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Thread: Teutonic Dreams - A Germany 1936 HPP AAR

  1. #161
    Mr. Fixit Slan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baltasar View Post
    Do you guys have any plans to make HPP compatible with 2.04 anytime soon?
    Yes, hopefully tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enewald View Post
    Why give up your colonies?
    Why keep them?...
    Sir NeoCore Slan, OLIR, beta of FtM, appointed judge of Alexspeed's Victoria 2 AAR Contest, Fan of the Week (22-11-2011) and I also play HoItCG.
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  2. #162
    Field Marshal Baltasar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slan View Post
    Yes, hopefully tomorrow.
    Tomorrow as in.. tomorrow? O_o Damn, that's quick

  3. #163
    Black Hound of Han Enewald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slan View Post
    Why keep them?...
    More land and resources? Worldmap better with more grey?

  4. #164
    Mr. Fixit Slan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enewald View Post
    More land and resources? Worldmap better with more grey?
    You get surprisingly few resources from overseas non-core territory with dissent. More land equals more revolts to suppress. Worldmap in grey is not the objective of the game
    Sir NeoCore Slan, OLIR, beta of FtM, appointed judge of Alexspeed's Victoria 2 AAR Contest, Fan of the Week (22-11-2011) and I also play HoItCG.
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  5. #165
    Black Hound of Han Enewald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slan View Post
    You get surprisingly few resources from overseas non-core territory with dissent. More land equals more revolts to suppress. Worldmap in grey is not the objective of the game
    Lies! There will be oil! Just wait! And drill deeper!

  6. #166
    Field Marshal Cybvep's Avatar

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    I released Indonesia as a puppet in my AAR With non-existent Allied threat they are safe there.

  7. #167
    Field Marshal TheBromgrev's Avatar
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    @CptEasy: Thanks. I may post one either today or tomorrow, depending on how much time I have.

    @Baltasar: Slan and I had discussed the "other option" for Turkey earlier, but I'll implement it for this AAR. Expect it to be part of the next HPP version.

    @Enewald: In all honesty, those colonies are worthless. I would only have gotten about 15 metal and 3 rares from them, which is not worth the convoys I'd have to maintain, nor the partisans I'd have to deal with. That's why I gave everything to Italy, which can police those areas, is hurting for resources, and can convoy everything out with fewer convoys than I would need, since it already has colonies there. Giving the colonies to South Africa will become part of the UK's surrender instead of a separate decision. Having Australia and Canada take over the rest represents that those nations would not allow Germany to have naval bases so close to them, and Germany couldn't have possibly gotten there in time to stop them. Realistically, all of those colonies and bases probably would've gained their independence, but since we haven't (and won't) make new nations for those areas, this was the 2nd best option to implement.

    @Cybvep: I actually released Indonesia then edited the save to make them independent and out of the Axis. From a realistic perspective, in this type of situation, there's no way Germany could get there before Dutch rule collapsed and the nation declared independence. Then, if Germany did send troops there, it would result in a long guerrilla war that Germany couldn't afford, not with the Soviets next door. I feel it's much more believable that the nation becomes independent, and Germany doesn't contest the issue, just like the UK's colonies.
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  8. #168
    General SSmith's Avatar
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    I think that is a mighty fine chain of decisions/events!

    Yes, I agree that it makes sense to release Indonesia. The other thought I had was that Guyana should perhaps be released? If I remember correctly, I saw that country released in my HPP 1.04 game, so presumably it could exist and that might make more sense than Canada grabbing land in South America?

    Possibly Belgium, Netherlands and Denmark could be puppeted like the UK, but I think there was an argument against the 'friendly' AI units that would then be wandering around and interfering with Germany's supplies?

  9. #169
    Field Marshal TheBromgrev's Avatar
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    Guyana was given to Venezuela by the UK before the war started, so it stays with Venezuela. We don't have a nation for Suriname, so Canada got it. Making Indonesia be independent was an after-thought, and will be changed to be a real event.

