Industrialisng as Haiti

[nog]

I've started a game as Haiti to better understand the industrial and economic aspect of the game, free from wars and other great power meddlings.

My first act as El Presidente was to build a cement factory on my only island and put my NF to craftsman... soon enough I had 1000 unemployed so I built my first factory - cement - and it started churning out a poor, though adequete profit of £9-10 per day. Shortly after, I built a glass factory too, just to add some extra industry.

Tech wise, I've been researching things to increase my tabacco farm sizes and outputs, plus making my factories more efficient. Worked well so far, I'm making a few extra pounds.

Now my question is where to go from here? Militarily, I have my eyes on stealing Cuba from Spain but that's a long way away yet. Should I wait for my factories to get more workers? Change my NF? Or build more factories?

Thanks.

[Dunny774]

I would personally go with the industrial area

[nog]

I would personally go with the industrial area

I think you better go put the picture up

[Raph]

I've started a game as Haiti to better understand the industrial and economic aspect of the game, free from wars and other great power meddlings.

My first act as El Presidente was to build a cement factory on my only island and put my NF to craftsman... soon enough I had 1000 unemployed so I built my first factory - cement - and it started churning out a poor, though adequete profit of £9-10 per day. Shortly after, I built a glass factory too, just to add some extra industry.

Tech wise, I've been researching things to increase my tabacco farm sizes and outputs, plus making my factories more efficient. Worked well so far, I'm making a few extra pounds.

Now my question is where to go from here? Militarily, I have my eyes on stealing Cuba from Spain but that's a long way away yet. Should I wait for my factories to get more workers? Change my NF? Or build more factories?

Thanks.

That sounds pretty much how I'd go about it too. However, you might consider going for a clergymen NF early on for the added research. Also, getting medicine early will boost your population growth and that's always nice. If you're up to it, you might try to piss your POPs off until you can make reforms and get healthcare for added POP growth.

If you want to expand in the carribbean, you'll need more soldiers, but first and foremost a strong navy. The French and Spanish holdings are probably off limits, but you should be able to snatch up the Spanish and Dutch holdings as long as you have a superiour navy, and they don't have too big garrissons on the islands (they usually have none). Just land a brigade or two on the islands and blockade their homeland (unless you have troops for an invasion) and you should be able to make them give them up.

What are your budget settings?

[nog]

That sounds pretty much how I'd go about it too. However, you might consider going for a clergymen NF early on for the added research. Also, getting medicine early will boost your population growth and that's always nice. If you're up to it, you might try to piss your POPs off until you can make reforms and get healthcare for added POP growth.

If you want to expand in the carribbean, you'll need more soldiers, but first and foremost a strong navy. The French and Spanish holdings are probably off limits, but you should be able to snatch up the Spanish and Dutch holdings as long as you have a superiour navy, and they don't have too big garrissons on the islands (they usually have none). Just land a brigade or two on the islands and blockade their homeland (unless you have troops for an invasion) and you should be able to make them give them up.

What are your budget settings?

Of the top of my head, all maximum except for military which is pretty low, I see no need for military yet.

[Rastar]

On the industrial side, it sounds like you are doing quite well. Since Haiti is a bit thin on population, I suspect that the 2 factories you already have are plenty. Your risk here is if coal gets scarce, as that would cause problems to both factories.

For increasing $$$, would think the research you are already doing on tobacco farm efficiency, plus railroads, are the best things possible.

On the military side, some of the South American countries have very small armies. In the very early going Peru and Ecuador only have a couple brigades each. Over time the USA will often put most of South America in it's sphere of influence, so if you want to attack you need to do it before that happens. You could switch your NF to promoting soldiers, but that would mean fewer people headed to the factories.

How is your clergy percentage? If it is below 2%, then you could probably boost your research a lot by changing the NF to promoting clergy. Since tobacco is a pretty valuable crop, you should have a lot of rich farmers that are ready to promote to something better.

