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Thread: Trait Cost

  1. #1

    Trait Cost

    Yikes! I know we're trying to slow things down but I did the math and it will take 3 eras of complete research in Welfare to be able house the max number of workers. I'm not saying it should be instant, but I think trait trees like Extended Reach and a few others in other buildings are WAY overpriced, especially considering they don't even have a Superior Trait to upgrade to.

    I know we are trying to slow the way people progress down, but this has it at a pretty big halt. Population is key to even being able to complete research, and players can't have it for at least 6 months. There are many other trees like this as well including DL stat trees.

    My solution on this is to have all the trees that go 5, 10, 15...50 down to 3, 6, 9...12. It will still take 2 eras of complete research to complete them and that's if you solely go for it (obviously). I do like the idea that some things do cost more than others as they are worth more, but this was a bit extreme.

    I'd also like to throw out another suggestion based off that last statement and this may just be wishful thinking but here goes. DL stat traits were nerfed by 50% then had their cost tripled. I feel like it would be better to just give them (and similarly effective traits) a cost of 2, 4, 6...20. It would still take quite a while to complete a single tree (1.5 eras if you focus only on that tree, counting the DL tome in it still).

    Those are just thoughts to keep everyone progressing at a reasonable rate, because 50 trait points for a single trait is insane, especially when it's for only .5% more ranged damage. Remember, to get the full effectiveness of these traits you do need the superior one which adds a lot more to the cost, keeping a good balance.

    Questions/Comments/Insults?
    Last edited by AMFS; 26-12-2010 at 06:12. Reason: typo city

  2. #2
    Dreamlords Moderator The Spectre's Avatar

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    I agree with you completely regarding the housing traits and similar traits like it. Especially shattering victories.

    I understand slowing old players down and making it fair for new players but what I would suggest is having it work on a curve, have around 2/3 or 3/4 of the cost now but stagger it so it costs less for the first few levels (allowing newbies to get them quickly and be rewarded) and then have the last few levels with a higher cost. It would mean people who wanted to specialise would still have tow ork for it but a basic/med level could be gained by the casual player.

    I think the current system may also scare away the newer player, with so little reward for months of play in the way of traits they might not think it's very worth it to play the game/invest money (which of course is what we want more than anything).

    While I agree that nerfing the DL traits AND increasing the costs was a bad idea; I think the cost is still decent enough. It makes DL tomes harder to achieve and it doesn't super-power your DL BUT as stated before you should be gaining more than a 0.5% bonus when you're investing 5/10/15 etc. into a trait, that's weeks of research for a very negligible bonus.

    This definitely warrants more discussion.
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  3. #3
    First Lieutenant Keeks's Avatar

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    Agree with extended reach, its almost 3 full eras to finish it. Rescaling it a little so player can have full population after 2 eras could be fine. For the rest I'd say keep it as it is, as for exampla shattering victories is quite strong trait. On the other hand, it will definitely take a while for new player to discover which tree is really important, and which is secondary..imo only extended reach is really important...

  4. #4
    Sergeant

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    extended reach could need a change, everything else is fine - because with all of the other lines you do not have to focus on them at all and if you do - well, it costs.

  5. #5
    Private Cyram's Avatar

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    I'm all for keeping all of them as they are, at least it'll feel more like an achievement then. 6 month is nothing

  6. #6
    Second Lieutenant
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    I disagree with this, it would give older players too big of an advantage if it was easier to get traits.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by marksteele View Post
    I disagree with this, it would give older players too big of an advantage if it was easier to get traits.
    How so when we are all starting at 0?

  8. #8
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    conciser the larger picture.....new players coming in later on

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by marksteele View Post
    conciser the larger picture.....new players coming in later on
    As with any MMO, new players will not be as strong as established players. This is just a fact of gaming that people need to face.

  10. #10
    Recruit

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    Yes, although for RTS usually it is only game knowledge/experience that makes established players stronger.

    Regarding trait cost increase, it seems to be rather a good thing to me. Increasing the length of game and increasing competition between players since traits gap will be smaller.

  11. #11
    Dreamlords Moderator

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    Also, as one of the Devs stated, the point is NOT to be able to easily obtain the entire trait tree. It is to obtain specific aspects of it. Yes, you can get increased DL damage/health/speed/etc, but then you would not be able to ALSO afford the expanded stockpile space... The ONLY thing i could think needing a change would be the Extended Reach traits.
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  12. #12
    Dreamlords Moderator The Spectre's Avatar

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    That's why i suggested a scaling system.

    Have the first tier of everything as it used to be but then scale it up massively so it's hard to specialise in that tree. It means new players can try different tactics and old players won't gain a massive advantage because specialising and gaining a large bonus will still cost you massively.
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  13. #13
    Just make traits not effective in PvP then if you're all so afraid of the advantage they provide. They've been nerfed to do half the bonus they did before and increased cost to take longer to get. If it's a minimal bonus after years of playing, whats the point of having them?

  14. #14
    Corporal Klingzog's Avatar

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    How about modifying the cost of a trait by how many traits in that tree you already own? That way new players can advance quickly, the older players still have an advantage, but because of gradual increasing costs it won't be too great.

    So for example, if the base cost of a trait is 5 and I already have 10 traits in that tree, the cost of that trait would be 5 + (10 * modifier)

    Superior traits would work in the same way.

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