(MOD) Oriental Mod

[Trin Tragula]

The starting dynasty in Sindh will remain the Sammas of course as they ruled Sindh in 1399. But the game also keeps track of other possible dynasties in the same regions in the eventuality that a dynasty dies out. The Soomrah dynasty was in power in Sindh as late as the 1330-1350s (during this time they were gradually replaced by the Sammas) and the tribe remained in Sindh even later on so they should definitively be on that list.
As the Soomra tribe had both Muslim and Hindu members I don't see the need to force the dynasty to belong to a particular religion (indeed the rulers from around the 1350s and atleast 200 years backwards where all Muslims).

[Rajputs]

Yes that may be true but the origanal Soomrah dynasty was Hindu
and it is supposed that they migrated to Gujarat. And, therefore this is not
enough evidence to say that some of the Soomrahs were converted to Islam
as they could of just used the name and nothing else.

One thing I have noticied is all the Holy War casus bellis have been removed.

[BritNavFan]

The only way to turn of royal marriages is to put Hinduism in another religion group than Islam. If I do that then the AI will not ally with countries of the other religion so that's probably not worth the trouble.

You can get AI countries to ally with AI countries of another religion group. Open \common\defines.txt. Line 112 reads as

	1650 # End of Crusade/Excommunicate actions. AI might also befriend old religious enemies.

Before this date, it's almost impossible to get cross-religion-group alliances (except for vassals of course), but after this date cross-religion-group alliances happen reasonably frequently.

I'm not suggesting you should change anything, but just pointing out that the option is there if you choose to use it.

[kylefight11]

May I Include this mod in the mod I am starting? I will give due credit of course.

[Trin Tragula]

You can get AI countries to ally with AI countries of another religion group. Open \common\defines.txt. Line 112 reads as

	1650 # End of Crusade/Excommunicate actions. AI might also befriend old religious enemies.

Before this date, it's almost impossible to get cross-religion-group alliances (except for vassals of course), but after this date cross-religion-group alliances happen reasonably frequently.

I'm not suggesting you should change anything, but just pointing out that the option is there if you choose to use it.

Thanks,
I noticed that the other day actually (in the Il Principe thread). But as stated I do want to keep royal marriages in South Asia around. I'd love to be able to just tone them down though (and that goes for Europe too, most countries have around 30 marriages ever since paradox taught the AI it could use them to increase legitimacy in a patch). Using one religion group for muslims and hindus also does nice things for tolerance and sikhism in the game (even if it's a bit weird from a theological point of view to split hinduism and buddhism).
It's too bad the religious tolerance thing uses a set year and not some sort of trigger one could manipulate, having it set to a particular year seems very arbitrary (especially as it has worldwide effects). Perhaps it ought to be enabled all along really... I don't much care for how the in game "crusades" work. I dislike removing the excommunications though (even if they're a bit too prevalent as well in the game).

May I Include this mod in the mod I am starting? I will give due credit of course.

You may, and in general I try to answer any questions people who adapt my mod have but I can't really get more involved in that (I saw in the PM you sent that you'd like help with the implementation) as I have very limited time for modding/etc. Sorry for not replying sooner to you but again I haven't got a lot of online time these days.

[kylefight11]

Thank you, and your replying time is fine.

[Rajputs]

How could I change who owns what provinces.

[Rajputs]

Could you make Mewar stronger?
Also I have found out that Rewa Kantha was ruled by Rajputs and therefore it should be Hindu.

[Trin Tragula]

The state of Rewa Kantha starts as Hindu for all dates
The province itself does not as the area had a lot of tribal religions (often mixed with hinduism as is/was often the case in India). As far as I can tell there was still a lot of adherents to tribal religions in the area in as late as in the 1930's.
With the update all countries will start with 3 ideas rather than 0 so Mewar will have more specific strengths (as will all other countries). I do find Mewar does well often though. With the rajput military tradition and their nice starting position as well as their silver mines they've got a lot of going for them.

An update is nearing btw, if slowly.

[Rajputs]

I have found that unlike vanilla Vijyanagar doesn't always demolish the Bahmani Sultanate.
This is good. However in a game I'm playing the Bahmani Sultanate have 70k army.
It keeps declaring wars of aggresion on Vijyanagar and is eating it up slowly.