In my current game (around 1885), Haiti is in the sphere of the USA and cuban revolters have just succeeded in freeing the country from Spain.

[nog]

On the industrial side, it sounds like you are doing quite well. Since Haiti is a bit thin on population, I suspect that the 2 factories you already have are plenty. Your risk here is if coal gets scarce, as that would cause problems to both factories.

For increasing $$$, would think the research you are already doing on tobacco farm efficiency, plus railroads, are the best things possible.

On the military side, some of the South American countries have very small armies. In the very early going Peru and Ecuador only have a couple brigades each. Over time the USA will often put most of South America in it's sphere of influence, so if you want to attack you need to do it before that happens. You could switch your NF to promoting soldiers, but that would mean fewer people headed to the factories.

How is your clergy percentage? If it is below 2%, then you could probably boost your research a lot by changing the NF to promoting clergy. Since tobacco is a pretty valuable crop, you should have a lot of rich farmers that are ready to promote to something better.

In my current game (around 1885), Haiti is in the sphere of the USA and cuban revolters have just succeeded in freeing the country from Spain.

Is there a way to see how many farmers want to promote to something better? I'm a bit clumsy when it comes to managing my population, could I promote them to something else if I wanted to?

But yes, I'm pretty sure it's far below 2%.

[Raph]

Is there a way to see how many farmers want to promote to something better? I'm a bit clumsy when it comes to managing my population, could I promote them to something else if I wanted to?

But yes, I'm pretty sure it's far below 2%.

They promote on their own, but if you want to see the factors concerning their promotions, go to their POP screen and then click on the POP icon for the POP you want to examine to get a more detailed view.

If you want to increase your clergy percentage, set a NF for clergymen, raise education expenditure to 100% and make sure administration expenditure is less than 100%. This is to provide incentive for poor people to promote to clergy rather than beuraucrats. Lower your poor taxes as much as you can, but keep the middle taxes high. This is to provide your poor POPs with the means to promote into the middle class, while preventing your middle class pops - i.e. clergy - from promoting into the upper class.

[Dunny774]

They promote on their own, but if you want to see the factors concerning their promotions, go to their POP screen and then click on the POP icon for the POP you want to examine to get a more detailed view.

If you want to increase your clergy percentage, set a NF for clergymen, raise education expenditure to 100% and make sure administration expenditure is less than 100%. This is to provide incentive for poor people to promote to clergy rather than beuraucrats. Lower your poor taxes as much as you can, but keep the middle taxes high. This is to provide your poor POPs with the means to promote into the middle class, while preventing your middle class pops - i.e. clergy - from promoting into the upper class.

What slider movements would you do for each person type

[Rastar]

Is there a way to see how many farmers want to promote to something better? I'm a bit clumsy when it comes to managing my population, could I promote them to something else if I wanted to?

But yes, I'm pretty sure it's far below 2%.

If you go look at your farmer pops, you can see how many are promoting now and what they are promoting into. Right now you are probably getting some into clergy, but others are becoming bureaucrats or artisans. If you set the NF to clergy, you pretty much guarantee that all promotions are into clergy.

Then you can do the things that Ralph suggests in order to get as many farmers as possible to promote.

[nog]

They promote on their own, but if you want to see the factors concerning their promotions, go to their POP screen and then click on the POP icon for the POP you want to examine to get a more detailed view.

If you want to increase your clergy percentage, set a NF for clergymen, raise education expenditure to 100% and make sure administration expenditure is less than 100%. This is to provide incentive for poor people to promote to clergy rather than beuraucrats. Lower your poor taxes as much as you can, but keep the middle taxes high. This is to provide your poor POPs with the means to promote into the middle class, while preventing your middle class pops - i.e. clergy - from promoting into the upper class.

That makes sense. Won't that encourage my middle classes to either go back down to lower classes or emigrate though?

[Raph]

That makes sense. Won't that encourage my middle classes to either go back down to lower classes or emigrate though?

