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Actually the Communist China setup at the start is right on the money and only includes the three provinces they always had in vanilla. The reason it shows 4 in your map is that your shot is taken in March, not Jan 1, 1936. It is normal for the Commies to pluck off a province or so, until the Xian incident fires. Definitely Shanxi, not Japan should have Xining and Huahaote. I'd say give the 6 far southeastern provinces of Shanxi to Nationalist China, give the 3 provinces to Yunnan indicated (Sichuan warlords were not 100% under control yet - only became fully under Nationalist China jurisdiction when Liu Xiang sacrificed his life to the Japanese) and the one Nationalist China province you indicated should be changed from Nationalist China to Xibei San Ma. Xinjiang should be IMO left alone. Xinjiang was indeed contested until about April 1937 but should stay as is until the event support is written.

The rest of Shanxi is something I'd like to have more debate on before changing. The Japanese should normally be able to chew their way through the northern region and keeping it as Shanxi is a good way to accomplish this.
Whatever we do I'd like this to still be possible:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-Guangxi-Clique-Attempt-at-Chinese-Domination

Hadn't noticed the date. On maps of the Long March, I don't think I've seen the communists occupying much of Gansu, which the third province is. It's usually just the north of Shaanxi, which judging by the screenshot is just those two provinces I mentioned. Then again it's not close up so I'll refrain from comment on specific provinces. As I said before I'd simulate Shanxi's inaction to take down Com China by having them at peace. Perhaps even give Shanxi, Xian to encapulate CHC. The Xian was in Xian because Chiang flew there to investigate why Shanxi wasn't taking care of Com China. Perhaps have more event. If Shanxi doesn't declare war, a decision has Chiang flying to Xian. There he can choose between side with the commies or to bully Shanxi in declaring war. Then Shanxi gets the event to be bullied or kidnap Chiang.

I'll agree with Shanxi getting Northern China for the time being. Since there's no Shandong warlord (as a country), to funnel the Japanese towards Nat China.

Sichuan could be handled by event. It's just that I'd keep Chonqing as Nationalist, as most events are built around Chonqing as a second capital. Don't want to risk the events not working due to one event not firing.
 
Xian was in Xian was probably a misprint. CaptRobau seems to be an intelligent fellow. The three provinces in question are all west of Chongqing and can safely remain in Yunnan hands. Possibly they could be ceded to CHI when/if the capital relocates to Chongqing. The ideas about redrawing Shanxi are worth further review. If they are redrawn as CaptRobau suggests, CHI should no longer have military access to CSX, and CHC-CHI should not start 1936 in a war. They should go to war only if the Xian incident fires on the historical date (Dec 12 1936) and CHI chooses "arrest them all as traitors". Perhaps Guangxi Clique, Yunnan, and Shanxi can DOW China if this option is taken. One of the major reasons for Mao's survival during the Long March was that the warlords actually protected him, because they were fearful that if Chiang succeeded in eliminating the Communists, they would be the next to go.

Another possibility is to have an event (I can look up the exact date) whereby Zhang Guotao makes his foray westward into an ambush at the hands of Xibei San Ma. This can cost Com China half its forces. They get them back once the CHI-CHC United Front is agreed on (New Fourth Army and Eighth Route Army were authorized and Communist China was authorized to recruit all over China)

I'm also changing the dates of availability for Guotao as a general to 1931-37. In real life he was purged in 1937 and defected to the Nationalists in 1938. I'm changing his ideology also so he only becomes head of state if Japan puppets Com China.
 
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One of the major reasons for Mao's survival during the Long March was that the warlords actually protected him, because they were fearful that if Chiang succeeded in eliminating the Communists, they would be the next to go.
This should be part of an event/decision for the mentioned warlords and would lead to an ahistorical situation if they dont protect the the Commies.
 
After the war will there be a tag/event for the possible formation of a the People's Republic of Korea being allowed to hold on to a unified Korea (provisional government that the US forcibly disbanded) under Yuh Woon-Hyung? Sorry about asking about something that is well past 1936 but I didn't want to make an entire new thread for something that is more or less on topic here.
 
Good point about Yeo Un Hyeong. He was actually a left-wing SOUTH Korean leader, so a unified Korea under him would actually be a communist SOUTH Korea. He's actually (correctly) in the South Korea files. He was actually installed by the departing Japanese, but neither the US nor the Soviets wanted him.

Actually it's going to take a while to get all the things implemented. The first step is getting all the leader and minister files together. For example, I've gotten a list of about 100 credible Guangxi Clique generals that I'm going through now.
 
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I think he'd fit in much better as a Left Wing Radical than a Communist. He was accused of being a communist and was one for much of his life, but by the time Korea was freed he was more of a left of centre socialist; no?
 
He's in the files as a left wing radical, but this means that if for any reason the South Korean government goes Communist or Social Democrat he would be the leader. I believe Paradox made the right call on that one. Likewise North Korea has social democratic leaders who are sometimes released by Germany in actual gameplay, if the USA has already released South Korea.
 
