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Thread: Allopass issues

  1. #1
    Corporal Klingzog's Avatar

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    Allopass issues

    I decided I'd give buying premium another go, since Daniel explained that last time he put the link up in error.

    So I click through, put my username/password in and all is good. Then I reach the payment screen:

    Minor issues:

    1) What date is this: 07/04/2011? I have no idea. Is it American layout, so 4th of July 2011? Or is it British layout, so 7th of April 2011? The date should be in words, not numbers for something that is taking my money. Especially when you are dealing with customers world-wide.

    2) "The name of the site will not appear on any of your bank statements." I, like many people, keep hold of my bank statements so that I know where all of my money has gone. If Dreamlords is not actually listed on the statement, I have no idea where that money has gone and - as I have done in the past - I would likely complain to my bank. This could turn into no end of trouble for Paradox if a lot of users do this.

    3) When I click through to buy (where I put my details in), there is a broken link. Where it says "To choose another subscription option, click here", "click here" does not work and I stay on the payment page.

    4) The cost is displayed in Euros. I have no idea what this cost will be in my own currency. I can go to a currency exchange website and check, but how do I know this is the exchange rate that Allopass are using? The Bureau de Change take a cut when I buy currencies meaning I get a worse deal than directly converting my money, will Allopass be doing this?

    The main issue causing me not to buy Premium time:

    "For your convenience, this subscription will be renewed automatically when it expires."

    This is absolutely not convenient for me. I will renew my subscription when I wish to, not when Allopass tells me I want to. If this was a game like WoW, where you have to pay to play the game, this would not bother me. But since the game is free-to-play with the option to pay, it is absolutely not acceptable to think that I wish to continue to buy your product.

    Overall, you have seriously let us down again, Paradox. It is becoming abundantly clear that you have not thought about your customers at all and instead of trying to make as much money out of Dreamlords as quickly as you can, whilst at the same time alienating many of them.

    EDIT:

    Another major issue:

    Reading the Terms of Service, it turns out Allopass is not even handling my money:

    "As the site is not the property of the ALLOPASS corporation, the VISITOR recognizes expressly that the ALLOPASS corporation may in no case be pursued for issues of any kind concerning, in a direct or indirect manner, the content (images, videos, sounds, etc.) and the functionality of the site, present and future."

    Meaning if my money goes missing, I cannot hold them responsible. Reading further, they do not even state who does own the site and so I am completely unable to hold anyone to account should something go wrong with the payment
    Last edited by Klingzog; 07-01-2011 at 20:56. Reason: Another issue found
    I'm known as Iblis in-game and on the old forums. That name was STOLEN here on Paradox, so Klingzog will do

  2. #2
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    Damn, it's a good thing they black listed me so I cant use them for 5 weeks cause after reading some of the stuff you described here I'm 100% glad my payment didn't go thru for Ducats. Not listing a company that will handle the money is a bad move by them and another reason Click n Buy should be used vs Allopass. I've been to Allopasses website for being in the business for 14 years they sure do suck at it. Thankyou for bringing this to the forums. I for one will NOT be purchasing anything from Dreamlords now until they go back to Click n Buy.

  3. #3
    I think you're misunderstanding the meaning of the passage, "As the site is not the property of the ALLOPASS corporation, the VISITOR recognizes expressly that the ALLOPASS corporation may in no case be pursued for issues of any kind concerning, in a direct or indirect manner, the content (images, videos, sounds, etc.) and the functionality of the site, present and future." I believe this should be read, "Allopass is not responsible for the content or availability of the Dreamlords website."

    Personally, I'm glad they're offering automatic renewal, because I don't want my premium subscription to lapse at any time. Sure, it would be convenient if they also offered a non-renewing purchase, but all you need to do is complete the purchase and then immediately cancel the renewal via the Allopass site.

    --David (Jolebin)

  4. #4
    First Lieutenant Keeks's Avatar

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    The payment issues for Allopass still continues it seems...

    anyway:
    as Jolebin said, if you dont want reocurring payment, just click the link provided by mail, and you're done

    about the bank statements, it states:
    This debit will be identified as HPMP on your bank statement
    and will be credited to the following company: HPMP, 15-17 rue Vivienne 75002 Paris

    and the ToS - Allopass does handle the money, but they are not responsible for the web itself. To understand it right, they just provide piece of code, and they just stated they are not responsible for anything else on the page you're on. So if there was some offensive web (ie racist) then Allopass by saying that just stated it has nothing to do with them.


