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  1. #1
    Field Marshal chatnoir17's Avatar
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    Japan Mod

    Main Concepts of this Mod
    - to represent historical maps of Japan between 1399 - 1820
    - to create more playable ways with the shogunate system of DW

    - Japan Mod is also integrated in MCP (full version ), Death and Taxes (history files) and OSC (full version)

    News (10.13.2011)
    -Japan Mod ver.0.5 is released.

    Latest Versions
    Japan Mod version 0.5 for DW official 5.1beta
    http://www.gamefront.com/files/20883...od+ver.0.5.rar

    Japan Mod Lite (05.01.2011)
    Attachment 35214
    Changes about the basic system of DW:Vanilla are only:
    -more historical daimyos
    -diplomacy actions
    -shogun influence changes only by events ( i.e. I set the changes of shogun influence in static modifier to 0 )

    Any Suggestions are wellcome

    Have fun!
    Last edited by chatnoir17; 13-10-2011 at 09:33.

  2. #2
    Field Marshal chatnoir17's Avatar
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    Features of Japan Mod
    - representation of daimyos between 1399 - 1590
    - over 40 new daimyos are playable
    - three different Processes for the reunification of Japan (dominance of Ashikaga shogunate, creation of a new shogunate and unification as Kampaku)
    - reasonable up-and-down movement of the shogun influence
    - some changes about diplomatic actions by shogun and daimyos
    - provincial factions (ikko-shu, pirates, buddhist warrior monks and refugee arstocrats)
    - additional asian countries and provinces (Korea, Manchu, China and Vietnam are done)
    - trade and piracy with the asian continent

    Some screenshots of this mod:

    Japan and other countries in 1399


    Kanto Region in 1399



    Japan under the rule of Hideyoshi (1590)


    Ming has more provinces



    Logs
    Code:
    log for ver.0.5
    - added provinces in Vietnam 
    - refined Vietnamese country files
    - added Japanese history until 1590
    - added three daimyos (Toyotomi, Akechi and Shibata)
    - fixed some bugs
     
    log for ver.0.4c
    - fixed for the official beta 5.1
    - fixed provincial detas (Trade goods and some historical buildings) in China.
    - China has now more cultural regions.
    - added Chinese history until 1650
     
    log for ver.0.4b
    - fixed for theBeta March.30.2011
    - added province decisions to ask local lords some helps to daimyo 
    - changed chinese provinces
    - added some chinese countries
    - fixed some bugs and typos
     
    log for ver.0.4a
    -fixed the mod for the latest beta patch
    -added 9 new korean, manchurian and chinese countries
    Special thanks for assalala und highsis for the informations about korean history!
    -added new provinces in Korea and Manchuria
    -fixed history files until 1582
    -changed country file of Japan. Japanese emperors have now personal names without family name. If anyone feels using personal names disrespectful, please use an alternative file in the additional folder.
    -changed developping technology speed for asian, steppnomads and indian countries (asian:0.65, nomads 0.6 and indian 0.7)
    -changed some conditions of chinese factions
    -tried to stop blobbing nomad neighbours as following ways 
    -changed colonist bonus for nomad neighbour (0.33/province -> 0.02) and NI colonial venture (1 -> 1.5)
    -catholic countries have less yearly colonists, but more bonus to increase colonial population
    -celestial empire has -1 yearly colonist, but Ming has a decision "move the capital to Beijing" to remove this penalty
    -nomad neighbour have a decision to increase yearly colonists (+0.5)
    -added an event of mongolian resistance against foreign occupation
     
    Log for ver.0.4
    - Daimyo can increase his position in the shogunate and gains some merits.
    - Conquiring non-core province in the eary period isn't a wise strategy.
    - Daimyo can make shogun his puppet.
    - Some daimyos in the Sengoku period may appear, if the Ashikaga shogunate falls.
    - domestic policy slider changes technology costs.
    - fixed many bugs and typos (Thanks a lot Jamie550 and his validator!)
     
    Log for ver.0.3b
    - Hanami events fire in 60 months (from 36 months)
    - added buddhist warrior monks as provincial faction
    - added some daimyo. Now they are total 44
    - added flavor events about daimyo's succession and their relation
    - fixed history files until 1534
    - changed shogunate reform decisions
    - fixed some bugs and typos
     
    Log for ver.0.3a
    - fixed history files until 1493 (adding Hojo and Ichijo)
    - added provincial factions (Suigun-Shu, Ikko-Shu and Aristocrats) with modifiers, events and decisions.
    - fixed some bugs and typos.
    - each province is devided when the game starts. You need to unify your domain before Japan is united.
    - Before the trading in the asian continent player must support a local naval faction.
    - The rash expansion might give you more demerits than merits.
    To do List for ver. 1.0
    - add more daimyos (1582 - 1820)
    - fix history files
    - add some historical flavor events
    - rethink the shogun system and Emperor-Shogun-Kanpaku relation
    - some provinces like Mutsu or Dewa are too large. I will devide them and create more provinces.
    - change base colours of creats (flags)
    - history files, events and decisions for eastasian countries (low priority)
    Last edited by chatnoir17; 13-10-2011 at 18:47.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by chatnoir17 View Post
    One of the big Problems which I found in the mod is
    - Shoguns Influence decreases rapidly, because daimyos send insult and the relations between them become very bad.
    There might be more inconvenient things...
    This is something that I have seen in the more daimyos mod and it's possible for an human player (as taira) to become shogun and to keep the title and to pass all the reforms without too much problems (playing in low aggressiveness but very high difficulty). I don't know if the AI is able to do this thus but the civil war era should be designed to last a long time anyway. no ?
    EDIT : well, there are a lot more countries in your mod than in the more daimyos mod, but still, if I start as the shogun and in a few years test, I managed without any difficulty (and without any war) to stay at 100% shogun influence with something like +15pts of shogun influence per months. But the AI is unable to manage this.

    But if it's really a problem, you can change this in the defines.txt :
    Code:
    	0.06	#_DDEF_WEAKEN_SHOGUNATE_COST_
    	1		#_DDEF_WEAKEN_SHOGUNATE_BASE_
    	0.5		#_DDEF_WEAKEN_SHOGUNATE_PROVINCE_
    	150		#_DDEF_SHOGUN_GOOD_RELATION_ #could try to lower this at 100
    	0		#_DDEF_SHOGUN_BAD_RELATION_ #could try to lower this at -100.
    	30		#_DDEF_NEW_SHOGUN_MIN_
    	80		#_DDEF_NEW_SHOGUN_MAX_
    nb : awa is a core province of rebels instead of hosokawa
    Last edited by Captain Frakas; 21-12-2010 at 17:38.
    One does not put a king on trial. One kills him.
    One cannot reign innocently: the insanity of doing so is evident. Every king is a rebel and a usurper.
    Saint Just.

