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Thread: Let the ruling classes tremble – an Interactive Revolutionary AAR

  1. #3061
    Hmm, I'd also like to see some suggestions to forcibly remove the Capitalists from Africa, rather than to just beat them to the punch at colonising. I'd also like to see some more arguments for intervention in Asia, since what Engels said isn't true; the Asians had been dominated by elitist rule for much longer a time than Europeans.

    Another question of plausibility: Why were the Marxists such strong supporters of pensions? Wasn't it the Utopian idea that the elderly should commit suicide as a service to the state? If I remember correctly, some of Marx's students committed suicide because of this.

    Also... How about a disenfranchised Bismark showing their face? Maybe Otto's son Herbert. Clawed his way from the bottom of the army after his father was stripped of his pride and land? Seeking revenge?

  2. #3062
    Quote Originally Posted by Zechsmerquise73
    They would be concerned with spreading the Comintern without war, perhaps leading to a Fascist craze throughout the world - if its anti-Marxist attitude didn't create a Fascist sub-faction of its own.
    I dont know how well a fascist faction would do in the election. When the militerests were introduced people had a fascist scare even though they were'nt really fascists, I even remember people calling Tommy a fascist for introducing them

  3. #3063
    The 45 Tommy4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZechsMerquise73 View Post
    Another question of plausibility: Why were the Marxists such strong supporters of pensions? Wasn't it the Utopian idea that the elderly should commit suicide as a service to the state? If I remember correctly, some of Marx's students committed suicide because of this.
    Why didn't the Marxist support the elderly committing suicide once they could no longer work? hmm, mabye its because THEY AREN'T BATSHIT INSANE!!!!!

  4. #3064
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy4ever View Post
    Why didn't the Marxist support the elderly committing suicide once they could no longer work? hmm, mabye its because THEY AREN'T BATSHIT INSANE!!!!!
    Well, that doesn't mean they'd support pensions as their first priority. But, uh, that suicide thing was the Utopian idea, wasn't it? I was asking a question.

    Ok, its extreme for an AAR, but I wasn't suggesting they'd enforce ritual suicide on the elderly. I just don't think they'd support pensions.
    Last edited by ZechsMerquise73; 01-01-2011 at 04:31.

  5. #3065
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    Personally, I'd like a real fascist faction, seeing as that's what I originally intended to vote for when this AAR started up. But I doubt it'll ever really happen >.< Denmark was a mere fluke. There's little chance of fascists even getting into the Party in the VSVR, let alone actually winning an election.
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  6. #3066
    I don't think they need to win, or even be a party. Really, that defeats the whole purpose unless they are cloaked fascists. Or maybe just communists who, after time, adopted trends that became totally anti-communist; or at least associated with anti-communist. Still, the communist movement is big in the AAR, and now its time for a powerful Fascist movement to rear its head - primarily or totally external, unless its like the two situations mentioned above.

  7. #3067
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    Hrm. I suppose you have a point there. Oh well, all we can do for now is wait and see what goes down.

    EDIT: Now that I think about it, it would be really interesting to see a Bismark high-up in the ranks of a Fascist movement.
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  8. #3068
    Yeah I always wanted to see a fascist movement in the VSVR, though I dont know if it I would want them to win as that would likely reduce our power.

  9. #3069
    Lt. General Aliasing's Avatar
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    Fascism is an interesting thing I'm surprised the Fascists haven't tried to gain control sooner

  10. #3070
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZechsMerquise73 View Post
    Well, that doesn't mean they'd support pensions as their first priority. But, uh, that suicide thing was the Utopian idea, wasn't it? I was asking a question.

    Ok, its extreme for an AAR, but I wasn't suggesting they'd enforce ritual suicide on the elderly. I just don't think they'd support pensions.
    lol... Yes, that was the Utopian ideal. And the bodies would be processed in blood factories, their blood mixed into milk and distributed equally. The proletariat of the world would then ritually consume the milk-blood to imbibe their revolutionary spirit, giving thanks to Father Marx for creating paradise on Earth.

