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@Hax
I have actually had 'difficult' times to setting up these units for Bosnia. Idea to give user full experience was to have battalions named correctly. I've decided that end of the was should be a reference not start. Reason for this is to have 505. Knight Buzim Brigade rather then TO Buzim, first sounding soooooo much better. In Bosnia there was a mess in units naming and some changed named 4 times.
example: TO xxxx -> X. motorised brigade -> X. mountain brigade -> XXX. mountain brigade.
Although it may be a-historic to have 505th in 1992 I felt that is right choice. Agree?

I tried to piece that together but ultimately this is impossible task. If you open up event/Bosnia.txt file you will find my research there. Feel free if you have time and resources to do further investigation...

I agree with you, we should not make stuff to much complicated. But maybe have an event when the war starts for one country to inform the player of this. That the units name are not correct with the time line, as we talked earlier an "educational event".

EDIT: Should we have the names of the units in English or in the native language? Knight Brigade or Viteska Brigada?
 
Initially I wanted to have actual brigade names (Pumas, Knights, ...). I've given up since only because it was making it hard to copy/paste in event editing :eek:o. I would happy to add this back at later point.

Don't worry about searching YUG OOB any more. I've got all details I need for it.

I am using local language for unit names and that should remain. Could you look at db/armynames.csv and db/unitnames.csv and complete missing countries?

Unitnames.csv:
Remember we have battalion sized units! This may not be an easy task because number of battalions per brigade varied. Worse offenders was RS... Some general rules:
CROATIA:
regiment (pukovnija): 3 btns
brigade: 4 btns
guards: 4 btns (+ 3/4 auxiliary btn)
BOSNIA:
mountain: 4 btns
motorised: 4 btns (but motorised was often only on paper)
light: 3 btns (this is how it is envisaged but many had 4btns)
RSK:
light: 3 btns
infantry: 4 btns
RS:
light: 3 btns
infantry: 4 btns but there were some with 7-8 btns (Zvornik and Visegrad if I can recall).

You are welcome to investigate this or get someone to find historic details (we may need some brigade names which did not exist in case player/ai create more brigades then there really were, e.g. 535 brigade ABiH). I've put info I have for RS and Bosnia are in their corresponding event files.
Other countries usually followed pattern but Bosnia and RS were flexible in that respect.

Armynames.csv is used to name a group of units. In DH this is usually Corps XX. This is very wrong in YW because we use battalions as basic unit. I thought we could use 'brigade' instead of 'corps' but this is also not working either. Our units are named as 'btn/bgde. xxx'. So when you select unit it would state e.g. '505. Buzimska brigada' but unit underneath would state '1/102 mtbr'.
I started naming every unit just 'bataljon ABiH' but that is also wrong when you group units... Any ideas?

Cheers,
H.
 
Initially I wanted to have actual brigade names (Pumas, Knights, ...). I've given up since only because it was making it hard to copy/paste in event editing :eek:o. I would happy to add this back at later point.

Don't worry about searching YUG OOB any more. I've got all details I need for it.

I am using local language for unit names and that should remain. Could you look at db/armynames.csv and db/unitnames.csv and complete missing countries?

Unitnames.csv:
Remember we have battalion sized units! This may not be an easy task because number of battalions per brigade varied. Worse offenders was RS... Some general rules:
CROATIA:
regiment (pukovnija): 3 btns
brigade: 4 btns
guards: 4 btns (+ 3/4 auxiliary btn)
BOSNIA:
mountain: 4 btns
motorised: 4 btns (but motorised was often only on paper)
light: 3 btns (this is how it is envisaged but many had 4btns)
RSK:
light: 3 btns
infantry: 4 btns
RS:
light: 3 btns
infantry: 4 btns but there were some with 7-8 btns (Zvornik and Visegrad if I can recall).

You are welcome to investigate this or get someone to find historic details (we may need some brigade names which did not exist in case player/ai create more brigades then there really were, e.g. 535 brigade ABiH). I've put info I have for RS and Bosnia are in their corresponding event files.
Other countries usually followed pattern but Bosnia and RS were flexible in that respect.