    Still dont like the Allopass, but well, we will have to stick with those till Paradox gets some better solution up. Just dont forget this is still beta...

  5. #5
    Corporal Klingzog's Avatar

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    @ drixen:

    I think Tom (one of the Paradox moderators) stated somewhere that they can have you un-blacklisted if you fill out a support ticket.

    @ David:

    If it should read that, they would have put that instead. You can't simply say "well we meant this, so that's what you should hold us to". By the same reasoning, they could say "well we meant to say there's a charge of 50 Euros for using us, so we'll charge you for it".

    @Keeks:

    It is not made clear that the recurring payment can be stopped. I was talking to a few people online last night who said they were struggling to find the cancellation option, meaning to at least some people, this is still unclear. I can't personally comment on the clarity of the cancellation button after purchase because I've still to buy Premium Time, but from what I've seen already it is not sufficiently clear.

    If I saw that on my bank statement I would have no idea who that charge went to. I'd very likely bring that up with my bank as it's a foreign company based in France. Paradox are based in Sweden and so I would understand if Paradox's address was listed (and since it would likely say "Paradox Interactive" I would know who the payment was to). Preferably it would state: "Paradox Interactive, Address, Dreamlords.com" so there is no problem identifying who the payment was made to.

    The ToS state that functionality is not the concern of Allopass. In this case, the functionality provided is passing my bank details on to Allopass. Should something happen to my details - they are incorrectly sent, they are sent numerous times, etc - then I would not be able to blame Allopass, even if it resulted in me being charged more than once (or incorrectly) for my Premium Time.

    Dreamlords may still be in beta, but they are dealing with an outside company who are not in beta - if they are, then I would understand the problems we're having but strongly urge Paradox to use a company who are out of beta.
    I'm known as Iblis in-game and on the old forums. That name was STOLEN here on Paradox, so Klingzog will do

  6. #6
    First Lieutenant Keeks's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klingzog View Post
    @Keeks:

    It is not made clear that the recurring payment can be stopped. I was talking to a few people online last night who said they were struggling to find the cancellation option, meaning to at least some people, this is still unclear. I can't personally comment on the clarity of the cancellation button after purchase because I've still to buy Premium Time, but from what I've seen already it is not sufficiently clear.

    If I saw that on my bank statement I would have no idea who that charge went to. I'd very likely bring that up with my bank as it's a foreign company based in France. Paradox are based in Sweden and so I would understand if Paradox's address was listed (and since it would likely say "Paradox Interactive" I would know who the payment was to). Preferably it would state: "Paradox Interactive, Address, Dreamlords.com" so there is no problem identifying who the payment was made to.

    The ToS state that functionality is not the concern of Allopass. In this case, the functionality provided is passing my bank details on to Allopass. Should something happen to my details - they are incorrectly sent, they are sent numerous times, etc - then I would not be able to blame Allopass, even if it resulted in me being charged more than once (or incorrectly) for my Premium Time.

    Dreamlords may still be in beta, but they are dealing with an outside company who are not in beta - if they are, then I would understand the problems we're having but strongly urge Paradox to use a company who are out of beta.
    The mail states following:

    For your convenience, this subscription will be automatically renewed on its expiration date (Wednesday 06 July 2011 18:30) for the price of 35.00 EUR for 180 additional days.
    If you would like to suspend the automatic renewal of this subscription, please visit the following address:
    https://payment.allopass.com/subscri...e.apu?code=xxx (yep, edited the code for my own safety

    Nothing that hard to understand about it.


    When transftering the money through some other company, you'll never get the target info, but only the middle company. Because you paid to them. And once again, this information is written in the mail, so pretty clear for me. If you're too lazy to read, your bad.

    And the ToS - once again, they just gave Paradox the code that is tested. If Paradox did some edits in there, then its not really Allopass who you should blame for that. Thats the entire meaning of the ToS note. They do NOT own the page, so you cannot make them responsible if something goes wrong. Imagine this situation:

    -Allopass gives the code for payments to some company
    -that company makes few edits in there to charge more than it should
    -user suit the Allopass for charging more than noted

    This is why there is that note in ToS, to defend themselves.