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I believe this is of general interest, not just for Darkest Hour fans, so I'll post the link here to improved Nationalist China and warlords generals:
http://www.mediafire.com/?8kzzybqva1gvffx
Here's the Shanxi area setup I'll recommend to the team
real_shanxi36.png

explanation:
Rehe and Chahar provinces were ceded to Japan under agreements signed under duress by Chiang Kai Shek. East Hebei was originally designated as a demilitarized zone but Japan installed a pro-Japanese puppet state in 1935. The rest of Hebei was nominally under Chinese control but Japan forced the resignation of the governor, and forced the evacuation of some Chinese armies, so it was an area that China did not have true sovereignty. Japan tried to expand into Suiyuan in 1936 but was successfully repulsed.
Shaanxi province (the one neighboring Shanxi to the west) was the province in which the northern half was the communist zone. It turns out that the KMT-appointed governor of Shaanxi (1933-37) was a secret communist by the name of Shao Lizi, who revealed his true identity in 1949. Mao knew exactly where he was going!
Shao Lizi (1881-1967)was born in Shaoxing, Zhejiang province. He went to study journalism in Japan in 1916.
He joined the Chinese Revolutionary League in 1908 and joined Marxism Research Society in 1920. And he
joined Chinese Communist Party with especial identity in 1921. He became the president of Shanghai University
and then was appointed as the political section director of Huangpu States Military Academy. He went to study at
Sun Yat-sen University in Moscow. After returning to China in 1927, he became secretary-general of the National
Revolutionary Army Headquarters, commissary of The Central Politics Conference, chairman of Gansu province,
chairman of Shanxi province, director of central propaganda Committee one after another. In 1939, he became
the cochairman of International Anti-aggression Coalition China branch, secretary-general of committees for
diplomacy and warfare. He was appointed ambassador to Soviet Union in 1940. After the War of Resistance
against Japan, he attended the peace negotiations in Chongqing as the representative of Kuomintang. And he
also attended the peace talks in 1949 and remained in Peking thereafter. Meanwhile, he telegraphed the Nanjing
National Government and announced his breakaway from it. After the foundation of People's Republic of China,
he became the commissary of the Government Administration Council in the Central People's Government,
member of Standing Committee of the National People's Congress, member of Standing Committee of the
Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC),member of Standing Committee of Revolutionary
Committee of the Chinese Kuomintang,vice-chairman of Soviet Union-China Friendship Association. He died in
December, 1967, Peking.
 
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So if the Xi'an event goes with the "arrest them all as traitors" choice, does that mean that Shanxi turns on the commies or does it just provide military access?
 
Some opinion:

Heibei should be a separate warlord or be CHI provinces. At least it should not be CSX's provinces.

The core problem of China theater is actually out of the map, it's the tech and production problem. China should be able to produce and maintaince a large army of about several times of the Japan however with very poor techs.

Also, something must be done to show the supply limit. The reason why the Japanese cannot break the stalement in China while being able to launch the Pacific War is that they cannot put more troops into China due to the supply limitation.

The CHC's effort during the war should also be represented. The main effect should not be attacking the Japanese troops, but disturbing the supply lines and preventing the Japanese from using the resource in the occupied areas easily. However, I don't think that this would be easily to mod due to the game system limitation...

In fact, if it is possible, I would suggest a special unit that will not consume supply and will not have lack of supply penalty in cored provinces to represent the guerrilla. They can recover strength slowly without consuming ICs while staying in cored areas. When destroyed, they will return to the capital with half or less strength.
 
Some opinion:

Heibei should be a separate warlord or be CHI provinces. At least it should not be CSX's provinces.

The core problem of China theater is actually out of the map, it's the tech and production problem. China should be able to produce and maintaince a large army of about several times of the Japan however with very poor techs.

Also, something must be done to show the supply limit. The reason why the Japanese cannot break the stalement in China while being able to launch the Pacific War is that they cannot put more troops into China due to the supply limitation.

The CHC's effort during the war should also be represented. The main effect should not be attacking the Japanese troops, but disturbing the supply lines and preventing the Japanese from using the resource in the occupied areas easily. However, I don't think that this would be easily to mod due to the game system limitation...

In fact, if it is possible, I would suggest a special unit that will not consume supply and will not have lack of supply penalty in cored provinces to represent the guerrilla. They can recover strength slowly without consuming ICs while staying in cored areas. When destroyed, they will return to the capital with half or less strength.

The guerilla idea is intriguing, it seems like a great way to let the commies build up during the war behind the lines as historically without having them actually fight. About the supply limits, HOI3 had a wonderful system where Japan actually couldn't put too many troops into China or their supplies would collapse. Prompting many people to complain that Japan was broken because they couldn't supply 50 divisions in China effectively. It can be done.
 