[gigau]

I have found that unlike vanilla Vijyanagar doesn't always demolish the Bahmani Sultanate.
This is good. However in a game I'm playing the Bahmani Sultanate have 70k army.
It keeps declaring wars of aggresion on Vijyanagar and is eating it up slowly.

In my recent test games (in which Trin Tragula's India has made it's way into MEIOU ... thanks again, Trin), Bahmani Sultanate tends to become the superpower in India too (although i've made it so it can't convert provinces to Shi'a Islam, so keeps a wrong religion).

[Rajputs]

I have found out from this website that the ruler of Mewar during Babur's
invasion (Rana Sanga) took Malwa. http://horsesandswords.blogspot.co.u...campaigns.html

By the way, has the version of Meiou with the Oriental Mod come out.

[Trin Tragula]

I have found that unlike vanilla Vijyanagar doesn't always demolish the Bahmani Sultanate.
This is good. However in a game I'm playing the Bahmani Sultanate have 70k army.
It keeps declaring wars of aggresion on Vijyanagar and is eating it up slowly.

In my recent test games (in which Trin Tragula's India has made it's way into MEIOU ... thanks again, Trin), Bahmani Sultanate tends to become the superpower in India too (although i've made it so it can't convert provinces to Shi'a Islam, so keeps a wrong religion).

None of the provinces converting should be the case in this mod as well
I haven't ever seen provinces outside of Bengal converting to Islam in India thanks to the triggered modifiers for muslim sultanates.

The Bahmani vs Vijayanagar balance is quite delicate. In former versions VIJ used to overperform a lot (and I actually have this happening in my developer version again).
The balance of the Bahmani sultanate rests quite heavily on their specific inner tensions and modifiers. As legitimacy was too easy to get in the current version and this was something the mod was designed to make a problem for them that strengthened the Bahmanis.

In the new version legitimacy is harder to get in general and the ultimate result of the Bahmani inner conflicts has been redone so if they do fail (as the Bahmani state historically did) they'll actually split "peacefully" through regional governors simply ignoring the central power once it tried to strengthen it's grip too much rather than decend into civil war as was the case in the former version.

Something very similar did happen to VIJ as well but I haven't finnished working on that.

That said It's hard to decide on how to model these things without straightjacking the states. The seeds of Bahmani destruction was certainly there in 1399 already (it is a quite fascinating state) and the mod already has ways to stop it from happening that I'm quite happy with. But the way the split actually happened historically would nonetheless seem very frustrating to a player. That's why I opted for a civil war in the old version and that's why I'm a bit hesitant about the way it's going to work in the new version (even if I do offer plenty of warnings about where you're headed and allow the player to play on as one of the splinter states rather than the rump Bidar state if he or she wishes).

One thing to consider for the other mods (such as MEIOU) that use this mod:
I never got the Bahmanis or Vijayanagar to perform anywhere near right before I put hinduism in the muslim religion group. The standard EU3 AI hates heathens and will ally with it's religious kin against them at all costs unless the date for religious tolerance in the defines.txt has past. This messes with India in very basic ways. Often I'd end up with either an entirely muslim or entirely Hindu subcontinent before I changed the religion groups.
Religious conflict was certainly part of this period of Indian history but it was not at the foremost place in any of the involved parties minds. Vijayanagar allied and even intermarried with muslim countries. The surviving Deccani sultanates all came to incorporate powerful Hindu aristocracies. It could be argued that the Mughal empire itself would never have been possible without it's policy of integration with the Rajput dynasties and aristocratic class of northern India, etc.
Military and marital alliances were forged between muslim and hindu states all the time during this era. There were temples in Muslim capitals and mosques in Hindu capitals, etc. This does not mean they were all modern tolerant societies but it does mean that politics came before religious conviction even for states that the historians of the early 20th century tried to paint out to be "bulwarks of the hindu faith" (Vijayanagara).
The AI sadly isn't able to take the pragmatical stance that most successful states in this region did unless we poke it in that direction quite heavily...
To be fair this pragmatism was also not without it's consequences. The decline of the Mughal empire and Aurangzebs intollerant reversal of policies may seem perplexing to a modern observer if one doesn't take into account the internal and external pressure due to the growing resentment among the muslims of the empire with the power given to the non muslim groups. Even earlier on, during Akbars reign there was an outright rebelion lead by the Ulema of his empire.