    And once again, I agree that Allopass wasnt the best decision, but still, do not like that wrong info is passed here

  7. #7
    Corporal Klingzog's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keeks View Post
    The mail states following:

    For your convenience, this subscription will be automatically renewed on its expiration date (Wednesday 06 July 2011 18:30) for the price of 35.00 EUR for 180 additional days.
    If you would like to suspend the automatic renewal of this subscription, please visit the following address:
    https://payment.allopass.com/subscri...e.apu?code=xxx (yep, edited the code for my own safety

    Nothing that hard to understand about it.
    Like I said, can't comment for myself because I haven't bought Premium yet. Only going off what I've heard others say. If it's really that easy, then I'll agree with you that those I've talked to are in the wrong.

    However it doesn't change the fact they should tell you when you go to buy Premium that you are able to cancel the subscription and explain how that will work. All I can see when I go to buy is that I will be charged repeatedly, no explanation about how to cancel my order.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeks View Post
    When transftering the money through some other company, you'll never get the target info, but only the middle company. Because you paid to them. And once again, this information is written in the mail, so pretty clear for me. If you're too lazy to read, your bad.
    True, you get the middle company. But the middle company is still responsible because they are handling the transaction. If they refuse to accept responsibility if something goes wrong, Paradox can turn around and say it's not their problem either because the site isn't theirs, meaning nobody will take the blame for any errors.

    Also, I'm sure you're aware, but you don't get the mail until after you buy. The whole issue here is there is no information before buying. So please, don't keep referring to the email when it's clear that I and others who have issue with the pre-purchase information do not have access to this email.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeks View Post
    And the ToS - once again, they just gave Paradox the code that is tested. If Paradox did some edits in there, then its not really Allopass who you should blame for that. Thats the entire meaning of the ToS note. They do NOT own the page, so you cannot make them responsible if something goes wrong. Imagine this situation:

    -Allopass gives the code for payments to some company
    -that company makes few edits in there to charge more than it should
    -user suit the Allopass for charging more than noted

    This is why there is that note in ToS, to defend themselves.
    Wrong. Allopass did not give Paradox the code, they keep everything themselves and Paradox purchase access to the site. Paradox cannot edit the site, only tell Allopass what is needed - where the money will go, what to notify when a purchase is made, etc.

    You are also wrong that Allopass do not own the site, they do. If you'll notice, the site's domain is allopass.com. If Allopass do not own that site, then I'm slightly worried.

    Since they own the site and are handling my money, it seems extremely odd that they refuse to take any responsibility if something goes wrong with the site's functionality. It also seems extremely odd that it is not listed anywhere who does accept responsibility if something goes wrong with the transaction.
    I'm known as Iblis in-game and on the old forums. That name was STOLEN here on Paradox, so Klingzog will do

  8. #8
    First Lieutenant Keeks's Avatar

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    @Iblis:

    Lets start from the middle - Why would you need information about how will be the money charged on the bill BEFORE the payment? Getting them after the payment is soon enough.
    Also, if there is a subsription, there has to be an option to unsubscribe. And again, why would you need information how to unsubscribe BEFORE subscribing?


    and:
    this is where you get ducats: https://connect.paradoxplaza.com/userpage/credit
    and premium subscription was about the same, cant get there as I already have it. So my previous comments stays valid

  9. #9
    Dreamlords Moderator Necrullz's Avatar
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    Keeks, I would also like to know how money is charged to my bill, ESPECIALLY now since Allopass ic clearly a very shady and suspicious looking company. They may be all right, but they certainly do not like it, and telling us they are alright at this point on is useless. Besides, when you are auditing yourself, you will need this information, surely?

    Also, I like to know how to unsubscribe to things, it cannot hurt to show you how to cancel even before you get it, at least to know that the option is there and hasslefree.

    @Ibbeh, I'll get around to actually writing what I was supposed to write here..eventually ;p
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  10. #10
    I must agree with Necrullz on his points.