That depends on your tax efficiency and your other slider settings. In early game you'll have very low tax efficiency, meaning that 100% middle taxes actually means something like 25% effective taxes - your POPs will keep the rest of their money. However, combined with tariffs you'll be able to get pretty much of their money, so watch this carefully. Your middle class POPs are clerks, clergy, beuraucrats and officers.

Clergy will have a lot of money, since your education slider is at 100% - that money goes straight into the pockets of the clergy. Your 'crats will get money from the administration slider. If you put that slider low, together with high middle taxes and tariffs, some of them might demote to poor strata. This might actually be good, if you have too many crats, since it'll boost your numbers of either soldiers, farmers/labourers or craftsmen, most likely craftsmen or soldiers, all of which are useful to you. Officers will get their money from the military spending slider. Here, your plans for future expansion will decide. If you keep this slider low, you might loose some officers, but your soldiers will probably do OK since you have low poor taxes. Lastly, clerks. They get their wages from the factories they work in, and could be pretty hurt by high middle taxes and tariffs. However, you're not likely to have many clerks at this stage of the game (or later, for that matter). All in all, it's pretty safe to keep middle taxes at 100%, as long as you're mindful of what you do with the other sliders and how they affect your desired pop composition.

[nog]

In all honesty, I can't see the big benefit the middle class are providing thus far as Haiti, except maybe my clergy. Are my artisans really that worthwhile? It seems they may make one glass between 300 of them and sell it for £1. I'd much rather press gang them into the factories and get them making proper goods. I think I'll try your method of reducing the numbers.

I'll keep this thread updated with how my country grows, just not sure the next time I'll be able to play.

[Raph]

In all honesty, I can't see the big benefit the middle class are providing thus far as Haiti, except maybe my clergy. Are my artisans really that worthwhile? It seems they may make one glass between 300 of them and sell it for £1. I'd much rather press gang them into the factories and get them making proper goods. I think I'll try your method of reducing the numbers.

I'll keep this thread updated with how my country grows, just not sure the next time I'll be able to play.

You're definately on the right track there; the artisans will probably be of more benefit to you as craftsmen. You only really need the clergy, and they'll stay well-fed thanks to your education budget.

[nog]

You're definately on the right track there; the artisans will probably be of more benefit to you as craftsmen. You only really need the clergy, and they'll stay well-fed thanks to your education budget.

It's taking its time, but I am slowly getting to grips with this game.

[nog]

I've done everything described in this thread - upped tarrifs, upped middle class taxes etc and it's certainly having an effect on the number of craftsman: they seem to be falling. Pretty much every craftsman pop is falling in number, either promoting into clergy, which isn't too bad.. or demoting into farmers, which is very very bad. How can I get them away from the fields and into the factories?

[Raph]

I've done everything described in this thread - upped tarrifs, upped middle class taxes etc and it's certainly having an effect on the number of craftsman: they seem to be falling. Pretty much every craftsman pop is falling in number, either promoting into clergy, which isn't too bad.. or demoting into farmers, which is very very bad. How can I get them away from the fields and into the factories?

Those things shouldn't be affecting them, at least not middle taxes. You might have to decrease tariffs. To make sure what's happening, check their details in the POP screen to see what factors are making them promote/demote.

[Slaists]

As Haiti, you probably have no resources. So, inputs for your factories are being bought from abroad. Thus, raising the tariffs makes your industry less competitive.

[nog]

I got my craftsman problem resolved. It's about 15 years in and I've got roughly 6000 craftsman between 2 factories... Which is decent I think.

The resource problem - can it be fixed? Or is territorial expansion my only route?

If I do acquire more resources, say coal, and I get 20 units from an RGO, but my factory requires 5 units... Am I correct in thinking it costs me nothing to put the coal in my factorys and the res is sold for money?

[Avisian]

Your factories buy whatever they need first and then it gets sold on the world market. Later in the game domestic needs and high prestige GB drain wood, coal and steel from the market. Unless you produce them yourself or somehow magically surpassed GB/France in prestige they will run dry and your high level factories won't produce