    I forgot to make reaction events for China and Argentina, to allow each nation to decide whether or not they wanted to sign the "devil's contract" and join the Axis in return for land. That will be implemented in the next HPP release.

    As far as the puppets go, there's nothing stopping you from releasing them yourself, like I did with Ireland and the UK.

    From what I've read, Germany wanted to make the BeNeLux, Norway, Denmark, parts of Switzerland, Poland, Bohemia/Moravia, Lower Styria, Sweden, the Channel Islands, the Finnish Aland Islands, the Crimean Peninsula, Northeastern and Eastern France, and a few French ports become part of Germany itself, with 6 colonies set up in the former Soviet Union to be incorporated later. Everything else would be a puppet state. Finland would get Karelia, the Khola Peninsula, northern Sweden, and the Norwegian port of Kirkenes as payment for its Alliance and the transfer of Aland (I've written this event, just need Finland to join the Axis instead of be a normal ally, and take out Norway and Sweden). Turkey, from what I've read, was offered Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia if it helped attack the Soviets, which we all know didn't happen. Japan was to get Siberia east of the Yenisei River in the form of a Siberian puppet nation, with the current BP land gains being annexed directly into Japan, plus a lot of other stuff in the Pacific, South Asia, Alaska, and Western Canada.
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  10. #170
    Sergeant wam-mnebu's Avatar
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    Hello, im new to the paradox world (bought EU3 over christmas), but I love your aar, even speaking as a guy who shrugs off ww2 history.

    btw, i might just be an idiot, but i always thought the concept of "stupid AI" rather funny, if only because it assumes humans are flawless strategists in all foreign affairs. Maybe if the ai is modded to act "emotionally" that might work (ex. if the heartland is attacked, protecting the british isles will be priority one, so they would make peace with italy.

    anyways awesome aar

  11. #171
    Major Palm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBromgrev View Post
    just need Finland to join the Axis instead of be a normal ally, and take out Norway and Sweden).
    Very unrealistic because of the deep friendship between the peoples, such a war would have been unthinkable for them all. Also all those countries you've lined up probably wouldn't be a part of Germany, but rather made economically dependent of Germany.
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  12. #172
    Field Marshal TheBromgrev's Avatar
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    @wam-mnebu: Welcome aboard. I won't claim to be a perfect strategist (I left southern England undefended), but the UK AI ignoring its homeland and landing in Amsterdam was not a smart move, regardless of how you think about it. The Allied AI must be programmed to try and retake mainland Europe over anything else.

    @Palm: Welcome. You should keep in mind the context of what's currently going on, as opposed limiting yourself to what really happened, as this is clearly an ahistorical game within the bounds of reason. In this game, Finland has a NS party in power, and we all know what types of people they were. Yes, historically Finland rejected Germany's offer for exactly the reason you describe, which is why the event to transfer that land would only happen if 1) Germany controls the land and 2) Finland is an Axis member (implying the government wasn't democratic; if it was, then Finland would leave the faction via one of Slan's events). If Finland was still democratic, then it would have a chance to ally with Germany once Barbarossa starts, but that would be it.

    From everything that I've read on the matter, which isn't limited to Wikipedia by the way, Hitler wanted to incorporate all of those areas into Germany, and when he could, did. This was in contrast to the Balkans, in which puppet governments were installed with little to no German troop presence, and France, which was under military control for strategic reasons. I don't really want to start an in-depth discussion here about it though; the HPP forum would be a better place to discuss this.
    Last edited by TheBromgrev; 05-02-2011 at 03:16.
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  13. #173
    Major Palm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBromgrev View Post
    @Palm: Welcome. You need to keep in mind the context of what's currently going on, as opposed limiting yourself to what really happened, as this is clearly an ahistorical game within the bounds of reason. In this game, Finland has a NS party in power, and we all know what types of people they were. Yes, historically Finland rejected Germany's offer for exactly the reason you describe, which is why the event to transfer that land would only happen if 1) Germany controls the land and 2) Finland is an Axis member (implying the government wasn't democratic; if it was, then Finland would leave the faction via one of Slan's events). If Finland was still democratic, then it would have a chance to ally with Germany once Barbarossa starts, but that would be it.