Armynames.csv is used to name a group of units. In DH this is usually Corps XX. This is very wrong in YW because we use battalions as basic unit. I thought we could use 'brigade' instead of 'corps' but this is also not working either. Our units are named as 'btn/bgde. xxx'. So when you select unit it would state e.g. '505. Buzimska brigada' but unit underneath would state '1/102 mtbr'.
I started naming every unit just 'bataljon ABiH' but that is also wrong when you group units... Any ideas?

Cheers,

H.

If you need random names for ABIH (Bosnian army), that's very easy to do, but Hogar's idea is also nice for e.g. "202 brigade ARBIH". If you need some more info about ARBIH's brigades, corps etc. just ask I can help, I know a lot about that. ;) :)
 
Airports for Bosnia is found and implemented into the game but I have got four questions:

1. Sarajevo airport. In the begining of the war it was taken by the Serbian army but was then handed to UN forces. Sarajevo was de jure encircled as no troops besides the UN could pass the airport. How shall we represent this? Currently the airport is located in Lukavica(Serb controlled) in our mod which is kind of wrong. And to put it in Novo Sarajevo/Hrasnica would also be wrong as well as in Ilidza(Serb controlled). Maybe ask Gukan if we can somehow create a new province just for the airport? What do you think, do you have any idea?

2. Bihac-Zeljava Air Base. Wasn't used in the wars as RSK destroyed the compound early. Is today on the Bosnian-Croatian border. How shall we represent this? I know we had some ideas of creating a hidden province, is it possible or would it just be annoying? Or maybe just split the airport in two provinces, Bihac and Plitvicke Jezera?

3. Mostar. On our map it's located in the province of Blagaj(Armija controlled) but the airport was taken by HVO and was the front between these two armies. The airport couldn't be used as it just was on the frontline. Continue being in Blagaj(as Armija had nearly no airforce) or try to create a new province?

4. Cazin. For most people an unknown airport including myself, I actually read about it for the first time today. Was constructed in 1992 by Armija with aid from Croatia. Supplies was flown here from Croatia across enemy territory(RSK). Fighter planes was here I think?! Is it possible via event to give a province an airport?

EDIT: Will respond to other posts and PM's tomorrow!
 
1. Sarajevo airport. In the begining of the war it was taken by the Serbian army but was then handed to UN forces. Sarajevo was de jure encircled as no troops besides the UN could pass the airport. How shall we represent this? Currently the airport is located in Lukavica(Serb controlled) in our mod which is kind of wrong. And to put it in Novo Sarajevo/Hrasnica would also be wrong as well as in Ilidza(Serb controlled). Maybe ask Gukan if we can somehow create a new province just for the airport? What do you think, do you have any idea?
Was airport used for it's intended game purpose, i.e. airforce? No. Can it be used in the game? Probably not because as long as frontlines are too close it will be under constant fire. I actually don't think RS has enough IC to repair anything. Should we check how this looks in the game before we take further steps?


2. Bihac-Zeljava Air Base. Wasn't used in the wars as RSK destroyed the compound early. Is today on the Bosnian-Croatian border. How shall we represent this? I know we had some ideas of creating a hidden province, is it possible or would it just be annoying? Or maybe just split the airport in two provinces, Bihac and Plitvicke Jezera?
I would leave it in Bihac. Reason is that only when JNA lost control over Bihac is that they destroyed the base. I would just script another into JNA withdrawal event to destroy the base if controlled by BOS.

3. Mostar. On our map it's located in the province of Blagaj(Armija controlled) but the airport was taken by HVO and was the front between these two armies. The airport couldn't be used as it just was on the frontline. Continue being in Blagaj(as Armija had nearly no airforce) or try to create a new province?
Same as Sarajevo. If it really remains on the frontline it won't be used for in-game purpose. I doubt that HB will have enough IC to repair anything...

4. Cazin. For most people an unknown airport including myself, I actually read about it for the first time today. Was constructed in 1992 by Armija with aid from Croatia. Supplies was flown here from Croatia across enemy territory(RSK). Fighter planes was here I think?! Is it possible via event to give a province an airport?
I only heard of specially protected helicopters (enforcements along lower areas to stop bullets). This can be handled by AI and instructed to build airport.

