Magna Mundi Developer's Diary #2 - THE MAP: LOOKING BACK FIVE CENTURIES

[ubik]

I guess the main task is to get rid of all the lakes created by dams, do something about the netherlands and the ijsselmeer (which has a large portion of land which has been won within the last couple of hundred years, depicted in green here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ijsselmeer )/New Orleans/ ... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reclamation), do something about islands like krakatau, and add some forests.
But otherwise, great work!

Hey Daniel, nice to see you here!


Holland is already fixed. As for the rest, Andrés is looking at it.

[Keanon]

I'm sorry if it's already been mentioned, but Jutland in Denmark possibly contains a minor error, Vendsyssel-Thy was not an island in the period covered by the game. It didn't go all the way through from about the 12th-13th century till the 19th century. I think it was in the outmost west that it was connected. I'm not an expert at this, but I've heard and read this multiple places, I tried looking around a bit on google but couldn't find any pictures or good explanations, but with your greater historical know-how you can look it up if you want more accuracy Eitherway it looks fantastic and I can't wait to play this game.

[RhoDaZZ]

I'm sorry if it's already been mentioned, but Jutland in Denmark possibly contains a minor error, Vendsyssel-Thy was not an island in the period covered by the game. It didn't go all the way through from about the 12th-13th century till the 19th century. I think it was in the outmost west that it was connected. I'm not an expert at this, but I've heard and read this multiple places, I tried looking around a bit on google but couldn't find any pictures or good explanations, but with your greater historical know-how you can look it up if you want more accuracy Eitherway it looks fantastic and I can't wait to play this game.

I agree (as said before) and have had the same difficulty in finding information about this as you. Historical erosion and flooding is probably not the thing geographers deal in the most these days though, but I'll try and see if my geography teacher knows of any literature on the subject.

[daboese]

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...Vendsyssel-Thy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Jutlandic_Island

Here are the references, although I think it is not as important.
In 1634, there was also a big flooding in northern Germany, though I think we are also quite picky when mentioning those things:
http://www.geschichte-s-h.de/vonabisz/sturmflut.htm
Holland, Krakatau, and the big land reclamations were far more important- as well as the changes before 1400.

[Laskaris]

A very beautiful map indeed. I love how much work you put into accurately modelling the various terrain and vegetation types, despite the fact that, strictly speaking, it would not have been necessary for a grand strategy game like this. That is what I call perfectionism and loving attention to detail.

[slepire]

I can say for certain that Lake Volta, which can be seen on the western Africa map, is a man-made lake that was completed in 1965. It's the largest man-made lake in the world by surface area, and fourth largest by water volume.

*Edit: That said, the map is absolutely gorgeous.

[Inarius]

Very impressive !
Nevertheless, a small mistake in France !
I see that in the map of France, you've drawn forest in the South-west of France (Which is called forest of "Landes"). But, it used to be mainly a swamp before 19th century (Napoleon III). I hope you will fix this !

[Boris ze Spider]

Oh, my, god.

[Gytis]

Who "owns" the map? Can Paradox, as a publisher, use it in some of its upcoming games, like Crusader Kings II?

[Magean]

Will the Baltic Sea be frozen and unnavigable in winter ? This has probably been already answered, but I'm too lazy to search.

[renegade765]

Looks Amazing!!!

[Dutchemperor]

I guess the main task is to get rid of all the lakes created by dams, do something about the netherlands and the ijsselmeer (which has a large portion of land which has been won within the last couple of hundred years, depicted in green here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ijsselmeer )/

in the 16th century even more land was water. i will try to find a pic of it on the internet. Otherwise i will take a picture from an history atlas i have. Even my city is on that map you posted.

[Dutchemperor]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=P0FZ7KXN

here it is, some pictures. Too big for imageshack. I Hope you can do something with it.

[RhoDaZZ]

Something I've been thinking for a long time playing both EUIII with MM and other mods, the area of Venezia shouldn't be one big island. Only the city was on an island (this is important for gameplay of course), but aesthetically it should look more like the lagoon it is rather than one big island

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venetian_Lagoon
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._42.33265N.jpg
http://www.tourleadervenice.com/wp-c..._of_Veneto.png

[Laskaris]

We then used a Braun stereographic projection (a compromise between distortions in area, distance, shape, and direction) to put everything together so that you can have the best map ever.

Well, the "best" projection is always a matter of debate. Personally, I also like the good old equirectangular projection and even the Gall-Peters equal area projection (although not many people like Gall-Peters!). But I guess that your compromise is probably the best choice for what type of map you need in Magna Mundi.

I'm still waiting for a grand strategy game that represents the world as an actual globe rather than a flat rectangular map. Now THAT would be revolutionary!

[Hister]

I'm still waiting for a grand strategy game that represents the world as an actual globe rather than a flat rectangular map. Now THAT would be revolutionary!

Yep, my wishes exactly! No more projection hassles... Although I know of one game from Paradox which ahs this implemented it is not detailed enough for any proper immersion.

[Davisx3m]

I'm still waiting for a grand strategy game that represents the world as an actual globe rather than a flat rectangular map. Now THAT would be revolutionary!

Superpower 2?

[Laskaris]

Superpower 2?

Haven't tried that one out. The reviews are mixed - "good ideas brought down by bugs, crashes and a poor interface" seems to be the consensus.

Honestly, I find it amazing that most global strategy games still work with flat maps. In my view, it is simply a tabletop convention that has been carried over onto the PC. When you play a global strategy game on the table, like Risk, it makes sense to have a flat map - you can put it on the table, everyone can sit around it, look at it etc. Also, you can't package a globe as a tabletop game! However, these limitations do not apply to the PC. You could use a globe as a world map for a grand strategy game there, all you would need is an interface that is well designed and intuitive and allows the player to quickly get to the point he wants to look at.

Anyway, put that on my wishlist for Magna Mundi 2 (and Civilization VI).

[Hister]

Exactly Laskaris! +REP or that statement. Although it is awfully logical sometimes one needs a cling in his had to realize it I'm sure Magna Mundi 2 will make one further step in evolution.

[Arbus]

The only games where I've seen globe maps: x-com ufo defense, civilization iv and superpower 2. And I don't particularly like globe maps, I find it harder to move around, maybe because there never was one well designed. So far I think the flat map fits these games better, not only because it looks like a board game, but it gives you the feel of the general moving chess pieces across the hand drawn map on his table. When I think about the world map, I still think in flat terms, I don't picture the earth swirling around the universe, so I guess flat maps are also more intuitive. Besides calculating travel distances in scandinavia, flat maps work just fine.