Learning from Prussia - a Rise of Prussia AAR against a real player - for beginners

[loki100]

Sorry to be so late to the thread but I just found this AAR a few days ago and have read it to completion. I read it because I had already decided to finally start a pbem game now that the game is patched to an acceptable level and now seems solid. I bought the game over a year ago but the early bugs really deterred me from even stating a game so I just waited. I wanted to get some insight and hints on gameplay from this AAR and boy what a treasure trove. It was very enjoyable and enlightening to read the gameplay between two masters. The Swedish trap and the use of Bateux to attempt to escape it were both brilliant. The one thing that troubles me is the way that the Russian efforts against Koenigsburg played out. It just doesn't sit well with me and doesn't seem very plausible. It also essentially nullified Russia for the entire game and was simply a large source of NM for Prussia. I hope that scenario is something that is a very rare event. Aside from that the gameplay was very enjoyable to follow. I now feel that I am somewhat competent to play my first pbem game.

Narwhal can probably answer better but I'm currently playing him in an another PBEM. The AI effectively abandons Koenigratz, now the garrison will take time to destroy and inflict losses on the Russians but I'd say by about 1759 they should be in Prussia proper. Narwhal likes to put a large army there and stop the Russians dead (so to speak). In our current game (late 58) he has a mobile force of about 25,000 and the garrison of about 10.000. Due to the terrain, even if I committed the entire Russian army I'd lose (frontage negating my numerical gain).

So its his gambit, he's tied up a corps, and hopes to tie up the Russian army, so then no threat to Kolberg etc. Now it so happens, I think there is a solution to his plan that effectively just takes his corps out the game, but till we get well into 1759 I ain't going to put it in writing anywhere ...

[Narwhal]

Sorry to be so late to the thread but I just found this AAR a few days ago and have read it to completion. I read it because I had already decided to finally start a pbem game now that the game is patched to an acceptable level and now seems solid. I bought the game over a year ago but the early bugs really deterred me from even stating a game so I just waited. I wanted to get some insight and hints on gameplay from this AAR and boy what a treasure trove. It was very enjoyable and enlightening to read the gameplay between two masters. The Swedish trap and the use of Bateux to attempt to escape it were both brilliant. The one thing that troubles me is the way that the Russian efforts against Koenigsburg played out. It just doesn't sit well with me and doesn't seem very plausible. It also essentially nullified Russia for the entire game and was simply a large source of NM for Prussia. I hope that scenario is something that is a very rare event. Aside from that the gameplay was very enjoyable to follow. I now feel that I am somewhat competent to play my first pbem game.

Thank you. You are not late. Even someone reading this in 2 years won't be late

As for Koenigsberg, it worked against Baris because he did not know that a determined defense would win even with a 1 : 10 ratio. Also, the AI never does. This strategy stop any Russian attack 100% of the times (or almost).
But in my new game against Loki100, I made the mistake to use the same strategy (actually, the same strategy with technical improvements), but the difference was that Loki100 knew that an head-on attack was useless and found a - very smart - and I should add unspectacular so far, to get around the issue and make my strategy a losing one. My conclusion now is that against a player that read the "Learning from Prussia" AAR or know the rules of terrain and frontage, the best move is to pull back to Kolberg as the Prussians.

...so far...

[Cybvep]

Wow... Just wow. This AAR was GLORIOUS. I cannot believe that I've missed it for so long. Brilliant strategic manoeuvres, unexpected developments, decisive battles and tense action. My only gripe is that since I'm not used to the map the game uses, in many cases I was quite lost when various actions were described. Lack of a HOI-style "political map mode" was a bit annoying and the fact that I was on my laptop with small screen didn't help, either .

[Lon'Dozai]

I bought the game and found your AAR a few days afterwards. Not only did you explain things well and get me more motivated to play my new purchase, you also created a very entertaining story. Good job Narwhal, and Baris who even though I was rooting against still put up a good fight.

[Annibal]

I made that AAR because I thought the game was not as popular as it deserved, and hoped to attrack the attention of new players to it. I don't know if I succeeded, but then I noticed that the AAR was also a good complement to a very insufficient manual, so I am quite happy some people "learnt" a few tricks, or more, reading the AAR. That's why, like all AARer, I LOVE comments

What a great AAR which made me to start to play it and enjoy it and of course you gave us some very useful hints which I cannot find it in the manuel.
I liked Barış's cautious approaches and your determination to find a solution no matter what the situation was.
Thanks for this great AAR and I go back to my singleplayer game with brillant new ideas.

Btw, i got a question. In the beginning of the game (Pirna situation), an Austrian army tried to relieve Pirna but they've been defeated and moved towards Torgau. The city garrison was too small and I assume they surrenderd immedieately. I don't know if it is required to be in assault mode to take a city without combat (to seize it). Anyway, I guess they first took Torgau then a battle occured which was very bad for Austrians (they lost 20,000 while i lost 6,000). This was the most decisive battle for me thus far and I'm wondering what made them to get in a battle? Maybe they took the city first and they were in assault mode and they directly attacked me as i am stepping in the province? Or they took the city and waited outside then my army arrived and got in a clash?