  4. #4
    Field Marshal chatnoir17's Avatar
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    Thanks Captain Frakas!

    As you say, the old Shognate must be decline and with this the civil war should continue in long-term.
    So it is not so serious problem for human players as lokal daimyo.
    On the other hand, I want to see more dynamic movement of shogun influence instead of the one-side-decreasing.
    In addition, diplomatic possibilities of daimyos depend on it, but it works not so good in my mod.
    In a few years feudal lords gain free hands and shogun lose his title... That is not fantastic.

    Maybe I should change some parameters or add new shogun modifers.

    Thank you for your suggestion!
    I will fix hosokawa core on awa province in the next version.
    Last edited by chatnoir17; 21-12-2010 at 18:06.

  5. #5
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    About the shogun system (emperor/kampaku/shogun), some suggestions :

    1. create a country modifier "ruler descend from Minamoto no Yoritomo" that give little prestige bonus.
    2. having this country modifier is required to become shogun as it was an hereditary office.
    3. clans that historically descend from Minamoto have this modifier from the start.
    4. a shogunate decision could grant this modifier to others daimyos (this false claim would require a legitimacy of 100%, an high prestige, a grand marshall. It will upset all other daimyos that already have this modifier).
    5. daimyos that do not descend from Minamoto could become kampaku but they will never be endorsed to become shoguns as long as they don't have the modifiers. They could also unite Japan by the sword without becoming shoguns thus.
    6. perhaps there could be a resurgence of the southern imperial court (?).
    7. perhaps also, that the emperor could again try to restore his power like some decade before with the Kenmu restoration.
    8. Asiatic governments shouldn't have access to royal marriages as it lead to purely European mechanism. I have already made a very simple modded government.txt file for my own game, I could share it with you.

    I don't really know anything about the History of Japan, so I hope someone will correct me if I'm mistaken in one point.


    EDIT :
    About the point 7.

    The emperor could have a shogunate decision if the current shogun have low prestige, very low influence and and a very high infamy while the emperor have high prestige and high legitimacy. He could make a call for the restoration of his power and daimyos would be asked to eventually chose a side. If one imperial loyalist become kampaku, he could give the title of shogun to the emperor himself, thus the emperor would rule effectively the Japan until the unification of the empire or until that emperor lose the support of daimyos.
    With this sword of Damocles, player will perhaps try to not grab too much infamy.
    Last edited by Captain Frakas; 22-12-2010 at 00:34.
    One does not put a king on trial. One kills him.
    One cannot reign innocently: the insanity of doing so is evident. Every king is a rebel and a usurper.
    Saint Just.

  6. #6
    Field Marshal chatnoir17's Avatar
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    Thanks Captain Frakas.

    My opinion to your suggestions:
    Though some Minamoto-daimyos, for exemple Ashikaga, belong not to Yoritomos line,
    "Minamoto-origin for the shogun title" is a good idea, because we need alternative stories for the unifying of Japan.
    The Daimyo with Kampaku title (historically Toyotomi) could take an another way to the unification than shogun.

    Systems around the emperor must be changed somewhat, because the emperor is the most boring role in the game.
    Historically the emperor could become neither kampaku nor shogun, because these titles were granted to his subjects.
    (Of course his princes were appointed somtimes to the posts.)
    I dont know how and what can we modify, but in the present system of DW
    the emperor could help some daimyos to unify the land with giving legitimations or casi belli.
    If a daimyo unifies Japan, the emperor could ask him to return the power to him.

    Finaly:could you tell me the way to change gaverment.text?
    Last edited by chatnoir17; 22-12-2010 at 03:44.

  7. #7
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    In the common\shogunate.txt you can determine what diplomatic actions are possible. Perhaps that you could add some diplomatic options to the emperor (I don't know if it's possible, we'll have to try). The only limitation is that the emperor should NOT have the opportunity to declare war, guarantee, warn, use sphere or allies with anybody because he should never be annexed (or the shogunate will immediately end and all daimyos will become independents rulers).

    for the governments, you have to create special monarchy governments for non European countries with the line "royal_marriage = no".
    Note that "allowed conversion" also have to refers to non European governments too!

    I have done it here :
    Code:
    # Do not change tags in here without changing every other reference to them.
    # If adding new forms of governemnts, make sure they are uniquely named.
    
    # Uses all 'modifiers' possible thats exported as a Modifier.
    
    steppe_horde = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	tribal = yes
    	nomad = yes
    	colonize_prov = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.30
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    	}
    
    	minimum_policy = {
    		innovative_narrowminded = 1
    	}
    	minimum_policy = {
    		centralization_decentralization = 2
    	}
    
    	royal_marriage = no #feature for european monarchies
    
    	#bonus
    	badboy_limit = 10
    	badboy = -1
    	land_forcelimit_modifier = 1.0
    	
    	#malus
    	technology_cost = 0.5
    	global_revolt_risk = 1
    }
    
    celestial_empire = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	valid_for_new_country = no
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.20
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		rotw_administrative_monarchy = 0.5
    		rotw_absolute_monarchy = 0.5
    		rotw_enlightened_despotism = 1.0
    		rotw_constitutional_monarchy = 1.0
    		rotw_noble_republic = 2.0
    		#theocratic_government = 2.0
    		rotw_feudal_monarchy = 2.0
    	}
    
    	royal_marriage = no #feature for european monarchies
    	officials = 0.5
    }
    
    despotic_monarchy = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.25
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		administrative_monarchy = 0.5
    		absolute_monarchy = 0.5	
    		enlightened_despotism = 1.0
    		constitutional_monarchy = 1.0
    		noble_republic = 2.0
    		#theocratic_government = 2.0
    		feudal_monarchy = 2.0
    	}
    	
    	maximum_policy = {
    		aristocracy_plutocracy = 2
    	}
    	maximum_policy = {
    		serfdom_freesubjects = 2
    	}
    	minimum_policy = {
    		centralization_decentralization = -2
    	}
    
