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Thread: Magna Mundi Developer's Diary #4: POWER RANK: THE INTANGIBLE OF DIPLOMACY

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ubik View Post
    Sure. Master Helius will give his lecture when the time comes.
    Nice. One of the many things to look forward to.
    They are made of wood with cushions.
    Are they silk-covered and are they sufficiently comfy? (Sufficiently comfy to please the average holy roman noble butt?)

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aulus View Post
    It's an interesting decision to make this percentage-based. So, if I'm, say, Hesse and #30 with 200 nations in the world and some OPM in India gets annexed I get bumped out of Major Power status even if hardly anyone in Europe knows India exists yet?
    Exactly. This is a general rank and entirely designed like that on purpose.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arbus View Post
    Ah right I missed this part: "The seven bigger countries classified as Major Powers will instead be classified as Greater Powers, as long as the total sum of their score is equal to or greater than a certain (high) amount." So this trigger means there are either 7 Greater Powers or none.
    No. Any Major power that passes the absolute score needed to ascend to Greater Power will do so. A maximum of 7 Greater Powers can exist at a time.

    I asked for the interface because in the mod there are values for the alignment of the greater powers, like France might be allied with Russia against England and Austria, and then there would be another axis with the remaining 3 powers allied or not. I suppose we can see a ledger with the classification of all countries, and the interface would just help to see the minor allies of a coalition.
    Greater Powers per se have nothing more to them than a Minor Holding (other than they are, indeed, much more powerful). I picked seven probably because it's the number of Great Powers existing in my favourite boardgame (Empires in Arms).
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romtos View Post
    Are they silk-covered and are they sufficiently comfy? (Sufficiently comfy to please the average holy roman noble butt?)
    It depends on the ammount of redbull available.
    == MAGNA MUNDI ==

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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ubik View Post
    It depends on the ammount of redbull available.
    I challenge the implication there might be any correlation between aviation inducing concoctions and comfy cushions. That would be silly.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubik View Post
    No. Any Major power that passes the absolute score needed to ascend to Greater Power will do so. A maximum of 7 Greater Powers can exist at a time.
    Ok now I really understand I thougth it would be the sum of the top seven that had to exceed a certain amount.

    You also mentioned that it will be an important trigger for scripts, can you give an example?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arbus View Post
    Ok now I really understand I thougth it would be the sum of the top seven that had to exceed a certain amount.

    You also mentioned that it will be an important trigger for scripts, can you give an example?

    Well, as important as the scripter wants to use it, but given the fact it was used 1273 in the mod, it is certainly VERY important.
    == MAGNA MUNDI ==

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    INSTILL FEAR,
    PROMISE HOPE


    HISTORY IS YOURS!

  8. #28
    Why wasn't Jerusalem in that list?
    Hm. I mean, it was diminishing in importance by that period, I suppose.
    Last edited by PenguinOverlord; 11-12-2010 at 06:50.

  9. #29
    Very impressive. I see the interface has improved dramatically since the last time I saw it.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinOverlord View Post
    Why wasn't Jerusalem in that list?
    Hm. I mean, it was diminishing in importance by that period, I suppose.
    Yeah, it became rather unimportant by the start date of the game. No more zealous crusades.

  11. #31
    Part Time Warp aldriq's Avatar
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    How will a player perceive other nations' standing? Just the plain status and ranking number, with the more detailed stats uncovered by spy missions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ubik View Post
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by aldriq View Post
    How will a player perceive other nations' standing? Just the plain status and ranking number, with the more detailed stats uncovered by spy missions?
    You'll see at all times other countries' Power Level. As for particular rankings you'll need to be infiltrated in the particular area and if you are infiltrated in all areas, you'll have de final ranking also.
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    INSTILL FEAR,
    PROMISE HOPE


    HISTORY IS YOURS!

  13. #33
    Some of these factors effect things negatively right?

    Like war exhaustion?... and does number of cultures give a bonus or a malus? because presumably ethnic homogeneity would give a (small) bonus.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarbiter View Post
    Some of these factors effect things negatively right?

    Like war exhaustion?... and does number of cultures give a bonus or a malus? because presumably ethnic homogeneity would give a (small) bonus.
    Yes, some give a malus.

    Cultural diversity gives a bonus.
    == MAGNA MUNDI ==

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    INSTILL FEAR,
    PROMISE HOPE


    HISTORY IS YOURS!