    From everything that I've read on the matter, which isn't limited to Wikipedia by the way, Hitler wanted to incorporate all of those areas into Germany, and when he could, did. This was in contrast to the Balkans, in which puppet governments were installed with little to no German troop presence, and France, which was under military control for strategic reasons. I don't really want to start an in-depth discussion here about it though; the HPP forum would be a better place to discuss this.
    Right I missed there was a NS-party in power in Finland ITTL, well I suppose it is not unthinkable then. Great AAR btw!
    Last edited by Palm; 03-02-2011 at 19:52.
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  14. #174
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    Chapter 30: The United Nations, Yugoslavia, and Switzerland - June 20 to August 22, 1941

    The events between the War in the West and the beginning of Unternehmen Barbarossa, the invasion of the Soviet Union, can be described in two major sections. The first section, the events unfolding between June 20 and August 22, 1941 will be discussed in this chapter.

    On June 23, 1941, the United States of America formed what it called the United Nations, a new alliance meant to replace the defeated Allied powers. While no other nations joined the alliance immediately, every nation in the world that wasn't a member of the Axis or Comintern began to prepare their citizens for the global war they felt was imminent. This universal attitude was due to the complete defeat of the Allies, a general fear of the Axis, and the fact that the United States, the very symbol of isolationism, had finally broken out of its shell and became involved in international politics. The Axis as a whole took a moment to reflect on what had happened. Argentina's leader, Augustin Justo, was particularly nervous, and repeatedly wanted Germany to confirm its commitment to the alliance.


    The USA creates the United Nations (Author's note: despite what the text says, no one's at war, except for the Chinese and Japan)

    (Author's note: this is mixed news; every non-aligned nation just lost 20 neutrality. That means the US will possibly declare war on me, but it also makes nations like Portugal and Finland much easier to bring into the Axis, since invite acceptance is tied to neutrality. For now, the UN only contains the USA, but there are lot of nations floating in that corner of the triangle and its only a matter of time until they all join.)

    The second major international development occurred on June 25, when the Spanish Republic publicly mobilized its military. This was an expected development, as the Reich blatantly supported the defeated nationalist uprising and now occupies the valuable city of Gibraltar. It was natural for the Spanish to feel threatened, although the Reich had no plans at the time to deal with Spain in any way. However, the loss of Gibraltar was not to be risked, and two garrison divisions were deployed to the city, in order to ensure that it would not fall before reinforcements could arrive.

    The third major development was Yugoslavia's signing of the Anti-Comintern Pact on June 26. The Yugoslavian government had hoped to seek German protection from Bulgaria and Hungary, both of whom had lost land to Yugoslavia as part of the Treaty of Neuilly and Treaty of Trianon, respectively. However, the population of Yugoslavia was furious, as many people wanted to remain neutral and not sign the Pact. Quickly, a coup took place in Beograd and killed the royal family. The new government immediately nullified the Pact.

    The Reich had two options: it could allow the murder of the previous government and snub to Germany's authority to go unpunished, respecting the will of Yugoslavia's people, or it could punish the offenders. Hitler decided on the second option. However, he had no plans on keeping the nation intact. Hungary and Bulgaria would receive their claims, and the nation would be split.


    Germany invades Yugoslavia immediately after the coup takes place

    Two days after the coup and subsequent invasion, Finland's National Socialist government approached German ambassador Wipert von Blcher about signing the Anti-Comintern Pact, on the condition that Finnmark in Norway, the Torne River Valley in Sweden, the Khola peninsula, and all of Karelia be given to Finland in addition to areas lost during the Winter War. In return, Finland would join any potential attack against the three nations. Von Blcher relayed the request to von Ribbentrop, who then forwarded it to Hitler. Hitler agreed to the terms and Finland joined the Axis Powers.


