Dev Diary 2 - Barons and Settlements

[Kolonel]

Settlements can be improved with various buildings, provinces cannot. Your demesne size is counted by Settlement, not province, etc.

Oh! Very nice indeed.

Very curious to see how you will display this, both on the map and in the GUI. It will make for a radically different province screen (if such a thing still exists)...

[BonSequitur]

It would be nice to have separate abbeys/monasteries and churches, because that was actually an important internecine power struggle in the Catholic church of the era, but it's pretty nitpicky. I imagine that castles and churches also pretty much include the rural settlements that formed around them. And that a 'church' settlement necessarily means an independent diocese or archdiocese, not just a smaller church with a priest as would be found in virtually all cities and towns.

[Calgacus]

This sounds good!

[Ezzezze]

What about the level of micromanagement - won't all these baronies require more player attention? Well, the whole point of the feudal system is delegation, so the short answer is that for dukes and above; not much. Granted, the dynamic around cities and churches will require more attention, but of the right kind and infrequently. The existence of baronies will also make playing counts a lot more interesting.

What about kings with a considerable demesne (thinking about CK1 mechanics where a king could sometimes have a big demesne)? What kind of micro will those kings have to do?

[Doomdark]

What about kings with a considerable demesne (thinking about CK1 mechanics where a king could sometimes have a big demesne)? What kind of micro will those kings have to do?

Pretty much the same as in CK. If a king could have, say, 16 provinces in CK, that would be 16 settlements in CKII.

[Grosshaus]

If you are a duke or a king, will your counts be able to form new settlements as they please on their provinces?

[AlexanderPrimus]

The revelation that vassals can now hold court positions is also a pretty big deal.

If I understand correctly, this means I can make a Duke or a Count my Marshal then? Or perhaps a Bishop from one of those church settlements could be my chancellor? If so, that's way cool! Of course the negative aspect might be that if you have a rebellious or corrupt vassal in your council, he might embezzle from your treasury, commit fraud against you, etc. But that would also be cool.

Thanks very much for the Dev Diary!

[Doomdark]

If you are a duke or a king, will your counts be able to form new settlements as they please on their provinces?

Yes, if they can afford it.

[Väinö I]

Your demesne size is counted by Settlement, not province, etc.

So what exactly does this mean?

1) Characters who hold higher than baron level titles can also hold baron level titles. The demense limit restricts the amount of baron level titles that can be directly controlled. Eg. a king could hold extremely large demense geographically by choosing to hold only one baronal title per province.

2) Only barons directly control baronies and they must always be granted to them. The demense limit restricts the amount of barons you can have directly under you, without having to grant the province and associated baronies to count or duke. Eg. a king can with demense limit of 20 can hold 10 provinces with 2 baronies each or 4 provinces with 5 baronies each, but none of the baronies can be held by him personally.

[Doomdark]

So what exactly does this mean?

1) Characters who hold higher than baron level titles can also hold baron level titles. The demense limit restricts the amount of baron level titles that can be directly controlled. Eg. a king could hold extremely large demense geographically by choosing to hold only one baronal title per province.

2) Only barons directly control baronies and they must always be granted to them. The demense limit restricts the amount of barons you can have directly under you, without having to grant the province and associated baronies to count or duke. Eg. a king can with demense limit of 20 can hold 10 provinces with 2 baronies each or 4 provinces with 5 baronies each, but none of the baronies can be held by him personally.

No... All counts are also the baron of the province capital settlement. There is nothing preventing a character from holding several barony level titles himself: this is his demesne.

[TempestDK]

So what exactly does this mean?

1) Characters who hold higher than baron level titles can also hold baron level titles. The demense limit restricts the amount of baron level titles that can be directly controlled. Eg. a king could hold extremely large demense geographically by choosing to hold only one baronal title per province.

2) Only barons directly control baronies and they must always be granted to them. The demense limit restricts the amount of barons you can have directly under you, without having to grant the province and associated baronies to count or duke. Eg. a king can with demense limit of 20 can hold 10 provinces with 2 baronies each or 4 provinces with 5 baronies each, but none of the baronies can be held by him personally.

I would guess the second option. So if your royal province (that you are count of) holds 6 baronies, then you have 6 barons under your direct control in that province. Thus the king doesn't control the 6 baronies himself.

I hope that means that demesne limits will be a bit higher than previously ... would suck to be count of a province with 6 baronies, and only have a demesne limit of 1 *lol*

Edit: got Doom'ed .. and seems I was all wrong

[Von Hilficker]

Will there be either a hardcoded or softcoded maximum number of settlements per province? Of course I'm assuming that founding new ones will be sufficently expensive that in most situations it won't matter. Perhaps in the style of EU3 manufacturies getting more expensive per how many you have?

[Ben Music]

Well, if you appoint some Baron to also be your Chancellor, he will be a member of your court. Otherwise, he will stay at his castle and mind his own business.

Will this work on levels above Count? For example, as a Duke, would I be able to appoint a Count as my Chancellor, as well as Baron (from my demesne) my Marshal?

[Doomdark]

Will there be either a hardcoded or softcoded maximum number of settlements per province? Of course I'm assuming that founding new ones will be sufficently expensive that in most situations it won't matter. Perhaps in the style of EU3 manufacturies getting more expensive per how many you have?

Yes, many province will have a scripted upper limit below eight.

[Doomdark]

Will this work on levels above Count? For example, as a Duke, would I be able to appoint a Count as my Chancellor, as well as Baron (from my demesne) my Marshal?

Of course.

[Count of Reval]

If you are a duke or a king, will your counts be able to form new settlements as they please on their provinces?

Yes, if they can afford it.

Will AI character's traits influence the type of settlements and upgrades it prefers to choose?

[Doomdark]

Will AI character's traits influence the type of settlements and upgrades it prefers to choose?

I'll talk about traits and their impact somewhere down the road.

[Väinö I]

No... All counts are also the baron of the province capital settlement. There is nothing preventing a character from holding several barony level titles himself: this is his demesne.

Does this, in turn, mean that a ruler could hold a single baronial title in far off province? Eg. High King of Eire is also Baron of Pavia, but does not hold the count title of the same province, nor any other title in the province or even in whole Italy.

To give a non-Christian period analogue, the Genghisid rulers had appanages all over the Mongol realm. Jochid princes in modern Ukraine also had fiefs in China (often just single cities).

[Beleg32]

I love the idea, great improvement imo, can't wait till 2 December

[Captain Frakas]

Could modders add new kind of settlements into CK2 or is it hard-coded ?

The current list of settlements in CK2 is :
* "castle" mean villages or cities ruled by a secular prince.
* "church" mean cities ruled by a prince-bishop.
* "cities" mean free cities, ruled by a burgomaster.

In my opinion, this list lack just one last kind of settlement :
* abbey, (or monasteries) ruled by an abbot.

It would allow to represent the opposition between secular and regular religious orders in the medieval Christianity. While it would add a lot of flavour (and flavour is more important in CK than in any other paradox game) isn't that important, so I can understand if this distinction is not made into the vanilla game, but I think that modders community and players that like mods would appreciate if it can be modified into the game.