    	#bonus
    	badboy_limit = 10
    	officials = 0.5
    }
    
    rotw_despotic_monarchy = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.25
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		rotw_administrative_monarchy = 0.5
    		rotw_absolute_monarchy = 0.5	
    		rotw_enlightened_despotism = 1.0
    		rotw_constitutional_monarchy = 1.0
    		rotw_noble_republic = 2.0
    		#theocratic_government = 2.0
    		rotw_feudal_monarchy = 2.0
    	}
    	
    	maximum_policy = {
    		aristocracy_plutocracy = 2
    	}
    	maximum_policy = {
    		serfdom_freesubjects = 2
    	}
    	minimum_policy = {
    		centralization_decentralization = -2
    	}
    
    	royal_marriage = no #feature for european monarchies
    
    	#bonus
    	badboy_limit = 10
    	officials = 0.5
    }
    
    feudal_monarchy = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.25
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		despotic_monarchy = 0.5
    		absolute_monarchy = 1.0
    		administrative_monarchy = 1.0
    	}
    	
    	maximum_policy = {
    		aristocracy_plutocracy = -1 
    	}
    	maximum_policy = {
    		serfdom_freesubjects  = 2
    	}
    	minimum_policy = {
    		centralization_decentralization = 0
    	}
    	
    	#bonus
    	land_forcelimit_modifier = 0.2
    	global_manpower_modifier = 0.1
    	officials = 0.5
    }
    
    rotw_feudal_monarchy = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.25
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		rotw_despotic_monarchy = 0.5
    		rotw_absolute_monarchy = 1.0
    		rotw_administrative_monarchy = 1.0
    	}
    	
    	maximum_policy = {
    		aristocracy_plutocracy = -1 
    	}
    	maximum_policy = {
    		serfdom_freesubjects  = 2
    	}
    	minimum_policy = {
    		centralization_decentralization = 0
    	}
    
    	royal_marriage = no #feature for european monarchies
    	
    	#bonus
    	land_forcelimit_modifier = 0.2
    	global_manpower_modifier = 0.1
    	officials = 0.5
    }
    
    merchant_republic = {
    	republic = yes
    	
    	mercantile_diplomacy = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = no
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.15
    	
    	duration = 4
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		administrative_republic = 0.5
    		bureaucratic_despotism = 1.0
    		feudal_monarchy = 2.0
    	}
    	
    	minimum_policy = {
    		aristocracy_plutocracy = 1
    	}
    	minimum_policy = {
    		centralization_decentralization = 0
    	}
    	
    	republican_name = yes
    	royal_marriage = no
    
    
    	#bonus
    	tolerance_heretic = 1
    	tolerance_heathen = 1
    #	global_cot_gravity = 30
    	merchant_cost = -0.25
    	officials = 0.4
    }
    
    imperial_government = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = no
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.20
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		administrative_monarchy = 0.5
    		absolute_monarchy = 0.5
    		enlightened_despotism = 1.0
    		constitutional_monarchy = 1.0
    		noble_republic = 2.0
    		#theocratic_government = 2.0
    		feudal_monarchy = 2.0
    	}
    	
    	maximum_policy = {
    		serfdom_freesubjects  = 1
    	}
    	minimum_policy = {
    		centralization_decentralization = -3
    	}
    
    	#bonus
    	land_morale = 0.25
    	officials = 0.6
    }
    
    rotw_imperial_government = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = no
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.20
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		rotw_administrative_monarchy = 0.5
    		rotw_absolute_monarchy = 0.5
    		rotw_enlightened_despotism = 1.0
    		rotw_constitutional_monarchy = 1.0
    		rotw_noble_republic = 2.0
    		#theocratic_government = 2.0
    		rotw_feudal_monarchy = 2.0
    	}
    	
    	maximum_policy = {
    		serfdom_freesubjects  = 1
    	}
    	minimum_policy = {
    		centralization_decentralization = -3
    	}
    
    	royal_marriage = no
    
    	#bonus
    	land_morale = 0.25
    	officials = 0.6
    }
    
    noble_republic = {
    	republic = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.15
    	
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		#administrative_republic = 0.5
    		#republican_dictatorship = 1.0
    		despotic_monarchy = 2.0
    	}
    	
    	minimum_policy = {
    		centralization_decentralization = -1
    	}
    
    	#bonus
    	tolerance_heretic = 1
    	tolerance_heathen = 1
    	officials = 0.5
    }
    
    rotw_noble_republic = {
    	republic = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.15
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		#administrative_republic = 0.5
    		#republican_dictatorship = 1.0
    		rotw_despotic_monarchy = 2.0
    	}
    	
    	minimum_policy = {
    		centralization_decentralization = -1
    	}
    
    	royal_marriage = no
    
    	#bonus
    	tolerance_heretic = 1
    	tolerance_heathen = 1
    	officials = 0.5
    }
    
    administrative_monarchy = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.15
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		constitutional_monarchy = 0.5
    		#administrative_republic = 2.0
    		despotic_monarchy = 2.0
    	}
    	minimum_policy = {
    		centralization_decentralization = -3
    	}
    	
    	#bonus
    	production_efficiency = 0.1
    	officials = 1.0
    }
    
    rotw_administrative_monarchy = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.15
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		rotw_constitutional_monarchy = 0.5
    		#administrative_republic = 2.0
    		rotw_despotic_monarchy = 2.0
    	}
    	minimum_policy = {
    		centralization_decentralization = -3
    	}
    
    	royal_marriage = no
    	
    	#bonus
    	production_efficiency = 0.1
    	officials = 1.0
    }
    
    administrative_republic = {
    	republic = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.05
    	
    	duration = 4
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		constitutional_republic = 0.5
    		republican_dictatorship = 0.5
    		bureaucratic_despotism = 1.0
    		#noble_republic = 2.0
    		#administrative_monarchy = 2.0
    	}
    	republican_name = yes
    	royal_marriage = no
    	
    	minimum_policy = {
    		centralization_decentralization = -3
    	}
    
    	#bonus
    	tolerance_heretic = 1
    	tolerance_heathen = 1
    	trade_efficiency = 0.1
    	officials = 1.0
    }
    
    absolute_monarchy = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 0.9
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		enlightened_despotism = 0.5
    		despotic_monarchy = 2.0
    		#republican_dictatorship = 2.0
    	}
    	