    I hate any transaction where I have to opt out of something that I have not requested.
    For your convenience, this subscription will be renewed automatically when it expires

    We should be given the option at the payment stage to automatically renew.
    Please tick this box for this subscription to be renewed automatically when it expires
    Last edited by Leiard; 09-01-2011 at 17:50.
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  11. #11
    Second Lieutenant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keeks View Post
    @Iblis:

    Lets start from the middle - Why would you need information about how will be the money charged on the bill BEFORE the payment? Getting them after the payment is soon enough.
    Also, if there is a subsription, there has to be an option to unsubscribe. And again, why would you need information how to unsubscribe BEFORE subscribing?


    and:
    this is where you get ducats: https://connect.paradoxplaza.com/userpage/credit
    and premium subscription was about the same, cant get there as I already have it. So my previous comments stays valid

    *plays a your wrong sound*

    website = paradox

    iframe = allopass

    source=
    <iframe src="https://payment.allopass.com/acte/audiotel/purchase.apu?ids=234257&amp;idd=945393&amp;country =CA&amp;data=" name="iframe" width="580" marginwidth="10" height="420" marginheight="10" scrolling="auto">
    </iframe>


    I also wounder what resources of the payment page are not secure as per the google chrome message that puts a red X though https

  12. #12
    Dreamlords Moderator Necrullz's Avatar
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    Actual website you buy the premium time on: https://payment.allopass.com/subscri...e.apu?data=xxx It re-directs you to this from paradox connect Mark, and it states that on the one where you purchase it they do not take responsibility for, let me make that bold, where you are BUYING the premium is on payment.allopass.com which is an Allopass website, not paradox website.

    The iframe is also allopass, so they should be responsible for BOTH.
    *wiggles* AWWWWWWWW yeeeahhh I'm dowwnnn with the shiznits man, just ask mr popo what I'm on, *squeeks*

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  13. #13
    Corporal Klingzog's Avatar

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    Necrullz has already said this, but I'll echo it.

    Many of us audit our spending - if you are one of those lucky people who has no need to do so, then good for you, but you should accept that the rest of us do need to watch what we spend. If I'm going through my records and see a payment that I have no clue about, I'm going to be very suspicious (before you say "just remember who HPMP is", that's not viable as some of us do make many purchases and can't be expected to remember every company name).

    As for needing to know how to cancel my subscription, I want to know before I buy in case there are any hidden charges or other specifics that must be followed. Not making this clear to the buyer is very suspicious - so much so, that I'm sure it contravenes some European legislation on subscription purchasing.
    I'm known as Iblis in-game and on the old forums. That name was STOLEN here on Paradox, so Klingzog will do

  14. #14
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    funny, i googled up HPMP..
    High Precision Motor Products Ltd. - hm.. nope..
    Health Professions Mentor Program - hm.. also nope...
    Hospital Payment Monitoring Program - hm.. maybe? or maybe not?..
    HPMP Complaints - fraudulent withdrawal on credit card - oh dear...

    they should just use paypal..

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Keeks View Post
    If you would like to suspend the automatic renewal of this subscription, please visit the following address:
    https://payment.allopass.com/subscri...e.apu?code=xxx (yep, edited the code for my own safety
    Just want to point that subscriptions are also listed here:
    http://connect.paradoxplaza.com/user...tsubscriptions

    From here, you can also cancel your subscriptions. Please note that cancelled subscriptions will remain in the list until they expire (time is out).

  16. #16
    Good news everybody! We now have (almost) global support for PayPal. There is a new payment option "paypal-direct" which allows you to purchase 500/1000/2000 Ducats.

    Go to https://connect.paradoxplaza.com/userpage and click "Purchase" to try it. Let me know what you think!

    Note: US customers will see both "paypal" (through Allopass) and "paypal-direct". Both should work equally well.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by tomsoderlund View Post
    Good news everybody! We now have (almost) global support for PayPal. There is a new payment option "paypal-direct" which allows you to purchase 500/1000/2000 Ducats.

    Go to https://connect.paradoxplaza.com/userpage and click "Purchase" to try it. Let me know what you think!

    Note: US customers will see both "paypal" (through Allopass) and "paypal-direct". Both should work equally well.
    And for premium we have..?

  18. #18
    First Lieutenant Keeks's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMFS View Post
    And for premium we have..?
    ...to wait a little longer?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by AMFS View Post
    And for premium we have..?
    Working on it as we speak! No time estimate yet... but soon! :-)

  20. #20
    are the servers supposed to be down right now?

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