Suggestions for early China

-the contry starts as Republic of China
*Yuan Shikai as Head of the state
*Sun Yatsen( Sun Zhongsan) as head of government
*events-
>in December 12, 1915 Republic becomes Empire of China, with Yuan Shikai as the emperor,going against the people's will, with Japan's aid, an event fires that takes away all the money in China.
>in December 25, 1915 national protection war begins
>in March 22, 1916, the empire is gone, start of the warlord Era
-Kuomindang
*Sun Yatsen as head of the state, and head of government
*some good events would be
>3 principle of people
>Sun's death in 12 March 1925
>the rise of Chiang Kaishek after Sun's death

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China_1912-1928.svg
here's the flag for Republic of china
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/YuanFlag1.svg
here's the Flag for Empire of china
Code:
[CODE][PHP][/PHP]
[/CODE]

i'm sure there's much more detail than what i described here, but i'm just hoping to help out the team :rolleyes:
 
Thanks for your ideas. Actually Sun Yat Sen is already sidelined by 1913. Yuan Shikai's Empire of China plan went over so poorly that it was withdrawn in 5 days. There was another attempt to restore the Qing Dynasty putting Pu Yi back on the throne which was a bit more serious. The rise of Chiang and Mao was the result of serious backing by the Soviet Union, without which China would probably have been unified under the 1911 regime. Nationalist China between 1917 and 1927 essentially occupied Guangdong Province only. Sun's death is definitely an event because how else would Chiang Kai Shek come into play? Planning on doing the major warlord conflicts of the 1920s. Right now am still researching the leaders, ministers and tech teams. Got the Guominjun Clique done. It was important from about 1924 to 1933. Researching this I am really amazed how much has been left out of the history books. As for the Constitutional Protection Wars, I believe there were two of them. In the first one, provinces threatened to break away but secession was short-lived. The 1917 movement was more serious and when that occurs plan to release Yunnan, Guangxi Clique and Nationalist China, with Xibei San Ma and Shanxi released in 1920 so they don't have to take part in wars involving the other factions.
Sun will definitely be HOS for the GMD but not sure about HOG.

As for Hebei warlords, here's what the Paradox description says for Shanxi:
Yan Shanxi and the other warlords in Hebei-Chahar-Suiyuan who were settled in Northern China were in a precarious position in early 1936. To the south...
Shanxi was always intended to represent an aggregate, not the real domain of Yan Xishan. Similarly, Yunnan includes the Sichuan warlord territory.
It was actually people left over from the Fengtian and Guominjun cliques that were influential in Hebei province, with no Hebei warlord per se. Hebei is actually the modern name for what used to be called Zhili, but the Zhili clique was defunct by then. Representation as Shanxi is merely intended to represent the fact that Chiang did not have full freedom of action in that area. In this case, it was not the other warlords that were depriving him of full freedom of action--it was Japan. One of the events in the Darkest Hour implementation of the Sino-Japanese War is that when the war breaks out, Shanxi and Guangxi Clique are immediately annexed. In this context, the representation of Chiang having full control in Hebei only when the war with Japan starts is actually quite realistic. One possibility is to cede Hebei to Nationalist China with the Xian incident.--in other words Chiang could either have Hebei or carry out his war against the commies.
 
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Do you mean that the NatChina gets Hebei if Chiang gets kidnapped? If you give them Hebei before the war with Japan, the Marco Polo Bridge and the Battle of Shanghai won't happen. I still am sort of hoping for two or three events for Marco Polo rather than just one, to show the gradual escalation. As for the HOG, the Guominjun was sponsored by the old guangxi clique so why not put one of them in that position, since they actually ran everything? When Sun yat sen dies there could be a whole series of events to represent the jockeying for power between Wang jing wei and Chiang Kai shek.
 
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Some opinion:

Heibei should be a separate warlord or be CHI provinces. At least it should not be CSX's provinces.

The core problem of China theater is actually out of the map, it's the tech and production problem. China should be able to produce and maintaince a large army of about several times of the Japan however with very poor techs.

Also, something must be done to show the supply limit. The reason why the Japanese cannot break the stalement in China while being able to launch the Pacific War is that they cannot put more troops into China due to the supply limitation.

The CHC's effort during the war should also be represented. The main effect should not be attacking the Japanese troops, but disturbing the supply lines and preventing the Japanese from using the resource in the occupied areas easily. However, I don't think that this would be easily to mod due to the game system limitation...

In fact, if it is possible, I would suggest a special unit that will not consume supply and will not have lack of supply penalty in cored provinces to represent the guerrilla. They can recover strength slowly without consuming ICs while staying in cored areas. When destroyed, they will return to the capital with half or less strength.

totally agree!
 
The best candidate for a "Hebei warlord" might be leftover Fengtian Clique, which is one of the nations I'm creating right now. But actually the final result for "what to do with Hebei" might be a gameplay issue--keeping it as Shanxi or Fengtian helps the Japanese make an initial rapid advance before they encounter the better quality Nationalist China armies. One possibility is to have as a result of the Xian Incident, permission for Nationalist China to have military access to Fengtian. There are many ways to simulate guerrilla warfare. Probably the easiest way is increased partisan activity, requiring Japan to keep a large percentage of its forces away from the front lines. Also Com China could get manpower and production bonuses, further tying up Japan, requiring them to devote increasing amounts of troops in western Shanxi province.