    	#bonus
    	discipline = 0.05
    	officials = 1.7
    }
    
    rotw_absolute_monarchy = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 0.9
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		rotw_enlightened_despotism = 0.5
    		rotw_despotic_monarchy = 2.0
    		#republican_dictatorship = 2.0
    	}
    
    	royal_marriage = no	
    
    	#bonus
    	discipline = 0.05
    	officials = 1.7
    }
    
    republican_dictatorship = {
    	republic = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 0.9
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		bureaucratic_despotism = 0.5
    		administrative_republic = 2.0
    		#absolute_monarchy = 2.0
    	}
    	republican_name = yes
    	royal_marriage = no
    
    	#BONUS
    	tolerance_heretic = 1
    	tolerance_heathen = 1
    	land_morale = 0.1
    	officials = 1.0
    }
    
    constitutional_monarchy = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.00
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		administrative_monarchy = 2.0
    		#constitutional_republic = 2.0
    	}
    	
    	#bonus
    	prestige_decay = -0.02
    	officials = 2.2
    }
    
    rotw_constitutional_monarchy = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.00
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		rotw_administrative_monarchy = 2.0
    		#constitutional_republic = 2.0
    	}
    
    	royal_marriage = no
    
    	#bonus
    	prestige_decay = -0.02
    	officials = 2.2
    }
    
    enlightened_despotism = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.00
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		absolute_monarchy = 2.0
    		#bureaucratic_despotism = 2.0
    	}
    	
    	minimum_policy = {
    		serfdom_freesubjects  = -3
    	}
    
    	#bonus
    	badboy = -0.25
    	global_spy_defence = 0.20
    	officials = 1.7
    }
    
    rotw_enlightened_despotism = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.00
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		rotw_absolute_monarchy = 2.0
    		#bureaucratic_despotism = 2.0
    	}
    	
    	minimum_policy = {
    		serfdom_freesubjects  = -3
    	}
    
    	royal_marriage = no
    
    	#bonus
    	badboy = -0.25
    	global_spy_defence = 0.20
    	officials = 1.7
    }
    	
    constitutional_republic = {
    	republic = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.00
    	
    	duration = 4
    	
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		#constitutional_monarchy = 2.0
    		administrative_republic = 2.0
    	}
    	
    	republican_name = yes
    	royal_marriage = no
    
    	#bonus
    	tolerance_heretic = 1
    	tolerance_heathen = 1
    	production_efficiency = 0.2
    	officials = 2.2
    }
    
    bureaucratic_despotism = {
    	republic = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 0.85
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		republican_dictatorship = 2.0
    		#enlightened_despotism = 2.0
    	}
    	
    	royal_marriage = no
    
    	#bonus
    	tolerance_heretic = 1
    	tolerance_heathen = 1
    	stability_cost_modifier = -0.20
    	officials = 2.8
    }
    
    theocratic_government = {
    	religion = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.22
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		#absolute_monarchy = 5.0
    	}
    
    	royal_marriage = no
    	
    	minimum_policy = {
    		innovative_narrowminded  = 0
    	}
    	
    	minimum_policy = {
    		centralization_decentralization = -4
    	}
    
    	#bonus
    	tolerance_own = 1
    	tolerance_heretic = -1
    	tolerance_heathen = -1
    	officials = 0.5
    	papal_influence = 0.05;
    }
    
    papal_government = {
    	religion = yes
    	papacy = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = no
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.20
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    	}
    
    	royal_marriage = no
    	minimum_policy = {
    		innovative_narrowminded  = 0
    	}
    	
    	#bonus
    	tolerance_own = 1
    	tolerance_heretic = -1
    	tolerance_heathen = -1
    	prestige = 0.01
    	officials = 1.5
    	papal_influence = 1;
    }
    
    tribal_despotism = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	tribal = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.30
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		tribal_federation = 2.0
    	}
    
    	minimum_policy = {
    		innovative_narrowminded = 1
    	}
    	minimum_policy = {
    		centralization_decentralization = 2
    	}
    
    	royal_marriage = no
    
    	#bonus
    	badboy_limit = 10
    	badboy = -1
    	
    	#malus
    	global_revolt_risk = 1
    }
    
    tribal_federation = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	tribal = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.30
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		tribal_despotism = 2.0
    	}
    	
    	minimum_policy = {
    		centralization_decentralization = 2
    	}
    
    	royal_marriage = no
    	
    	#bonus
    	land_forcelimit_modifier = 0.2
    	global_manpower_modifier = 0.2
    	badboy = -1
    
    	#malus
    	stability_cost_modifier = 0.5
    }
    
    tribal_democracy = {
    	republic = yes
    	tribal = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 1.30
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    	}
    	republican_name = yes
    	royal_marriage = no
    	
    	minimum_policy = {
    		aristocracy_plutocracy = -1
    	}
    	minimum_policy = {
    		centralization_decentralization = 2
    	}
    
    	#bonus
    	stability_cost_modifier = -0.33
    	
    }
    
    revolutionary_republic = {
    	republic = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = yes
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 0.8
    	
    	duration = 4
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		#revolutionary_empire = 1.0
    	}
    	republican_name = yes
    	royal_marriage = no
    
    	minimum_policy = {
    		aristocracy_plutocracy = 1
    	}	
    
    	#bonus
    	tolerance_heretic = 1
    	tolerance_heathen = 1
    	land_morale = 0.5
    	officials = 2.5
    }
    
    revolutionary_empire = {
    	monarchy = yes
    	
    	valid_for_new_country = no
    	
    	adm_efficiency = 0.8
    
    	allowed_conversion = {
    		#revolutionary_republic = 2.0
    	}
    	
    	#bonus
    	army_tradition = 0.01
    	global_manpower_modifier = 0.25
    	officials = 2.5
    
    }
    then you have to add in history files "rotw_" at the start of all monarchical governments names defined in the non European countries files. Excepted for the governments that only exists outside Europa (tribal governments and the celestial empire). If you only modify Japanese files, you just have to change government = feudal_monarchy by government = rotw_feudal_monarchy.

    and to finish, you have to add a localisation file with this :