Bottom line, let's see how this works before we jump into making changes...
 
Was airport used for it's intended game purpose, i.e. airforce? No. Can it be used in the game? Probably not because as long as frontlines are too close it will be under constant fire. I actually don't think RS has enough IC to repair anything. Should we check how this looks in the game before we take further steps?

Alright I understand but would it theoretically be possible to create a new province just for the airport and then make NATO/UN its owner and have hidden connection with Srebrenica and other "safe areas". If this would take to much time and effort then we should skip my idea and just make the airport in Lukavica, but how could we simulate that it is useless without destroying it, just damaging it?

I would leave it in Bihac. Reason is that only when JNA lost control over Bihac is that they destroyed the base. I would just script another into JNA withdrawal event to destroy the base if controlled by BOS.

I see, maybe have an event which triggers when some provinces near Bihac are captured by Serb forces, let's say Kljuc, Drvar, Knin, Plitvicka Jezera and some more? Or just do it when Bihac and Cazin is not controlled by Serb forces?

Same as Sarajevo. If it really remains on the frontline it won't be used for in-game purpose. I doubt that HB will have enough IC to repair anything...

How is it possible to make an airport useless without removing airport level from it?

I only heard of specially protected helicopters (enforcements along lower areas to stop bullets). This can be handled by AI and instructed to build airport.

I found this yesterday:
Piloti Zrakoplovne baze Bihac u periodu od 1994/95 godine izvršili su 202 borbena leta i zracnim putem prebacili oko 500 tona ubojnih sredstava, repromaterijala za potrebe namjenske industrije, kao i materijale za potrebe bolnice.

Pilots of Bihac airbase in the period of 94/95 completed over 202 fighter missions and via the airway(to Croatia) transported circa 500 tones ammunition, equipment for weapon industry as well as medical equipment for the hospitals.

The airbase was completed in july 1992(took only one month to build). The track was 1300 meters long and 30m wide, which is a level 3 airport in our mod.

slika.php


I know that via event you can build navy port or at least add port level to a province so it should also work with adding an airport via event and remove some oil and money for that.

P.S. I also noticed that Gorazde has a "hidden connection" with Pale. Could you please change this to Sarajevo or maybe Tarcin. Is it possible to get supplies via "hidden connection"?
 
I see, maybe have an event which triggers when some provinces near Bihac are captured by Serb forces, let's say Kljuc, Drvar, Knin, Plitvicka Jezera and some more? Or just do it when Bihac and Cazin is not controlled by Serb forces?
Leading to Bosnian war JNA had to officially withdraw from Bosnia. At that point they blew up the place.
We could have a event chain which JNA we could get JNA option to destory the base, Bosnians to siege and take the base, JNA to withdraw from base, etc... Look at the barracks.txt events.


How is it possible to make an airport useless without removing airport level from it?
Fighting in the province is lowering infra and damaging all buildings in the province. After that player/ai need to invest into rebuilding it.


Pilots of Bihac airbase in the period of 94/95 completed over 202 fighter missions and via the airway(to Croatia) transported circa 500 tones ammunition, equipment for weapon industry as well as medical equipment for the hospitals.

The airbase was completed in july 1992(took only one month to build). The track was 1300 meters long and 30m wide, which is a level 3 airport in our mod.
maybe you missed my point. There were no MIG's taking off from there. Helicopters used this place for transport and I guess some combat missions. There is another thing. We have impassable link Sarajevo-Bihac which means that airport as it was used in the war (supply) is not needed in the game. You would only waste resource to build because for the gaming purpose the airport would be useless.

I know that via event you can build navy port or at least add port level to a province so it should also work with adding an airport via event and remove some oil and money for that.
I am not at all against an event that will introduce balance. If that is required for Cazin we'll add it. I am only thinking maybe a Bosnian player would like an airport at Visoko/Zenica region (heartland) if airforce becomes available to him. So, airport building option will be in the game. I can already see you building secretly airport there.

P.S. I also noticed that Gorazde has a "hidden connection" with Pale. Could you please change this to Sarajevo or maybe Tarcin. Is it possible to get supplies via "hidden connection"?
Oops. Fixed.
 