    Are you serious? This is the most ridiculous and blatant anti-Marxist propaganda I've heard since I saw documentary trying to detail how Hitler developed his ideology from Communism. First of all. Marx and Engels weren't utopian Socialists, so they advocated for no utopian ideals. Secondly, as Tommy said, they weren't batshit insane. Thirdly, they most certainly did advocate for the welfare of the elderly and infirm, and the bullshit you're talking about never once was advocated for, nor happened. I defy you to provide a shred of evidence proving otherwise.
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  11. #3071
    The entire point of communism is to take care of the people. Pensions might not be at the tippy top of the pyramid of important things but it's pretty darn important to give people a dignified retirement if you can afford it. Furthermore it's important to consider the time period. The late 19th century was when the idea of government pensions was becoming a staple of left wing agendas worldwide. Of course the VSVR would embrace the idea. The Soviets had some limited form of government pensions nearly from the start of their movement.
    Economic theory: P → Q, P ∴ Q, QED
    Economic practice: P → Q ∴ {!P} = ∅, QED
    Economic research: P → Q ☡ ∴ Q, QED

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  12. #3072
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    I guess the truth has come out. Communists kill old people and Anarchists eat babies.
    We could only hide it for so long.
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  13. #3073
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    Well I guess we couldn't hide it forever.... Also Liberals devour souls

  14. #3074
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  15. #3075
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZechsMerquise73 View Post
    I'm just pointing out that, in real life, Spain recieved a lot more support toward anti-Communism than is portrayed in the AAR; and a lot of that support came from the Catholics, externally and internally. It was a very Catholic nation: what would one expect them to do when faced with potential Atheist rule?
    And a lot of support towards Communism. About comparison with this AAR, in fact, there is more White insurgence than in OTL.

    And what if a lot of support came from Catholics? Any religion fight against atheist ideas, and, in Spain, the core of Anticommunism wasn't only the Church. There was a tradition of reaction against any progresist ideas since 1812.

    PS: It is a very Catholic nation.
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  16. #3076
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aliasing View Post
    Fascism is an interesting thing I'm surprised the Fascists haven't tried to gain control sooner
    Some kind of Left Wing Fascism like Italian National Syndicalism could exist. That was Mussolini's faction in the Socialist Party while he still was Socialist.

  17. #3077
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy4ever View Post
    Glad to have you aboard ZechsMerquise!

    Well I'll admit I'm dissapointed that the French and particularily Prussians failed to beat me down when they had the chance. But I cannot force the AI to attack me. That's just a problem with the game.

    The Bohemian War was really just a name. I think its pretty clear that Bohemia wasn't the primary part of that conflict.

    As for anti VSVR coalitions. At the end of the Bohemian War I was basically the lord of all Europe. After I had beaten the UK and Russia in the Eastern War it was obvious that I was the unchallenged military hegemon of Europe. Any pan-capitalist alliance would have little hope of bringing me down. So the Imperialist powers prefer to try to abritrate with the VSVR. For some (like the UK and to a lesser extent Russia) this has meant large periods of peace and economic cooperation. For others (France and Austria) this has backfired as the Republic has struck repeatedly against them.

    In RL Spain had one of the strongest Leftwing movements in Europe. Also in the AAR they had a massive White rebellion in which I actually had to send troops to save them. Rebels have swept Spain a couple more times since. This more than counts as a major insurgency. Spain is the least stable Comintern state with the CSR, Sweden and Italy also being major offenders.