  15. #35
    This all looks very nice. Though I am a bit surprised by Karbala beating Jerusalem to the list. While I understand its significance to the Shiite peoples, I don't believe that it is any more holy than Najaf. Jerusalem, on the other hand, bore a religious significance to all Christian, Muslim, and Jewish peoples (though, admittedly, the Christians in particular were unlikely to be so attached to Jerusalem as the Shiites were and are their holy sites.)

    Just a quick (and possibly unnecessary) comment: I'm not entirely sure I understand the title of this DD. While I've played MM for years and am thoroughly attached to it (and am keen to buy the game the day it comes out) I can imagine a newcomer might be a little bemused by the title. Ubik, did you perhaps mean "The Intangibility of Diplomacy?" Seems like a bit of an odd title, as neatly ranking all of the nations in order seems to make diplomacy more tangible. But Lord knows, it's really not that big of a deal.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garriath View Post
    This all looks very nice. Though I am a bit surprised by Karbala beating Jerusalem to the list. While I understand its significance to the Shiite peoples, I don't believe that it is any more holy than Najaf. Jerusalem, on the other hand, bore a religious significance to all Christian, Muslim, and Jewish peoples (though, admittedly, the Christians in particular were unlikely to be so attached to Jerusalem as the Shiites were and are their holy sites.)

    Just a quick (and possibly unnecessary) comment: I'm not entirely sure I understand the title of this DD. While I've played MM for years and am thoroughly attached to it (and am keen to buy the game the day it comes out) I can imagine a newcomer might be a little bemused by the title. Ubik, did you perhaps mean "The Intangibility of Diplomacy?" Seems like a bit of an odd title, as neatly ranking all of the nations in order seems to make diplomacy more tangible. But Lord knows, it's really not that big of a deal.
    LOL!

    Well, my english mastery leaves much to be desired... I though that intangible related to Power Rank could be used.
    == MAGNA MUNDI ==

    PAY GOLD,
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    INSTILL FEAR,
    PROMISE HOPE


    HISTORY IS YOURS!

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garriath View Post
    This all looks very nice. Though I am a bit surprised by Karbala beating Jerusalem to the list. While I understand its significance to the Shiite peoples, I don't believe that it is any more holy than Najaf.
    I think Najaf is in the Karbala province in the game (if the province setup didn't change there).

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garriath View Post
    Just a quick (and possibly unnecessary) comment: I'm not entirely sure I understand the title of this DD. While I've played MM for years and am thoroughly attached to it (and am keen to buy the game the day it comes out) I can imagine a newcomer might be a little bemused by the title. Ubik, did you perhaps mean "The Intangibility of Diplomacy?" Seems like a bit of an odd title, as neatly ranking all of the nations in order seems to make diplomacy more tangible. But Lord knows, it's really not that big of a deal.
    Sorry to disagree, but it seemed perfectly apropos, to me. "Power Rank", or "importance" or "clout", however you wish to put it, is a major intangible influence on diplomacy. Ranking nations thus does make it "tangible", of course, but such a mechanism is needed only because the player, unlike government functionaries IRL, is not constantly immersed in the day-to-day conversations where the perceptions of such "Power Rank" are formed.

    If anything, my only worry is that the objective list makes the rank too 'tangible'. What the team is trying to quantify, here, is subjective, I think, and might benefit from being formulated for each nation based on (a) the objective measures as already described, (b) the geographic proximity of the target nation to the nation's population centres and (c) the cultural preferences of the assessing country (e.g. monarcies value military might, merchant republics value trade strength, etc.).
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balesir View Post
    If anything, my only worry is that the objective list makes the rank too 'tangible'. What the team is trying to quantify, here, is subjective, I think, and might benefit from being formulated for each nation based on (a) the objective measures as already described, (b) the geographic proximity of the target nation to the nation's population centres and (c) the cultural preferences of the assessing country (e.g. monarcies value military might, merchant republics value trade strength, etc.).

    It gets intangible again as you will not know the rank of other countries and the said rank will be used internally for many, many different effects in terms of game mechanics, thus, hidden from the player again.

    You'll only see the rank once you finish the scenario.
    == MAGNA MUNDI ==

    PAY GOLD,
    SHED BLOOD,
    INSTILL FEAR,
    PROMISE HOPE


    HISTORY IS YOURS!

  20. #40
    AoD's Old Geezer Balesir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubik View Post
    It gets intangible again as you will not know the rank of other countries and the said rank will be used internally for many, many different effects in terms of game mechanics, thus, hidden from the player again.
    Will you get no idea of other countries rankings? Some sort of "fuzzy blob" with a size related to rank might be good - just to give a guide whether this guy is a "big player" or a "little fish"?
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