Leading to Bosnian war JNA had to officially withdraw from Bosnia. At that point they blew up the place.
We could have a event chain which JNA we could get JNA option to destory the base, Bosnians to siege and take the base, JNA to withdraw from base, etc... Look at the barracks.txt events.

Yes I agree that there should be various outcomes and the one with most chance of happening should be of blowing up the whole base. But my question was more where it should be located as most of the base was in Croatia that's why it feels strange to have it in Bihac.

Fighting in the province is lowering infra and damaging all buildings in the province. After that player/ai need to invest into rebuilding it.

But does the AI really need to spend much resources on repairing a damaged airport? I haven't played Arma or DH for a while but I remember that the damaged airport automatically repaired itself, didn't know that resources was consumed when doing that. What kind of resource and how much?

maybe you missed my point. There were no MIG's taking off from there. Helicopters used this place for transport and I guess some combat missions. There is another thing. We have impassable link Sarajevo-Bihac which means that airport as it was used in the war (supply) is not needed in the game. You would only waste resource to build because for the gaming purpose the airport would be useless.

Yes but the Bihac pocket got supplies from Croatia and not from the Sarajevo area that is why I think this airport should more symbolize how the encircled area got supplies. The airport should be created from event(yes or no) and not cost so much, also Croatia should have a event(help or no) if they want to aid the building of it.

I am not at all against an event that will introduce balance. If that is required for Cazin we'll add it. I am only thinking maybe a Bosnian player would like an airport at Visoko/Zenica region (heartland) if airforce becomes available to him. So, airport building option will be in the game. I can already see you building secretly airport there.

I fully agree!

Oops. Fixed.

Thanks!
 
...where it should be located as most of the base was in Croatia that's why it feels strange to have it in Bihac.
I think only runaways are in Croatia. Rest of the airport is in Bosnia. I guess that makes is Bihac. If you leave it in Plitvice we will hanf over RSK airport they shouldn't have.



But does the AI really need to spend much resources on repairing a damaged airport? I haven't played Arma or DH for a while but I remember that the damaged airport automatically repaired itself, didn't know that resources was consumed when doing that. What kind of resource and how much?
I'll need to check that. You have undermined my confidence. it was a while for me to since I've paid any attention to it.


Yes but the Bihac pocket got supplies from Croatia and not from the Sarajevo area that is why I think this airport should more symbolize how the encircled area got supplies. The airport should be created from event(yes or no) and not cost so much, also Croatia should have a event(help or no) if they want to aid the building of it.
No problem. I am only saying that in-game terms this means nothing. Player will only waste resource as supplies come via invisible route. :)
 
I think only runaways are in Croatia. Rest of the airport is in Bosnia. I guess that makes is Bihac. If you leave it in Plitvice we will hanf over RSK airport they shouldn't have.

Okay so the airport will be in Bihac and if JNA/Serb forces doesn't control this province at a certain date then JNA should get an event to destroy the whole base. And as you said maybe have an event for ARBiH to try overwhelm the base but with low percentage to succeed.

I'll need to check that. You have undermined my confidence. it was a while for me to since I've paid any attention to it.

Yeah please check that as I'm sure it doesn't take any resources to repair an airport, at least it was so I think in Arma but I don't know how it looks in DH.

No problem. I am only saying that in-game terms this means nothing. Player will only waste resource as supplies come via invisible route. :)

Yes but still just to show the player some historical facts this airport should exist but I know it won't be used for anything besides maybe having some lighter helicopters(if those exists in our mod) located there. The waste of resources for Bosnia won't be large as Croatia aided(they should also get an event if they want to support the building of this airport).

Okay good then we have solved how we will do with the airports located in Bosnia. I have completed writing all Serbian airports above level 1, will try tomorrow or the day after to write down also all the level 1 airports that exist(even if they are currently deactivated in the mod) in Serbia.
 
Here is the updates Bosnian leaders file, as requested by Hax, now including real stats. You may ask yourself (when you open to see skills and traits) is why are these skills so high? Well during the war skillfull people liket these were a key factor in defense, without these the war would have definitely been going in a totally different way. ;)

Updated file: bosnia.csv

Cheers.

