of work to do but it's likely they'll be able to conquer OTL Indonesia. Unless the AI decides to be retarded.

    I could've added a lot more countries but that would've resulted in very easy conquests (1-province uncivs).
    Last edited by CaptRobau; 10-01-2011 at 15:25.

  12. #12
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    And bout the Liberia Event you should make it so it doesn't happen until The USA owns all of present day Liberia.

  13. #13
    Master of the Universe CaptRobau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xHawkeyefan64x View Post
    And bout the Liberia Event you should make it so it doesn't happen until The USA owns all of present day Liberia.
    I'll look into that. The main reason for 'independence' was because the ACS that controlled the colony was going bankrupt. I wouldn't know how to simulate that so something like what could be a trigger.

  14. #14
    Scio me nihil scire. MrTaxman's Avatar
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    This is a beautifully crafted correction to VICII. I would very much like to include this in my own mod (Shattered Union, now being seriously updated). For now I'm going to have to hand include some of the corrections I've seen you do. You have done an excellent job in your research.

    If I may point out one tiny little problem with leaving Ft. MacLeod as British in 1936. Lieutenant-Colonel James Farquharson Macleod (for whom the fort was named) was born about September 25, 1836.
    Admittedly, the British did claim the area as part of Rupert's Land (maybe, maps were notoriously TERRIBLE then), but I think that the British shouldn't have control over Ft MacLeod at that point. Let them fight to get to the Oregon Territory like the US.
    Last edited by MrTaxman; 11-01-2011 at 03:09.
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    Master of the Universe CaptRobau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTaxman View Post
    This is a beautifully crafted correction to VICII. I would very much like to include this in my own mod (Shattered Union, now being seriously updated). For now I'm going to have to hand include some of the corrections I've seen you do. You have done an excellent job in your research.

    If I may point out one tiny little problem with leaving Ft. MacLeod as British in 1936. Lieutenant-Colonel James Farquharson Macleod (for whom the fort was named) was born about September 25, 1836.
    Admittedly, the British did claim the area as part of Rupert's Land (maybe, maps were notoriously TERRIBLE then), but I think that the British shouldn't have control over Ft MacLeod at that point. Let them fight to get to the Oregon Territory like the US.
    I dont want to do that as Im trying to set the scenario up so that the AI outcome will be most likely historical, but still allow a human USA to get all of British Columbia without events (if Fifty-Four Forty is in V2 as it was in V1, never checked). That's why I made all of British Columbia uncolonized. Human colonization is extremely exploitative anyway since it allows super-fast colonization. Making Ft. Macleod not British means a human USA can much more easily get all of the uncolonized areas, even though the Hudson Trading Company had been sending trappers, etc. to British Columbia for decades. The way it's set up now is to simulate the influence each country had on what eventually become their land.

    I wish V2 had a better colonization system. Something with claims that made the colonization process harder for those that didn't claim an area. But that's not something for this thread.

    If you want I can already share some of the things I've changed. Events and new Indonesian countries aren't done yet but most of the rest is. Since the latter is probably not that important, I'd might as well share with you what you need. Just PM me and I'll send something your way. No point in redoing the work.
    Last edited by CaptRobau; 11-01-2011 at 11:30.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptRobau View Post
    New Zealand is limited to Dunedin, as it was barely colonized by this point. France even had her eyes on the Northern Island for a while. They’d have to hurry though because there not even close to being in range.[/FONT]
    It would probably be more accurate to give Auckland and Tauranga provinces to the British and have the rest (including Dunedin province) uncolonised.
    Although there were small scale european settlements at this stage in Dunedin province (such as Bluff), they were bases for sealers and whalers of various european nationalities rather than being part of a British colonising effort. The town of Dunedin itself was not settled by europeans until 1848.
    By 1836 the French only had possible intentions to colonise the South Island, not the North Island (although when a Frenchman attempted to do so the French government was not forthcoming with assistance). The Declaration of Independence, signed between British Resident Busby and the chiefs of northern iwi (corresponding roughly to the Victoria 2 provinces of Auckland and Tauranga) in 1835 placed the British Monarch as "parent of their infant state, and protector from all attempts on its independence". In terms of international geopolitics the United TRibes of New Zealand were akin to a British protectorate, which in Victoria 2 terms is a colonised province.
    The British signed the
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  17. #17
    Master of the Universe CaptRobau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalelovil View Post
    It would probably be more accurate to give Auckland and Tauranga provinces to the British and have the rest (including Dunedin province) uncolonised.
    Although there were small scale european settlements at this stage in Dunedin province (such as Bluff), they were bases for sealers and whalers of various european nationalities rather than being part of a British colonising effort. The town of Dunedin itself was not settled by europeans until 1848.
    By 1836 the French only had possible intentions to colonise the South Island, not the North Island (although when a Frenchman attempted to do so the French government was not forthcoming with assistance). The Declaration of Independence, signed between British Resident Busby and the chiefs of northern iwi (corresponding roughly to the Victoria 2 provinces of Auckland and Tauranga) in 1835 placed the British Monarch as "parent of their infant state, and protector from all attempts on its independence". In terms of international geopolitics the United TRibes of New Zealand were akin to a British protectorate, which in Victoria 2 terms is a colonised province.
    The British signed the
    I see where I went wrong. I read that Dunedin was the oldest city. Should've looked for oldest settlement, etc. So I did some more research and it appears that the Dunedin province does contain one of the earliest settlements, Bluff. Auckland in the north contains the oldest. I read the Declaration of Independence thing on Wikipedia and it appeared to me that most of the chiefs fitted in the Auckland province, so I'll just add that in addition to Dunedin and I think we have a good approximation of the situation back then.

    Thanks for the info. Makes me realize that my research isn't perfect (yet ).

  18. #18
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    As I explained, Bluff was merely a base for sealers and whalers (amongst whom were British, Portugese, Americans etc.) rather than an effort at colonisation of New Zealand. I would also suggest adding Tauranga as a number of the chiefs who signed (or signed not long after) were from areas within that province.
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  19. #19
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    Eriteria should be Ottoman

  20. #20
    Master of the Universe CaptRobau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalelovil View Post
    As I explained, Bluff was merely a base for sealers and whalers (amongst whom were British, Portugese, Americans etc.) rather than an effort at colonisation of New Zealand. I would also suggest adding Tauranga as a number of the chiefs who signed (or signed not long after) were from areas within that province.
    Need to learn how to read . Auckland and Tauranga are more accurate then. Dunedin/Bluff is gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by garudamon11 View Post
    Eriteria should be Ottoman
    You're right, didn't know that. Akordat, Asmara and Massawa are now Ottoman, Assab is still an empty province as I explained above. This also allows Italy to get all of it's colonies/overseas possessions in a war with the Ottoman Empire (IRL it had to do with Egypt, who controlled it at that time, getting military access through Ethiopia, much more complex and requiring an event which I like to keep as low as possible).
    Last edited by CaptRobau; 11-01-2011 at 17:23.

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