    Code:
    rotw_despotic_monarchy_ruler_daimyo;Daimyo;daimyo;Daimyo;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_despotic_monarchy_daimyo;Daimyo;clan;Daimyo;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_despotic_monarchy_ruler_shogun;Shogun;shogun;Shogun;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_despotic_monarchy_shogun;Shogunate;shogunat;Shogunat;;;;;;;;;;;
    rotw_absolute_monarchy_ruler_daimyo;Daimyo;daimyo;Daimyo;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_absolute_monarchy_daimyo;Daimyo;clan;Daimyo;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_absolute_monarchy_ruler_shogun;Shogun;shogun;Shogun;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_absolute_monarchy_shogun;Shogunate;shogunat;Shogunat;;;;;;;;;;;
    rotw_administrative_monarchy_ruler_daimyo;Daimyo;daimyo;Daimyo;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_administrative_monarchy_daimyo;Daimyo;clan;Daimyo;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_administrative_monarchy_ruler_shogun;Shogun;shogun;Shogun;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_administrative_monarchy_shogun;Shogunate;shogunat;Shogunat;;;;;;;;;;;
    rotw_constitutional_monarchy_ruler_daimyo;Daimyo;daimyo;Daimyo;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_constitutional_monarchy_daimyo;Daimyo;clan;Daimyo;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_constitutional_monarchy_ruler_shogun;Shogun;shogun;Shogun;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_constitutional_monarchy_shogun;Shogunate;shogunat;Shogunat;;;;;;;;;;;
    rotw_enlightened_despotism_ruler_daimyo;Daimyo;daimyo;Daimyo;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_enlightened_despotism_daimyo;Daimyo;clan;Daimyo;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_enlightened_despotism_ruler_shogun;Shogun;shogun;Shogun;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_enlightened_despotism_shogun;Shogunate;shogunat;Shogunat;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_feudal_monarchy_ruler_daimyo;Daimyo;daimyo;Daimyo;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_feudal_monarchy_daimyo;Daimyo;clan;Daimyo;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_feudal_monarchy_ruler_shogun;Shogun;shogun;Shogun;;;;;;;;;;;x
    rotw_feudal_monarchy_shogun;Shogunate;shogunat;Shogunat;;;;;;;;;;;x
    (plus others titles, if you add those governments to others Asiatic countries).

    Quote Originally Posted by chatnoir17 View Post
    the emperor could help some daimyos to unify the land with giving legitimations or casi belli.
    If a daimyo unifies Japan, the emperor could ask ihm to return the power to him.
    I think that it can be really good.
    I also imagine that the shogun, the Kampaku and the emperor could accuse a daimyo being a "rebel". All others daimyos will have a casus belli against him.
    (we could perhaps create 3 flags "rebels", one for the kampaku, one for the emperor and one for the shogun. And each daimyo would have the opportunity to stay "neutral" or to join the faction of one of them, and only those who joined the faction of the kampaku would have the casus belli against "rebels" accused by the kampaku. [I'm not sure if it's a good idea... but think about it]).

    voilà

    PS : I played a little bit. because of my very low influence following a war I've started, the emperor asked me to seppuku. I did and as my heir was very young, I had a regency council. I stayed shogun and a couple of victories and annexation later, my influence raised. Is it realistic that my 9 years old ruler, under regency inherited the shogunate title? Shouldn't had I lost this title to another daimyo as my ruler was too young?
    Last edited by Captain Frakas; 22-12-2010 at 03:53.
    One does not put a king on trial. One kills him.
    One cannot reign innocently: the insanity of doing so is evident. Every king is a rebel and a usurper.
    Saint Just.

  8. #8
    Field Marshal chatnoir17's Avatar
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    Thanks again Captain Frakas!

    I added new government types from you into the mod.

    I think that there was no serious conflicts between the emperor, kampaku and shogun in this period,
    because kampaku and emperor belonged to japanese aristocrats and they had only small military power.
    (Normally daimyos couldnt be kampaku. Hideyoshi Toyotomis assumption of kampaku was a very special case.)
    But your faction idea is good for some cases such as Onin War, coalition against Nobunaga or Battle of Sekigahara.
    We could find some better ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Frakas View Post
    PS : I played a little bit. because of my very low influence following a war I've started, the emperor asked me to seppuku. I did and as my heir was very young, I had a regency council. I stayed shogun and a couple of victories and annexation later, my influence raised. Is it realistic that my 9 years old ruler, under regency inherited the shogunate title? Shouldn't had I lost this title to another daimyo as my ruler was too young?
    Yes, in the history there were many child shoguns.
    In the Muromachi (Ashikaga shogunate) and Edo (Tokugawa shogunate) period the hereditary rule by the shogun successiton was so strong, that onother clans had no hope to become shogun.
    For exemple, Yoshimochi Ashikaga (1386 - 1428) became shogun, as a 9-year-old boy.
    Naturally he had no power and his father Yoshimitsu governed as regent.
    In other cases some powerful daimyos ruled the shogunate in a oligarchic form.


    That is why I am not 100% satisfied with the HRE-like shogun system in DW.
    Last edited by chatnoir17; 22-12-2010 at 07:59.

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    The history file of Ashikaga should be edited according what you say :

    Code:
    government = rotw_feudal_monarchy
    aristocracy_plutocracy = -4
    centralization_decentralization = 2
    innovative_narrowminded = 2
    mercantilism_freetrade = -5
    offensive_defensive = -1
    land_naval = 0
    quality_quantity = -4
    serfdom_freesubjects = -5
    primary_culture = japanese
    religion = shinto
    technology_group = chinese
    capital = 1834	# Omi
    daimyo = yes
    
    1338.1.1 = {
    	shogun = 100 #I raised his influence to help the AI. Daimyos can't insult at 96-100. The conflict shouldn't start before an Onin War around 1465.
    	set_country_flag = new_shogun
    }
    
    1394.1.1 = {
    	monarch = { #regency of Ashikaga Yoshimitsu
    		name = " Yoshimitsu "
    		    dynasty = "Ashikaga"
    		    birth_date = 1358.9.25
    		    death_date = 1408.5.31
    		    adm = 5
    		    dip = 5
    		    mil = 5
    		    regent = yes
    	}
    	heir = { #Ashikaga Yoshimochi
        		name = "Yoshimochi"
    		    monarch_name = "Yoshimochi"
    		    dynasty = "Ashikaga"
    		    birth_date = 1386.3.12
    		    death_date = 1428.2.3
    		    claim = 95
    		    adm = 5
    		    dip = 5
    		    mil = 5
    	}
    }
    
    1408.5.31 = {
    	monarch = { #Ashikaga Yoshimochi
    		name = " Yoshimitsu "
    		    dynasty = "Ashikaga"
    		    birth_date = 1386.3.12
    		    death_date = 1428.2.3
    		    adm = 5
    		    dip = 5
    		    mil = 5
    	}
    	heir = { #Ashikaga Yoshikazu
        		name = "Yoshikazu"
    		    monarch_name = "Yoshikazu"
    		    dynasty = "Ashikaga"
    		    birth_date = 1407.8.27
    		    death_date = 1425.3.17
    		    claim = 95
    	}
    }
    Last edited by Captain Frakas; 22-12-2010 at 18:16.
    One does not put a king on trial. One kills him.
    One cannot reign innocently: the insanity of doing so is evident. Every king is a rebel and a usurper.
    Saint Just.