:cool:
 
Skill of 3 is not too high but we need to make sure this is exception, rather then a rule. I think you did OK.
I was hoping you can add more leaders if you are working on this. 168 is not enough. We need some 250+ at last. If you can get pictures that is bonus.
 
Skill of 3 is not too high but we need to make sure this is exception, rather then a rule. I think you did OK.
I was hoping you can add more leaders if you are working on this. 168 is not enough. We need some 250+ at last. If you can get pictures that is bonus.
Hahhaha I just added two more in this version I can make another 100, also I can get pictures for some of these. ;)

Cheers. :cool:
 
Here is the updates Bosnian leaders file, as requested by Hax, now including real stats. You may ask yourself (when you open to see skills and traits) is why are these skills so high? Well during the war skillfull people liket these were a key factor in defense, without these the war would have definitely been going in a totally different way. ;)

Updated file: bosnia.csv

Cheers.

:cool:

Cool! Thanks mate!

Skill of 3 is not too high but we need to make sure this is exception, rather then a rule. I think you did OK.
I was hoping you can add more leaders if you are working on this. 168 is not enough. We need some 250+ at last. If you can get pictures that is bonus.

Should we always prioritize coloured pictures over black and whites? I saw that some Bosnian military leaders has black&white pictures even if I got those same in colour. I thought there was military leaders pictures on the Arma versions or was it never implemented? Nevermind I got some pictures saved on my computer.

Initially I wanted to have actual brigade names (Pumas, Knights, ...). I've given up since only because it was making it hard to copy/paste in event editing :eek:o. I would happy to add this back at later point.

Don't worry about searching YUG OOB any more. I've got all details I need for it.

I am using local language for unit names and that should remain. Could you look at db/armynames.csv and db/unitnames.csv and complete missing countries?

Unitnames.csv:
Remember we have battalion sized units! This may not be an easy task because number of battalions per brigade varied. Worse offenders was RS... Some general rules:
CROATIA:
regiment (pukovnija): 3 btns
brigade: 4 btns
guards: 4 btns (+ 3/4 auxiliary btn)
BOSNIA:
mountain: 4 btns
motorised: 4 btns (but motorised was often only on paper)
light: 3 btns (this is how it is envisaged but many had 4btns)
RSK:
light: 3 btns
infantry: 4 btns
RS:
light: 3 btns
infantry: 4 btns but there were some with 7-8 btns (Zvornik and Visegrad if I can recall).

Sure I will do that but please answer on my last question in this post first.

You are welcome to investigate this or get someone to find historic details (we may need some brigade names which did not exist in case player/ai create more brigades then there really were, e.g. 535 brigade ABiH). I've put info I have for RS and Bosnia are in their corresponding event files.
Other countries usually followed pattern but Bosnia and RS were flexible in that respect.

Okay, me and TheFreak_97 can do this later.

Armynames.csv is used to name a group of units. In DH this is usually Corps XX. This is very wrong in YW because we use battalions as basic unit. I thought we could use 'brigade' instead of 'corps' but this is also not working either. Our units are named as 'btn/bgde. xxx'. So when you select unit it would state e.g. '505. Buzimska brigada' but unit underneath would state '1/102 mtbr'.
I started naming every unit just 'bataljon ABiH' but that is also wrong when you group units... Any ideas?

But why can't it be bataljon, could you please explain this. A brigade consisted normally just as you have written up to 3-4 battalions. In the case of 505. buzimska in 1994 it was grouped as you surely has seen like this:

1.Viteški Motorizovani Bataljon
2.Viteški Jurišni Motorizovani Bataljon
3.Viteški Motorizovani Bataljon
4.Viteški Bataljon
ČSN "Hamza"
IDV "Gazija"
IDV "Tajfun"
MAD

4 battalions and some smaller "elite units" so why would it not be correct to name the sub-units into battalions? Or is it maybe because the player is building his own units and the chance they get located to the historical place is low?
 