    Finland joins the Axis (Author's note: the Finns didn't fire the decision I made that would allow them to make the offer described above. They joined via a regular invite due to the neutrality loss event. Finland will, however, have a decision that demands the land in the terms above, so if they don't take the land they I will have a choice to transfer it.)

    The war against Yugoslavia was slow, mainly due to the mountainous terrain in Slovenia and Croatia. While Heeresgruppe C was making its way to Beograd, on August 5, von Ribbentrop received word that the Republic of China, despite its initial defeats, had defeated the rebellious nation of Mengjiang, had retaken East Hebei, and was pushing into the puppet state of Manchukuo. The speed of which China recovered had greatly impressed the Reich, and Hitler felt he had made the correct decision, despite von Ribbentrop's objections.


    The ROC pushes into Manchukuo

    On August 13, Heeresgruppe C had finally taken Beograd, while Bulgaria had taken Scopia. Upon Yugoslavia's surrender, since the royal family no longer existed, the country was partitioned. Bulgaria and Hungary both received their former land, the Reich annexed Lower Styria, and the "autonomous" nations of Croatia and Serbia were created. Mussolini, threatening to leave the alliance, demanded southern Slovenia and the Dalmatian coast. Unwilling to lose Italy as an (although incompetent) ally, Hitler agreed to the request and Italy received what it had asked for. In practice, Croatia and Serbia were no more independent than Ireland or the United Kingdom; their foreign policy was dictated by the Reich.


    Yugoslavia is partitioned

    The following day, Admiral Raeder celebrated the Reich's latest victory by launching the Europa-class carriers KMS Europa and KMS Germania. These two ships would form part of the core of fleets 4 and 5, and were expected to be finished in just under 3 years.


    The two Europa-class carriers were launched on August 14, 1941

    On August 18, 1941, with Heeresgruppe A in position along the Swiss border, the Reich delivered its final ultimatum to Switzerland: "deport French war criminals". Most scholars agree that the Reich's claims at the time were bogus and manufactured, and some recently discovered memos describe that von Ribbentrop's foreign ministry could think of no other excuse to justify the invasion of neutral Switzerland. It was known that Hitler personally despised the Swiss, as "Germans who had been led astray". However with the United Nations being a real potential enemy, care had to be taken else the US guarantee the borders of Germany's neighbors.

    Naturally, the Swiss, believing that their extensive mountain fortifications would win the war, rejected the ultimatum. Two days later, Heeresgruppe A had won the battles of Bern and Zrich. On August 22, 1941, Switzerland was partitioned between Italy and the Reich. Italy, which again hadn't participated, demanded the Italian-speaking province of Ticino, as well as the Southern Alps. Since Italy didn't participate in the invasion, it was only given Ticino.


    Bern is quickly taken by Heeresgruppe A with minimal losses


    Switzerland is partitioned along ethnic-lines, with Italy receiving Ticino and the Reich annexing the rest of the country.
    Last edited by TheBromgrev; 05-02-2011 at 15:27. Reason: Fixed some typos; thanks Slan for pointing out that I wrote the wrong year :p
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  15. #175
    Black Hound of Han Enewald's Avatar
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    Why give any parts of Krnten to Italy?
    Incompetent fools ought to be absorbed into the Reich.

  16. #176
    Field Marshal Cybvep's Avatar

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    SU is pretty much screwed. I can't see how could they win with the whole Europe stacked against them and with China kicking on their back-door.

  17. #177
    Field Marshal Baltasar's Avatar
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    Very impressing, looking forward to Barbarossa. Those carriers do not seem terribly advanced, do you think you'll be able to fight off the USA when they come for you? With such a large coast to cover, I imagine you'll really need all those carrier fleets just to be able to get everywhere fast enough.