I have found out from this website that the ruler of Mewar during Babur's
invasion (Rana Sanga) took Malwa. http://horsesandswords.blogspot.co.u...campaigns.html

Yeah I like that blog. I've come across it several times during the making of this mod
Province history can always be made more detailed and the collapse of Malwa should probably be improved there. On the general ability of Mewar to repeat Rana Sanghas feats in the game: Malwa's position is quite precarious. It's failure as a state was as much due to inner tensions (they tried to build a Rajput-Muslim condominium but in the end the state just fell apart due to it, as also is touched upon in the blog) as outside pressure. Sure they've got potential but they also have lots of enemies in all directions and in my test games they often end up annexed by Rajputs and/or Gujarat.

[Rajputs]

You are correct in that Mewar is already powerful.
To be successful with it all you need to do is choose the correct
time to declare war and make peace quite quickly.

[Rajputs]

Will the disintegration of Malwa be changed in the next update?

[boies00]

I am on a small team trying to update Magna Mundi for DW, since the original team is no longer interested on working on it.

India has always been left alone in MM. If it's okay with you, we'd like to include your Minimal India Improvement mod and parts your Oriental mod in it.

[Trin Tragula]

Download updated to version 1.1
To play the new version _the old version must first be deleted_ as I've changed around the files some compared to the old version. It's not enough to simply overwrite the old version.


Changes:

• The new version features an improved map in Persia, Transoxiana, Tibet, Eastern Europe and Scandinavia. Political setup for the hordes now incorporates changes from birdboy2000's steppe mod.
• Cleaned up a lot of files (though others may remain) that I had originally created early on when I was a less experienced modder
• General bugfixing.
• Gameplay changes:
• Lots of missions added (though many more could be added).
• Lots of game balance and AI changes from Azerimod imported.
• An entirely new set of ideas introduced that now interact a lot more with the administrative efficiency system (lots of new tooltips have been introduced to help give a good overview of this). The new ideas all use new pictures as I haven't been able to replicate the style of the old ones and I dislike mixing them up. As in Azerimod all states now start with 3 ideas.

This update has mostly focused on getting the mod to work well with the new patch as well as introducing (and hopefully balancing) the new ideas. Apart from the map changes no further historical changes have been introduced so there's still lots of stuff to do in the future with Africa, India, East Asia, etc. Also as before the East India companies still aren't finished.
I've also incorporated parts of Azerimod but not all of it. Some more stuff will be adapted in the future but has been held up for this update.

Administrative efficiency modifiers are now colourcoded in the province overview and many tooltips have been updated to make sure the changes relating to it are as transparent as possible but as of now the Manual has not been updated. I will do this in the future but I hope the mod will be playable anyway until then due to the ingame helps.
Many of the new ideas (especially the government ones) have an effect on administrative efficiency now and their tooltips will reflect that.

A major priority has been to keep things balanced between the ideas and other changes and I'm very thankful for feedback on these as I'm sure there are many players better than I am at this game that may see more clearly what's balanced and what's not
Also feedback on the need/use of the ideas themselves is of course also welcome. Replacing all of them at once some of them may not yet be quite as final as they could be.

Lastly a big thanks to Sir Iain who helped me test and bughunt these changes and who made many useful suggestions himself

Download:


Oriental Mod for DV version 1.1
Oriental Mod for DV version 1.1 (for those that use the EU3 Spritepacks)

[Rabid]

Wow, this sounds fantastic, will check it out ASAP!

[James The 1st]

So basically, we can play the Azeri mod stuff with the historical 1399 start? I will definitely try when I get time.

[Trin Tragula]

Well that's what I started with but then I couldn't resist doing some stuff on my own with it (like using the event-driven AI idea choices to create a new set of ideas for instance, and I'm still using province level administrative efficiency ratings rather than have the global value used in Azerimod and I've kept my own stuff for population growth).
There's also lots of stuff I haven't yet implemented or even decided on if to implement (i've implemented the army changes and some ai changes and various things that where so interdependent that they had to be included from The start but major azeri features are still left out). On top of that we have the DW beta patch with it's manpower changes that also changes the balance of the game a lot.
So it's not quite the same thing, hopefully I haven't entirely wrecked Wiz' carefully balanced mechanics though