Should we always prioritize coloured pictures over black and whites? I saw that some Bosnian military leaders has black&white pictures even if I got those same in colour. I thought there was military leaders pictures on the Arma versions or was it never implemented? Nevermind I got some pictures saved on my computer.
Personally I wanted to have uniformity. Since I couldn't fine colour pics I've decided to use b/w for leaders and coloured pics for ministers. You can do what you like...



But why can't it be bataljon, could you please explain this. A brigade consisted normally just as you have written up to 3-4 battalions. In the case of 505. buzimska in 1994 it was grouped as you surely has seen like this:

1.Viteški Motorizovani Bataljon
2.Viteški Jurišni Motorizovani Bataljon
3.Viteški Motorizovani Bataljon
4.Viteški Bataljon
ČSN "Hamza"
IDV "Gazija"
IDV "Tajfun"
MAD

4 battalions and some smaller "elite units" so why would it not be correct to name the sub-units into battalions? Or is it maybe because the player is building his own units and the chance they get located to the historical place is low?
It is how game works unfortunately. HoI3 is lot better in that respect. Due to game mechanics we opted for battalions instead of brigades. What is DH's division it is YW's battalion. Think about 5th Corps in Bihac. It had about 12-15 brigades. With so few units in the game it wouldn't be able to create circular front.

Once we name battalion 1/505 there is nothing stopping AI/player to group units anyway it suits them. I've seen a brigade made of 1/505+2/102+1/333.
We can name basic units (division in DH/battalions in YW) in file called unitnames.csv and groups of units in file called armynames.csv

OPTION 1:
Unambiguous name for battalion but correct name for group of units. Hence we could have:
infantry battalion+infantry battalion+artillery rgmt+eng rgmt = 505. brigade

In this case every Militia in unitnames is called 'pjesadijski/pesadinski/../ depending on country. Every artillery unit is just called artillery regiment and so on. In that case when you group then you can get our famous 505th Buzim and 6th Sana etc...

PROBLEMS:
- AI will put a lot of single battalions on the map. It looks weird to have so many single battalion brigades
- Armoured and other specialised units will not exist in the game as Armyname is randomly assigned to a single or group of units.
- Imagine a famous 1st proletarian mechanised made of militia+militia+garisson... AI will do anything

OPTION2:
Actual battalion names such as '1/505. bbr' or '1/1. pmbr' which then matches the unit icon and unambiguous for group of units.
PROBLEMS:
- Grouping unts we should get brigade but looks wrong to use 'brigade' when make up below is mixed (1/101+3/444+2/501).
- I began to call these all just 'infantry battalion'/'armoured battalion'/etc in the army names. Not very imaginative, I must agree.

Neither option will ever give you historical unit layout but DH doesn't have it either. Maybe there is a better option which I just haven't though of yet.
That will happen when we move to HoI4 ;).

maybe with some imagination we can overcome this problem. Did any of you guys play campaign as Croat/Yug in the game so far? Have a look at what Ai does and see if you can do something about it.
 
Still doing the 100 military leaders that i'm gonna post soon (for Bosnia), Also important info event for Bosnia:
1992 Yugoslav People's Army column incident in Sarajevo
Code:
 #############################################
###### Dobrovoljacka clash!
#############################################
event = {
   id = 1339
   random = no

   tag = { CRO SER BOS YUG SLV U03 U04 U06 U08 } 
   trigger = { ai = no }    
   persistent = yes

   date = { day = 3 month = may year = 1992 }
   offset = 1 
   deathdate = { day = 13 month = may year = 1992 }

   name = "1992 Yugoslav People's Army column incident in Sarajevo"
   desc = "The 1992 Yugoslav People's Army column incident in Sarajevo occurred on 3 May 1992 in Dobrovoljacka Street, Sarajevo, when members of the Army of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina (ARBiH) attacked a convoy of Yugoslav People's Army (JNA) troops that were exiting the city of Sarajevo according to the withdrawal agreement."
   picture = "dobrovoljacka_clash."

   action_a = {
      name = "Tense times..." 
     }

You should include this, it's an very important event just at the start of the war. ;)

Cheers :cool:
 
Great! :) Please do one also for the Tuzla clash. Do we maybe have more of these clashes in Bosnia and in the other republics?
Yea I have some more clashes, I will do them. :)