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    So must be done.
    I don't know enough parametes for exemple "regent = yes/no".
    Thank you!

    By the way, I made a table for the idea of japanese unification.



    Daimyo other than Ashikaga should experience some "become sengoku daimyo" events to be shogun or kampaku,
    because they need some kind of "paradigm shift", in order to free from the old social structure such as Ashikaga shogunate.
    This reform requires time, but wenn daimyo complete missions they will get bonus.

    What do you think about this idea?

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    You thanks me a lot, but for the moment you've done the job. I like this scenario and I only play EU3 with it for the moment (I played with more daimyos before).
    So I thank you for that.

    I think that the shogunate could be really fun to play if we have those different paths. It will also give re-playability.
    Daimyos should be able to "switch" paths thus. But it would add flavour. And give some specificity to the Ashikaga clan as they have more or less their own path to unification.

    Before your post, I've done the script of what I had suggested about having Minamoto as an ancestor and about making false dynastic claims about it.

    here it is :

    Code:
    #in event_modifiers.txt
    descend_from_minamoto = {
    	prestige = 0.05
    	legitimacy = 0.05
    	icon = 13
    }
    
    #in the decision folder
    shogunate_decisions = {
    	claim_descend_from_minamoto = {
    		potential = {
    			NOT = { has_country_modifier = descend_from_minamoto }
    			shogun_exists = no
    			is_daimyo = yes
    		}
    		allow = {
    			prestige = 0.8
    			legitimacy = 1
    			grand_marshal = 4
    		}
    		effect = {
    			infamy = 2.5
    			any_country = {
    				limit = { is_daimyo = yes has_country_modifier = descend_from_minamoto }
    				relation = { who = THIS value = -75 }
    				casus_belli = {
    					target = THIS
    					type = cb_insult
    					months = 12
    				}
    			}
    			add_country_modifier = {
    				name = "descend_from_minamoto"
    				duration = -1
    			}
    		}
    		ai_will_do = {
    			factor = 1
    		}
    	}
    }
    
    #in Japanesenation.txt in the same folder
    		
    	kampaku = { #ingame kampaku become claimant shogun, the kampaku seem to need to be used another way as kampaku didn't become shoguns (if I understand you correctly)
    		potential = {
    			is_daimyo = yes
    			shogun_exists = no
    			kampaku_exists = no #claimant shogun
    			has_country_modifier = descend_from_minamoto
    		}
    		allow = {
    			1020 = {
    				units_in_province = THIS
    			}
    			NOT = {
    				1020 = {
    					unit_in_battle = no
    				}
    			}
    			prestige = 0.2
    		}
    		effect = {
    			become_kampaku = yes #become claimant shogun
    			any_country = {
    				limit = {
    					is_daimyo = yes
    					NOT = { tag = THIS }
    				}
    				casus_belli = {
    					target = THIS
    					type = jap_civil_war					
    				}
    			}
    #			any_country = { #should be another decision IMHO, so daimyos that become allied or vassals after could use it... or change their mind. I'll script it if you are interested.
    #				limit = {
    #					is_daimyo = yes
    #					NOT = { tag = THIS }
    #					alliance_with = THIS
    #				}
    #				country_event = 10022
    #			}
    		}
    		ai_will_do = {
    			factor = 1
    		}
    	}
    (it is not tested) This shogunate decision work like this : if there is no more shogun, and if one Daimyo have a Grand Marshall level 4, max legitimacy and 80+ prestige, he can make false documents proving that his clan descend from the Minamoto clan. He will gain the Minamoto modifier (and some infamy), and all others Daimyos that already have the modifier (Ashikaga, Takega... from the start, and others that won it by this same decision) will drop their relations by -75pts and gain an insult casus belli against the claimant.

    The minamoto modifier could be used as triggers for various event or decisions and will be required to become shogunu as long as the "paradigm shift" that you describe isn't done.

    OK, I have to go now
    Last edited by Captain Frakas; 24-12-2010 at 00:45.
    One does not put a king on trial. One kills him.
    One cannot reign innocently: the insanity of doing so is evident. Every king is a rebel and a usurper.
    Saint Just.

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    @Captain Frakas
    A small question.
    I put this minamoto modifier into the event modifiers.txt, added a text for it in the localisation files
    and gave the modifier to ashikaga as a test, but it works not.
    Should I do somewhat more?

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    I also tried without success to add a modifier on history files.
    What you can do (it's not very clean scriptwise but player will not notice it) is to create an hiden decision

    Code:
    country_decisions = {
    
    	 descend_from_minamoto = {
    		potential = {
    			tag = JAP
    			NOT = { tag = JAP }
    		}
    	
    		allow = {
    			tag = JAP
    			NOT = { tag = JAP }
    		}
    	
    		effect = {
    			add_country_modifier = {
    				name = "descend_from_minamoto"
    				duration = -1
    			}
    		}
    	}
    }
    no need to do any localisation for this one, it will stay hidden.

    and then to add the decision to ashikaga and others concerned clans

    Code:
    government = rotw_feudal_monarchy
    aristocracy_plutocracy = -4
    centralization_decentralization = 2
    innovative_narrowminded = 2
    mercantilism_freetrade = -5
    offensive_defensive = -1
    land_naval = 0
    quality_quantity = -4
    serfdom_freesubjects = -5
    primary_culture = japanese
    religion = shinto
    technology_group = chinese
    capital = 1834	# Omi
    daimyo = yes
    decision = descend_from_minamoto
    
    1338.1.1 = {
    	shogun = 100 #I raised his influence to help the AI. Daimyos can't insult at 96-100. The conflict shouldn't start before an Onin War around 1465.
    	set_country_flag = new_shogun
    }
    