[Alfred Packer]

Great AAR, I feel like I understand the game much better now and I really enjoyed this roller-coaster ride from beginning to end!

[loki100]

What a great AAR which made me to start to play it and enjoy it and of course you gave us some very useful hints which I cannot find it in the manuel.
Btw, i got a question. In the beginning of the game (Pirna situation), an Austrian army tried to relieve Pirna but they've been defeated and moved towards Torgau. The city garrison was too small and I assume they surrenderd immedieately. I don't know if it is required to be in assault mode to take a city without combat (to seize it). Anyway, I guess they first took Torgau then a battle occured which was very bad for Austrians (they lost 20,000 while i lost 6,000). This was the most decisive battle for me thus far and I'm wondering what made them to get in a battle? Maybe they took the city first and they were in assault mode and they directly attacked me as i am stepping in the province? Or they took the city and waited outside then my army arrived and got in a clash?

bit of general comment on this. There is a small chance that a besieged city will surrender in any turn. If the defenders have full supply wagons this will reduce but not eliminate this risk. It sounds as if the Austrians at Torgau got lucky in this regard.

For the second bit would need to see more but I'd guess they could have had units in different stances which can lead to losses falling on a single corps. However, although 6,000-20,000 sounds very much in your favour its not unusual to manage a few early big wins against the Austrians. Not least the AI won't (I believe) promote von Bilberstein early, with his 4-1-4 stats, he can turn a corps into something that will make any Prussian attack pay a full price. Without him, you will tend to win big.

[Anazagar]

Actually IIRC as long as the besieged force has supplies in a supply wagon it won't surrender.

[loki100]

Actually IIRC as long as the besieged force has supplies in a supply wagon it won't surrender.

it will ... or at least in WiA it will, its just happened to me in a recent PBEM when I thought a given fort was completely secure due to the supply wagon

[Searry]

Actually IIRC as long as the besieged force has supplies in a supply wagon it won't surrender.

The rule has been changed in the most recent patch. Now if you have 3 breaches there will always be a chance of surrender.

[Annibal]

bit of general comment on this. There is a small chance that a besieged city will surrender in any turn. If the defenders have full supply wagons this will reduce but not eliminate this risk. It sounds as if the Austrians at Torgau got lucky in this regard.

For the second bit would need to see more but I'd guess they could have had units in different stances which can lead to losses falling on a single corps. However, although 6,000-20,000 sounds very much in your favour its not unusual to manage a few early big wins against the Austrians. Not least the AI won't (I believe) promote von Bilberstein early, with his 4-1-4 stats, he can turn a corps into something that will make any Prussian attack pay a full price. Without him, you will tend to win big.

Thx. This is the screenshot, as you noticed I have offensive and the enemy has defensive stance. I presume this happened like this: First they besieged defenseless Torgau and the city surrendered immediately. They didn't have "get in a structure" command so they stayed outside the fort. My army arrived and battle occured. They achieved something good by taking Torgau in the beginning of the game but not that army had 70,000 soldiers before crossing Elbe and now they have been completely annhilated. So, the game became much more easy for me.

[loki100]

Attachment 59132

Thx. This is the screenshot, as you noticed I have offensive and the enemy has defensive stance. I presume this happened like this: First they besieged defenseless Torgau and the city surrendered immediately. They didn't have "get in a structure" command so they stayed outside the fort. My army arrived and battle occured. They achieved something good by taking Torgau in the beginning of the game but not that army had 70,000 soldiers before crossing Elbe and now they have been completely annhilated. So, the game became much more easy for me.

would have to see the turn reports but it looks as if they were in an evade stance which is odd (I think the siege victory was an 'accident' in this sense). With more guns and in a proper defensive stance that should have been a bloodbath with your losses not far short of theirs. So my guess is the different parts of that Austrian force were in separate stances and possibly whichever corps had their artillery took no or little part. My guess would be half the army was with Browne in a HQ stack and took no part and the other half you pretty much wiped out. Looking at the prisoners etc I'd guess you then did a mass of damage as they retreated the field. And then being in the middle of Saxony would have seen what was left disintegrate (bad enough if you lose at Prag but at least you will get some formations back to Wien).

Can see how that was decisive, that must have been all the force that started at Prag, and its hard for the Austrians to recover early losses (the cash limit counts against them)

[baris30]

What a great AAR which made me to start to play it and enjoy it and of course you gave us some very useful hints which I cannot find it in the manuel.
I liked Barış's cautious approaches and your determination to find a solution no matter what the situation was.
Thanks for this great AAR and I go back to my singleplayer game with brillant new ideas.

Thanks. It was really a learning game also for me. And a bit innocent game to be called. But it was great experience.

[juss]

Absolutely awesome. Gonna buy the game and your AAR gets all the credit for motivating me