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Having the US enter the war on the Allied side by raising Soviet Russias threat is just gamey and completely unlogical. Why would the USA join the Allies, thereby joining a war against the Axis, when their reason to be aggreviated is solely the USSR?
 
I don't necessarily see it as 'ahistorical' or 'gamey'

To protect themselves from the Communists, 'war' with the Axis nations would be seen as the lesser of the evils. Aligning themselves with the allies would potentially have been considered sooner if they believed communism was a real threat as big as fascism. Surrounded on all sides by hostile powers that are entering a brand new age of imperial world-wide? The German and Japanese threat eclipsed that of the Soviet threat during WWII because Stalin was not being aggressive at the time. Communist fears were still relatively high, and with two 'ideologically opposed' areas, different things may have happened in the USA, with different people having totally different opinions. How would the USA have felt about these 'Fascist minor's being 'liberated' by the USSR? Would they have felt that these titanic powers were trying to influence them?

I don't really consider use of the 'threat' mechanics in this way ahistorical simply because it didn't happen. How would USA have viewed the Communists if they were as aggressive as the Fascists during the same era? Would people have been worried about the 'two colliding' empires, or would USA have felt it was just another 'European problem' and gone off on their own tangent? We may never know because those that course of action was never taken, but we clearly saw the Soviet Union as by far the biggest threat as both the USA and USSR started to get more 'aggressive' toward each other after WWII.

Would this have enticed the USA to join the war against the axis? Perhaps. Facing an entire world aligned against them, USA may have felt it needed allies by the time. With most of the world under with Fascist or Communist control, it wouldn't be hard to miss exactly how isolated USA's position was, although 'pig headed isolationist' is indeed a good description of the US's overall attitude.

HOI3 can't model alternative possibilities with 100% accuracy since there is so much that is abstracted, but it does a fairly decent job. There's still a lot of room for improvement (such as the aforementioned 'threat inc as territory gain inc', but I still see something like this as feasible.

Game note: If Comintern is actually considered a 'separate' faction not part of the allies for the purposes of an MP game and can make independent decisions and is not required in any way to cooperate or even work with the allies, I don't believe the allies actually have any chance of winning period, and the game requires significant re balance to even be playable like that, although that would take us almost completely out of the realm of history.

As I said before, unfortunately not everything can be modeled perfectly.
 
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I don't necessarily see it as 'ahistorical' or 'gamey'

To protect themselves from the Communists, 'war' with the Axis nations would be seen as the lesser of the evils.
Quite illogical to intend to wage war vs the Axis when the enemy is the Communists. Since the Axis in this game didn't pose a threat to the US, there'd be no reason to fight them in the first place. If the USA wanted to knock out the Russians, they could've decided to do so on their own. In fact, since the Axis were the ideological counterpart of the Communits, the USAs best bet would be to wait until they were at war with each other and hopefully decimate themselves.
 
Quite illogical to intend to wage war vs the Axis when the enemy is the Communists. Since the Axis in this game didn't pose a threat to the US, there'd be no reason to fight them in the first place. If the USA wanted to knock out the Russians, they could've decided to do so on their own. In fact, since the Axis were the ideological counterpart of the Communits, the USAs best bet would be to wait until they were at war with each other and hopefully decimate themselves.

As I mentioned, both have high 'threat', as I said it's possible the US may have at some point seek allies. Soviet may have been seen as the bigger 'threat' but with no direct way to get to them (Japan in the west, Germany/Italy in the east, USSR effectively landlocked except in the almost useless far-eastern theater, but with no nearby friendly bases, invasion there would both be risky and pointless, USA may have decided it needed 'democratic' allies to help guarantee it's own independence. It's best shot for that would have been the Western powers. Would that mean fighting a war potentially with the Axis? Perhaps.

It's also possible that with no war declaration there might have been talk of a 'Soviet German' pact, even if there was no formal alliance.

The way logic works and the way crowds and leader thinks are strange indeed sometimes at the ground level (e.g. the bomb gap and missile gap during the cold war). The 'real' events are abstracted seem plausible to us because we know this ground level context that surrounds it. As history diverges in HOI3, I don't see it as fatal that different attitudes could have emerged, different scares, different opinions. By changing any one thing you have a sudden ripple effect that affects everything else (e.g. butterfly effect). Changing many things means that I can accept that given a fairly workable system, reasonable supporting circumstances (although they may be many changes at the ground level that feed into it) can be seen.

I don't really think it's that far of a leap. Because this is an abstraction we don't have the full range of context and interactions that could have potentially lead up to the these events, I prefer to assume that the context is plausible. That's not the say the system can be tweaked.

In either case, I do prefer the USSR simply declare war on the Germany themselves, but this is a potential alternative. Living in a dangerous world usually does entice nations to try to form alliances, even if there are potential drawbacks and external negatives to it. Where that threat comes from in reality may not even be that important, only the perception of threat may be.

Another example of context would be Perhaps the 'red scare' would have happened earlier and the USA leaders may have felt the Soviets were going to grow too powerful if they managed to conquer Germany, and based on their information, the Soviets were in a very good position to do with the German empire spread so thin. This war in Germany would become a 'race to Berlin' to try to capture as much of Europe as possible. The axis become more of buffer and trading piece between the allies and communists.

Again, we'll never know of these types of lines of thought would have been pursued, or are even really feasible really. People think of of the darnest things, and other people believe them. It has (and will continue to) cause many strange things to happen in History.
 
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Interesting posts, guys. Though Delwacks reasoning is interesting from a irl-perspective I feel it have little baring on the issue concerning MP as the vanilla setting give USSR no incentative whatsoever to be calm. USSR have only benefits from waging constant war as it gives them more land, war economy and high threat on US, which will serve them good as the Axis threat will be dealt with more swiftly. We have now created a house rule that blocks USSR from DOWing if they have a higher threat than Germany. It is to make Axis actions determine the entry of US and make USSR behave a little more historical. Still, after the winter war they can attack at least one more country which gives them a little bit of freedom.

Still, some guys don't like these kinds of restrictions. The "monday-game-guys" plays without such a rule but, as is quite clear in Traks AAR, those games turnes out a bit more "wild and crazy" then our games. I guess its a matter of taste.
 
Surprisingly, the Axis didn't exist during the period of WWI. If you are referring to the Central Powers, you might want to have a look here.

U-Boats attacked American shipping in WW2 too, before any declaration of war. The threatening bit is more connected to the maintenace of the status quo, which was broken, in WW2, with France's defeat in less than a year, and with Japan's conquest of China. The power of the combined Axis nations was almost enough to take on every other country in that scenario (UK falling)
 
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Very nice AAR!

Balancing US and SOV threat and DOWs seems to be a real challenge in MP games. In our groups we often see a super aggressive USSR which means the US is in the war in 1939 or at the latest 1940. Wish PI would do something to balance this aspect of the game in the expansion.
 
Very nice AAR!

Balancing US and SOV threat and DOWs seems to be a real challenge in MP games. In our groups we often see a super aggressive USSR which means the US is in the war in 1939 or at the latest 1940. Wish PI would do something to balance this aspect of the game in the expansion.

Nice to get comments on this fossil, Juv ;) Yes, I agree with you fully. As you can see on the "House Rule"-section in Sudden Carnage we have taken away Soviets posibility of beeing super aggressive as non of us like the idea of Soviet "behavior" triggering US entering the war against Axis. In the best of worlds, this would be modded somehow - but we like time and/or knowledge to deal with it ourselves. Thus the blunt House Rules.
 
Thanks. You have a couple of more to chose between if you like the style ;)