    1394.1.1 = {
    
    	monarch = { #regency of Ashikaga Yoshimitsu
    		name = " Yoshimitsu "
    		    dynasty = "Ashikaga"
    		    birth_date = 1358.9.25
    		    death_date = 1408.5.31
    		    adm = 5
    		    dip = 7
    		    mil = 6
    		    regent = yes
    	}
    	heir = { #Ashikaga Yoshimochi
        		name = "Yoshimochi"
    		    monarch_name = "Yoshimochi"
    		    dynasty = "Ashikaga"
    		    birth_date = 1386.3.12
    		    death_date = 1428.2.3
    		    claim = 95
    		    adm = 3
    		    dip = 6
    		    mil = 4
    	}
    }
    
    1408.5.31 = {
    	monarch = { #Ashikaga Yoshimochi
    		name = " Yoshimitsu "
    		    dynasty = "Ashikaga"
    		    birth_date = 1386.3.12
    		    death_date = 1428.2.3
    		    adm = 3
    		    dip = 6
    		    mil = 4
    	}
    	heir = { #Ashikaga Yoshikazu
        		name = "Yoshikazu"
    		    monarch_name = "Yoshikazu"
    		    dynasty = "Ashikaga"
    		    birth_date = 1407.8.27
    		    death_date = 1425.3.17
    		    claim = 95
    		    adm = 3
    		    dip = 3
    		    mil = 3
    	}
    }
    do not forget to add extend = decisions in Japan Mod.mod

    PS : I have also edited the claim_descend_from_minamoto decision in my previous post.
    Last edited by Captain Frakas; 24-12-2010 at 00:46.
    One does not put a king on trial. One kills him.
    One cannot reign innocently: the insanity of doing so is evident. Every king is a rebel and a usurper.
    Saint Just.

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    I released version 0.1a of Japan Mod as a christmas gift.

    @Captain Frakas
    I added that modifier and dicision with some changing (prestige bonus 5% -> 0.2%).
    In the next version I will add them to the condition for the japanese unification and the kampaku
    decision too.
    Last edited by chatnoir17; 24-12-2010 at 05:47.

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    I've spotted something in common\shogunate.txt : you have a lot of external actions of the shogun that require that the shogun influence is between 100 and 200, but the shogun influence is caped at 100. Is it intended ? This action will only be able at 100. You can't go higher so any event that reduce the influence by 0.1 will prohibit the shogun to rule foreign diplomacy of Japan.

    I think that we could add some others modifications in this file by the way :
    1. Comment out the royal marriage actions for the shogun and the daimyos. They do not need to appears as they are disabled.
    2. And if you want the emperor to be able to help some daimyos, you can add some diplomatic options for him :

    Code:
    emperor = {
    	weaken_shogunate =
    	{
    		internal = { 0 100 }
    	}
    	
    	strengthen_shogunate =
    	{
    		internal = { 0 100 }
    	}
    
    	giftaction =
    	{
    		internal = { -1 60 }
    	}
    
    	warsubsidy =
    	{
    		internal = { -1 60 }
    	}
    }
    history\countries\ASK - Ashikaga.txt lack the flag new_shogun used by the vanilla game. Is this suppression intended ?

    if not, it should be :

    Code:
    1368.1.1 = {
    	shogun = 90
    	set_country_flag = new_shogun
    }
    in localisation\Japanmod.csv, there is two lines about the rotw_feudal_monarchy and the game only read the first that say the government name is an Empire. You should erase the first line.
    You could be more explicit in the descend from Minamoto description. Daimyos of Minamoto line had a high prestige and are among those who can claim the hereditary shogunate office. or something like that.

    If you only change some lines in the text.csv, there is perhaps no need to add the whole file in the mod. Try to create a 9.0_text.csv with only the modified lines inside. I've read on another forum that it work.
    Last edited by Captain Frakas; 24-12-2010 at 16:34.
    One does not put a king on trial. One kills him.
    One cannot reign innocently: the insanity of doing so is evident. Every king is a rebel and a usurper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Frakas View Post
    I've spotted something in common\shogunate.txt : you have a lot of external actions of the shogun that require that the shogun influence is between 100 and 200, but the shogun influence is caped at 100. Is it intended ?
    Yes, I intended so, because I tryed that the shogun (I mean, any japanese countries before the unification) can't involve wars with foreign countries, because it is not historical. The Ashikaga shogunate had no interest and likely no power to declear war against Korea or China. The war with both countries begann after the unification by Toyotomi Hideyoshi.
    I want to let players rather concentrate on the unification before having the ambition to conquer the asian continent or
    southern islands. But if players want to challenge to the "if-history", it is no problem for me to rewrite the diplomatic definition.

    Thanks for your other sugessitons.
    I should create rather two government types for japan (daimyo and emperor).
    Daimyo can do royal marriage with each other, but because of the shogunate system they can't external.
    And the government type by the emperor allows not the royal marriage action.

    I seconded your diplomatic actions for the emperor.
    We can add some dicisions for him later.
    It would be nice to play the emperor, if he could manipulate daimyos without wars by himself!

    I also found some mistakes, so I try to release a new verson as soon as possible.
    Last edited by chatnoir17; 24-12-2010 at 19:11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chatnoir17 View Post
    Yes, I intended so, because I tryed that the shogun (I mean, any japanese countries before the unification) can't involve wars with foreign countries, because it is not historical. The Ashikaga shogunate had no interest and likely no power to declear war against Korea or China. The war with both countries begann after the unification by Toyotomi Hideyoshi.
    It make sense. You're right.


    Quote Originally Posted by chatnoir17 View Post
    I should create rather two government types for japan (daimyo and emperor).
    Daimyo can do royal marriage with each other, but because of the shogunate system they can't external.
    And the government type by the emperor allows not the royal marriage action.
    If Daimyos could do royal marriages, you'll have Ashikaga family characters that rule Date clan, Mogami family character that rule Ouichi clan, Takeda family characters that rule Toki clan, etc. and Sagara character family that rule both Kono and Shoni clan, as separated states under personal union.
    It sound a little bit silly if Toki clan isn't ruled by a Toki, Ouichi clan isn't ruled by a Ouichi etc.

    And in this case, the modifier "descend from Minamoto" will be out of place : The Ashikaga descend from Minamoto so we say "the Ashikaga clan descend from Minamoto and deserve the modifier" but if, following a royal marriage, a random daimyo's dynasty take the throne of the Ashikaga clan, the persistence of the modifier will be somewhat weird.