  18. #178
    Field Marshal misterbean's Avatar
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    finally caught up...and the war is practically over. kind of nice to read it all in one go.
    HPP LibrAARian. PM me about any change in the status of your HPP AARs. http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...-Update-Thread
    Germany Tutorial, Take Two: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...2#post13243122 or find it in the Major Threads sticky.
    Tutorial AAR in pdf form available on Gamefront, courtesy of Davy: http://www.gamefront.com/files/22231...ged+colors.rar
    Honoured by USKnight for the above tutorial here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...1#post14404907
    AARlander reporter

  19. #179
    General SSmith's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEuropa Universalis: ChroniclesFor the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHOI3: Their Finest Hour
    Semper FiVictoria 2Victoria II: A House Divided

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    2,114
    Interesting developments with the USA forming the United Nations. The Soviet Union is certainly isolated, but China still has its hands full with Japan I think...

  20. #180
    Field Marshal TheBromgrev's Avatar
    A Game of DwarvesCrusader Kings IIDeus VultEU3 CompleteDivine Wind
    For the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneMagicka
    Semper FiSword of the Stars IIVictoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of Darkness
    V2 Beta500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

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    @Enewald: You're right. Although, I am genuinely surprised Italy wasn't kicked out of Albania, despite having only an HQ and militia brigade there. The militia managed to hold on until a horde of units arrived going through Yugoslavia, despite Italy not having transit rights Italy even managed to take Crete on its own. Now, if Italy would decide to use its transport and invade south of Athens, Italy might actually win.

    @Cybvep: Well, the SU will have 1 more year to prepare than normal, and my MP is only at 313. While I did switch laws, the event that gives me the MP boost hasn't fired yet. From experience, I will typically lose about 600 to 700 MP during the first 2 months of Barbarossa, due to the extremely intense fighting the AI does. However, after the AI overruns (not encircles) the Soviet front line, my losses should slow considerably. After the Soviets surrender or the BP truce fires I'll easily get that MP back.

    @Baltasar: Really, it's not the carriers that matter but the CAGs. Carriers in this HPP version have a really low hull value, about half of what it should be, so they're extra easy to sink. When it comes to Japan, my 5 planned mixed fleet will be enough, but I'll really need to start pumping out carriers in order to take on the US, and I just don't have the IC for it yet. After Barbarossa I'll be able to start construction of the carrier fleets.

    @misterbean: Welcome! I hope you enjoyed it so far.

    @SSmith: The United Nations will likely be the "end boss", as the US is indeed very scary. It's navy is bigger than the rest of the world's combined (at this point), it has about triple my IC, and doesn't need to import resources. While the Soviets are indeed isolated and I can focus on a single front now, it is no less formidable. The reworked doctrine system allows them to squeeze a lot more divisions in a single province than I can. China received a surprised gift from Japan though, which I'll go over in the next chapter.
    The Historical Plausibility Project - 1.0.4 (final) for HoI3, 2.04 (final) for SF, 3.0.0 (final) for FtM, 3.3.2 (beta) for TFH
    Alt-History: Code Geass Timeline - v1.8 for Victoria 2: A House Divided (final), v2.2 for Heart of Darkness, based on the Pop Demand mod

    My AARs:
    Banner of the White Sun - an HPP 1.0 (final HOI3) Nationalist China AAR - DONE
    Teutonic Dreams - an HPP 1.7.3 (mid-SF) Germany AAR - Done
    Jiěfng Zhnzhēng - A Chinese HPP 2.04 (final SF) AAR - Done
    Kantai Kessen - Empire of Japan HPP 2.6.71a (mid-FTM) AAR - Last update April 16, 2013 - Abandoned

    My information thread about ww2 naval expansion for the world's naval powers, large and small. Last update August 22, 2013; reworked the Soviet entry.

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