    The Anarchists (pre-Kropotkin) had a long history of being pro-Union and this section of the faction was still prominent making the pull to what was not far from a reincarnation of the ill fated United Trade Unions faction (remember them?) reasonably strong. Plus both factions seemed to agree on a lot of issues and both wanted to end Marxist dominance (20 years of Marxist dominanted government would make any opposition eager for a chance at power, even if it compromises on their beliefs - think Clegg). The Anarchists had also come painfully close in the past two elections to victory building up desperation for a shot in power. The alliance might have worked. Sadly Kropotkin was bombarded by issues and this marked the high tide of Trade Union mismangement making an alliance with a pro-Union faction an utter disaster.

    I too am suprised that no one ever really took to the Moderates. They were basically a continutation of the Marxist factions (Marxists and United Front) that governed from 1855 until 1875. Basically those Marxist who prefered to stick to the ideas of Marx and Engels rather than accept Lenin's new leadership and ideas. But they crashed and burned, despite me providing life support by a decent Workers' Vote in each election.

    Lenin did launch a purge, of sorts. The majority of the Anarchist and Independent leadership was killed in the Civil War and several key figures were imprisoned (like that warrior for freedom - Necazian). However the People's Party is a strange organism. Although the Anarchists were illegal the party was still made up of anywhere between 20 and 40% pro-Anarchists. Can you really wipe away that much of your Party? Of course not. Remember in this AAR Lenin never actually wanted to destroy the democracy - just to remove what he saw as damaging influences (Unionists and Anarchists).

    If you weren't reading the comments then I assure you Lenin got a lot of poo flung at him over all sorts of things. Much more so than any other Chairman we've had.

    Interesting how you describe your new faction idea. As you probably realise I can't introduce too many factions but with the enfranchisement of the farmers (finally) I plan to create a new faction. It's has quite a few similarities with the sort of faction you described. As a small spoiler it's going to be led by another balshy Frenchman (we've not had one for awhile ) and shall be called the Revolutionary faction.

    I'd also like to announce that the AAR will resume properly (no more self indulgent Scottish successes ) tommorrow, I mean later today but not in the middle of the night . A new year a new Chairman!
    Yay! Election time!

    About the Moderates, most people see them as rather statist and rigid. You might find this a contradiction in terms, but most of the party criticises idealism.

    Finally, this new faction! It will be intresting to see it's policies, and I will be spared not having a faction that represents my views.

  18. #3078
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthippus View Post
    lol... Yes, that was the Utopian ideal. And the bodies would be processed in blood factories, their blood mixed into milk and distributed equally. The proletariat of the world would then ritually consume the milk-blood to imbibe their revolutionary spirit, giving thanks to Father Marx for creating paradise on Earth.

    Are you serious? This is the most ridiculous and blatant anti-Marxist propaganda I've heard since I saw documentary trying to detail how Hitler developed his ideology from Communism. First of all. Marx and Engels weren't utopian Socialists, so they advocated for no utopian ideals. Secondly, as Tommy said, they weren't batshit insane. Thirdly, they most certainly did advocate for the welfare of the elderly and infirm, and the bullshit you're talking about never once was advocated for, nor happened. I defy you to provide a shred of evidence proving otherwise.
    Well, isn't that why Laura Marx and her husband killed themselves?

  19. #3079
    The 45 Tommy4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZechsMerquise73 View Post
    Well, isn't that why Laura Marx and her husband killed themselves?
    First off. Lafargue is most famous fo being the person who Marx was refering to when he said ''if they are Marxists then I am not''. Secondly I'm pretty sure they killed themselves (at the age of 70) because they did not want to see themselves degrade (a not uncommon idea throughout history) and felt that they could no longer help the movement they had donated their lives to.

    This is pretty far removed from your idea that Marxists feel that all old people should be euthenised.

    As others have said socialism is based around the idea of helping people - not of killing them to make room for a better society. The idea that the Marxists would support such an abominable ideal is actually pretty insulting to the real life figures and to the movement.

  20. #3080
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZechsMerquise73 View Post
    Well, isn't that why Laura Marx and her husband killed themselves?
    The actions of two individuals can hardly be considered representative of the Socialist movement as a whole.
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