    The clans and their ruling dynasties are the same thing. IMHO it doesn't make any sense to allow royal marriage in this case. The sole mean of this diplomatic option is to let foreign dynasties/foreign monarchs be crowned as rulers of your country. This concept (the personal union, the foreign monarch that come to rule) is really specific of Europe and doesn't work outside this continent.

    Historically, marriages of Daimyos were not "royal marriages" but rather "gifts" if we talk game concepts. And this is true for the whole Asiatic continent.
    I could be wrong and you can correct me, but I have few doubts.
    Last edited by Captain Frakas; 24-12-2010 at 18:32.
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    I could say some examples for rulers from other clans, (naturally they must have changed his family names), but I unterstand your opinion and agree about it.
    It is more problematic and unrealistic by PU rather than by royal marriage itself.
    In addition, there were not "royal" marriage among daimyos.

    By the way, though the dynasty system has a far develpment since HttT, we have still problems.
    In the japanese case, the dynastic names could be changed easily also by a revolt.
    We must have a imagination by this case.
    I think european countries have a little problem in the game.
    They had in the middle age many rules for dynastic names, didn't they?
    For exemple, french dukes had renamed themselves by their dukedoms, (Phlipp de valois -> Phlipp de Bourgogne), but german nobles had keeped his original names. (So the habsburger didn't change their family name to "von Oesterreich".)
    <Edit>I was wrong. see Maria Teresia for exemple.
    Sadly EU3 doesn't represent such a datail, though it is a small thing, of course.
    Last edited by chatnoir17; 24-12-2010 at 21:40.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chatnoir17 View Post
    It is more problematic and unrealistic by PU rather than by royal marriage itself.
    The royal marriage diplomatic option only serve to have PU. It doesn't have any others purposes (but some side effects).
    If we don't want PU mechanisms I don't see why we would want "royal marriage". IMHO they are indissociable.


    Quote Originally Posted by chatnoir17 View Post
    By the way, though the dynasty system has a far develpment since HttT, we have still problems.
    In the japanese case, the dynastic names could be changed easily also by a revolt.
    There is infinitely less dynastic changes following rebellions than dynastic changes following royal marriages. You'll have dozens of dynastic changes if you allow RM.

    By the way, pretender rebels of a clan will only use family name defined in the clan file for generals and advisers. If you define just the clan family name there, there will not be any problem at all. We can accept the fact that peoples that have the power in the Ashikaga clan (war leaders and advisers) are mostly from the Ashikaga dynasty. So IMHO it doesn't pose any problems to do this and it solve the others problems.


    ---


    Quote Originally Posted by chatnoir17 View Post
    I think european countries have a little problem in the game.
    They had in the middle age many rules for dynastic names, didn't they?
    For exemple, french dukes had renamed themselves by their dukedoms, (Phlipp de valois -> Phlipp de Bourgogne),
    French dukes didn't renamed themselves, it's just that there is a lot of way to call a ruler : you can use a nickname (Philippe le Hardi because he is was known as a bold fighter), his dynasty name (Philippe de Valois-Bourgogne; Bourgogne is added to Valois [and do not replace it] because Philippe of Valois is granted the appanage of Burgundy and thus start a cadet branch of the Capetian house of Valois dynasty) and by the estates ruled by the dynasty, with or without numerals (Philippe de Bourgogne/Philippe II de Bourgogne, because he rule Burgundy, but this same guy is also called Philippe I de Charolais et Philippe IV d'Artois), with or without it's first name (you could just say Bourgogne and we know that you talk about Philippe if the context is between 1363 and 1404).

    Charles de Valois, king of France was known as Charles de France.

    Quote Originally Posted by chatnoir17 View Post
    but german nobles had keeped his original names. (So the habsburger didn't change their family name to "von Oesterreich".)
    Neither the habsburger nor the french dukes changed their familly name and both where called by their estates or by their dynastical names.
    For example Ana de Habsburgo was called Ana de Austria y Austria-Estiria in her country (spaniards use both the name of the father and the name of the mother, separated by "y" (and)) and Anne d'Autriche in France.


    To conclude :
    Quote Originally Posted by chatnoir17 View Post
    Sadly EU3 doesn't represent such a datail, though it is a small thing, of course.
    The dynastic name of Ana de Austria y Austria-Estiria is "Habsburgo" and the dynastic name of Philippe de Bourgogne is "Valois-Bourgogne" (and all Valois-Bourgogne are from the Valois dynasty). So it more or less represent such details except that the engine doesn't create cadet branch.
    Last edited by Captain Frakas; 24-12-2010 at 20:41.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Frakas View Post
    By the way, pretender rebels of a clan will only use family name defined in the clan file for generals and advisers. If you define just the clan family name there, there will not be any problem at all. We can accept the fact that peoples that have the power in the Ashikaga clan (war leaders and advisers) are mostly from the Ashikaga dynasty. So IMHO it doesn't pose any problems to do this and it solve the others problems.
    It is a way of solutions. But I want to see more family names in a daimyo clan.
    There are three reasons.
    1. It gives us simply the variety of japanese family names.
    2. I think that the power of daimyos was so decentrized that many people outside the family must have worked. By the shogunate a lot of daimyos served the shogun, and in fiefs of each daimyo local Samurai worked as agent.
    So, if the Kikuchi clan ruled by Sagara, maybe we could imagine that Kikuchi clan exists, but someone of Sagara family posesses the de facto power, or a man of Sagaara became the son in law of Kikuchi. In the 15th and 16th centuries it happend oftens. For exemple, the Hosokawa clan, one of the strongest Daimyos in the 15th century, was ruled by Miyoshi in the 16th century, but Miyoshi itself was later ruled by Matsunaga. In this case, Hosokawa or Miyoshi existed, but they lost thier political influence in the house. Thus there were a lot of Gekokujo or coup d'État.
    3. There are another types of rebellion than pretender-rebels.
    EU3 gives us a large place for our imagination. I think this case belongs to it.

    Thank you for teaching about the european aristcrats. People can see also in the japanese history such a strong identity about the original house.
    Daimyos descend from minamoto named themselves as Minamoto in offcial documents, and other daimyos and aristcrats did that too.

    (28.12.10)
    Well, I remarked that we should have rather one family name for one daimyo as you said.
    A daimyo with the variety of family names has a big problem by the succession without heir.
    I will change hisotry files in the next version, which contains two variations: the one has many japanse names, und the other has not.
    Last edited by chatnoir17; 30-12-2010 at 22:29.

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