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Musthavename

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May 13, 2009
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This is something i've been wondering for a while. I can understand a lack of demanding Technologies or trading Technologies as it'd lead to gamey exploits, but I don't understand why a Technology has a static cost, only affected by which research mode you favour, throughout the entire 100 years.

The problem is if your country starts with low literacy, or is an unciv, whatever, you'll never be level with countries like the US or the European powerhouses by endgame. And maybe you shouldn't be level, but as someone like Japan you should be able to get pretty close. What i'm suggesting, and I imagine it's been suggested already, is that tech costs reduce somehow over time.

For example, you could have a tech cost 5% less research points (all these modifiers would be multiplicative) for every 10 years after it becomes available, or have it so the number of people who have researched it reduces the cost for everyone else, simulating that technology would spread by itself. You would bar Uncivs from these discounts ensuring that they stay backwards until Westernisation, or you could link these discounts to a Literacy modifier. This would mean someone like Japan with a decent literacy rate could Westernise early and actually be level with most of the main powers by game end. Instead a player currently has to sacrifice techs elsewhere in order to maintain a similar level of military or industrial power.

This would also mean that you could alternate between beelining for certain techs, and then picking up low cheap techs. I find I pretty much ignore the Commerce tree bar the lowest 5 techs, and a couple of cheap tax efficiency ones. The reason is it simply doesn't make sense to invest in a 7200 RP Commerce tech when I could spend double those points getting Electricity, which is far more worthwhile. The other tech I always find myself neglecting is every single Naval tech bar the Steamer line and the Naval Base line, and even down those it's only worth advancing up to the point where you can get dreadnoughts or have enough naval range to colonise what you want. If these techs were down to only say 2000-3000 RPs by endgame, they'd be worth picking up! That, and it comes across as daft that a nation can have Combustion Engines, Tanks, Aeroplanes, Electricity, yet not have developed the concept of a basic Stock Exchange.

You'd also have a situation where any edge you gain in tech doesn't last that long, as everyone around you would get bonuses to catch up on it, which makes sense. If you developed Tanks, it doesn't make sense that it takes everyone else the same amount of effort to construct them when they've been around for 20 years and you've had them trounce your armies badly.

Thoughts?
 
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I find it odd to begin with that every country has to research everuthing from scratch to begin with. It's like everyone has to have a Bell, Edison, Daimler or a Ford. An then you go on an research Patents. Like....for what?!?! doesn't eveyoane re-invent things?
If i invent the light bulb, shouldn't i get money from everyone that manufactures my invention? And that should be all. I invent it, everyone is free to use it as long as they have the money for it. And in i implement in my school system the theory of Malthus for example, shouldn't the brits get prestige, as averyone hears of the guy?
And another example, in chronological order:
# 1843 – Charles Goodyear announces vulcanization
# 1846 – Robert William Thomson invents and patents the pneumatic tire
# 1880s – John Boyd Dunlop begins taping pneumatic tires to bicycle wheels
# 1888 – First commercial pneumatic bicycle tire produced by Dunlop
# 1889 – Dunlop patents the pneumatic tire in the UK
# 1889 – Adolphe Clément sees a Dunlop pneumatic tyre in London and acquires the French manufacturing rights for 50,000 francs
# 1890 – Dunlop, and William Harvey Du Cros begin production of pneumatic tires in Ireland; thickened beads, wire retainers, and shaped rims make taping tires to rims unnecessary.
# 1890 – Bartlett Clincher rim introduced
# 1891 – Dunlop's patent invalidated in favor of Thomson’s
# 1891 – The Michelin brothers patent a removable pneumatic tyre, used by Charles Terront to win the world's first long distance cycle race, Paris–Brest–Paris.

So...when mr Benz put the tyres on his car, did he re-invent vulcanization, or just bouhgt the damn tyre?

Is the real-life system so flawed that it has no place in the game? Or is it to hard to implement?
 
Research points increases exponentially, so older techs become a lot faster to research later on. Since tech availability is time based, it limits how far a tech leader can research ahead. So a nation that starts more backwards can actually catch up in quite a few areas, just not all of them. I don't think it's reasonable for an unciv to catchup in all 5 branches of all 5 technology types, but in my experience it's usually not necessary to research everything anyway.
 
RP gain is hardly exponential. Its pretty linear across the 100 years, which is reinforced by the fact that techs become progressivly more expensive in a directly linear fashion aswell. And really, the difference is minimal. A late comer can spam the +Research Points and Plurality techs, but does that make up for the time lost early on? That's the point i'm trying to make. You could power through the Military techs, but you'd be way behind industrially, or vice versa. I'm not saying people would be level endgame, i'm saying they should be able to catch up reasonable across the board, which some of the things I suggested would correct.

Also, I do believe that if I were to play as an Unciv, focus on educating my populace as much as possible, I should be rewarded by being remotely competetive. After all, this is an alternate history sandbox game. That, and my knowledge of history is pretty general, but wasn't Japan not that far behind tech-wise come 1936? If anything, there's historical reasoning for implementing these changes.

The other thing these changes would do is make techs more spread out across the five trees, which is a lot more sensible than the current mode where Commerce gets completely forsaken over Industry. It simply makes little to no sense that i've barely developed any financial institutions or policies whatsoever, yet I can have the most advanced technology in the world.
 
The US started this era a relative backwater technologically. Sure, they weren't down there with the marginal nations, but they were behind England, France and Germany. Furthermore they had middling literacy and few clerks or clergy. But by 1936, they were undoubtedly one of the technological leaders of the world. They didn't do it by jacking up the number of clerks and clergy by the 1840's, they did it by making gradual improvements and getting up to speed by the 1870's and 1880's. By the time they were researching as fast as everyone else, they'd already caught up with everyone else. That clearly speaks to a catch up effect.
 
I agree with this suggestion. Too often do I completely neglect business and naval technologies (and almost completely cultural tech), in order to get a modern army and industry.
There should really be some way of immediately jumping to the most modern technology, like Japan or Germany did, or how China did (Chinas industrialisation is outside of the timeline but my point still stands).
 
There are about 200 nations in the game, so maybe a 0.33% reduction in the cost of a tech for each nation that has researched it? That would mean if you were the last nation to research it, it would be 66% less expensive. Is that too small a bonus? Maybe a 1% reduction per nation, capped at 75%?
 
I think an easier way on the game engine would be do to it relative to the number of Great Powers who've researched it. Say check every 6 months and update tech costs accordingly. I think a combination of that and say discounts at 10,20 and 30 years after it becomes originally available would work nicely.