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Thread: Let the ruling classes tremble – an Interactive Revolutionary AAR

  1. #2421
    Captain Mr. Sometimes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enewald View Post
    Farmers do not work?
    Bureaucrats do not work?
    Soldiers do not work?
    Clerks do not work?
    Land-workers do not work?

    They are not equal humans when compared to those who sit in factories day-long?

    A man who chooses not to make ammunition, but tends the soil that each man gets his bread, is not equal to vote?
    A Bureaucrat, a soldier, a clerk or a mine worker all work. They do not own their means of production, only their minds and bodies and it is their labour that they sell. A farmer owns his land and the crop that he and his workers grow, and it is the production he sells, not his own labour.

  2. #2422
    Lord of the Small Things Thezfel101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enewald View Post
    Farmers do not work?
    Bureaucrats do not work?
    Soldiers do not work?
    Clerks do not work?
    Land-workers do not work?

    They are not equal humans when compared to those who sit in factories day-long?

    A man who chooses not to make ammunition, but tends the soil that each man gets his bread, is not equal to vote?
    I'm going to have to (God this feels weird > . >) agree with Enewald on this one. In order to achieve a future of Communism where mankind is truly equal in prosperity we should try to make this Republic as equal as possible. I see no reason why the vote should not be extended to other classes. You may claim these sections of society are backward or counterrevolutionary but then doesn't it fall to us to educate them comrades? If anything you shouldn't be arguing against an extension, but rather arguing for greater educational spending!

  3. #2423
    Did not the farmers work under the nobility and land owning classes for centuries, the proletarians have only suffered for a few centuries at most.

    The greedy farmer is a myth, how is it that they continue to be poorer and less literate, could it be that we are oppressing them in the name of the "proletariat"? It is time that the remaining citizens of our glorious republic are recognized for what they truly are, good proletarians all.

  4. #2424
    Captain Mr. Sometimes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezfel101 View Post
    I'm going to have to (God this feels weird > . >) agree with Enewald on this one. In order to achieve a future of Communism where mankind is truly equal in prosperity we should try to make this Republic as equal as possible. I see no reason why the vote should not be extended to other classes. You may claim these sections of society are backward or counterrevolutionary but then doesn't it fall to us to educate them comrades? If anything you shouldn't be arguing against an extension, but rather arguing for greater educational spending!
    I'm not saying I'm not. In any case higher education spending would be a lot better way to invest the Republic's money than on giant statues and opera houses.

  5. #2425
    I call for the peaceful collectivization of farming to make them proletarian so they can vote.

    The Clerk and Soldier do sell there Labor, most Clerks and Soldiers are payed per hour or monthly. They sell there labor time for a wage.
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  6. #2426
    Lord of the Small Things Thezfel101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sometimes View Post
    I'm not saying I'm not. In any case higher education spending would be a lot better way to invest the Republic's money than on giant statues and opera houses.
    I concur. It's a pity a desire for increased educational spending wasn't brought to Lenin's attention back then. Perhaps we should petition the Politburo to make the next Gigantomania project of this Republic the greatest educational system the world has ever known? Imagine, the VSVR the home to the world's top universities. The eager young minds of the bourgeois will come to our Worker's Republic to not only learn the cutting edge of Academia but the true successes of the Socialist Experiment. Beyond that the entire Republic will benefit from the supreme gift of humanity: Learning. Let us not only advance the vote, but advance the knowledge.

  7. #2427
    Captain Mr. Sometimes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezfel101 View Post
    I concur. It's a pity a desire for increased educational spending wasn't brought to Lenin's attention back then. Perhaps we should petition the Politburo to make the next Gigantomania project of this Republic the greatest educational system the world has ever known? Imagine, the VSVR the home to the world's top universities. The eager young minds of the bourgeois will come to our Worker's Republic to not only learn the cutting edge of Academia but the true successes of the Socialist Experiment. Beyond that the entire Republic will benefit from the supreme gift of humanity: Learning. Let us not only advance the vote, but advance the knowledge.
    This idea is something I support whole-heartedly. The more educated our people are, the better they can take the responsibility that comes with voting.

  8. #2428
    Field Marshal Tommy4ever's Avatar
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    A couple of things.

    First, most peasant holdings have been collectivised - so they are no longer owned by individual greedy farmers. However the farms never had the same level of state or Union control as industry. So now collective farms still operate quite seperately from the state and often drive the state a hard bagain on food prices (which the state is trying to keep artificially low but have been creeping up for some time). So some of your ideas of the farmers are right and some wrong.

    Second I'll just say the age of Gigantomania is well and truly dead. During Lenin's first term wer reached the height of the state's wealth, at this stage I had a massive treasury and had not once experienced debt. High Marxist taxes, healthy spending in all areas and no tariffs - I was swimming in cash so reflected this in the AAR. The Anarchist-Independent government, at all times unlucky, picked the worst time possible to come to power and bring in tax cuts as the industrial subsidies which had been slowly rising for decades started to build momentum in their gain. By the time Kropotkin was kicked out we had started to build up some serious debt. I'll give you a little spoiler and say that even after Lenin returns and raises taxes again our financial difficulties don't end. Spiralling industrial subsdies and conflict (you already knew about this) couple to send our debt on an unmitigated increase. In order combat the debt I eventually had to start raising tariffs - something I had largely avoided up to this stage. Debt peaked at around 1/4 of a million pounds before I started to tackle it properly. So as you can see, Gigantomania might have made sense when the goods times were here - now we need to have some fiscal austerity (but I promise no student fees! ).

    Finally - expect and update tommorrow. I hope to get in an election before the Xmas break but that all depends on whether the Lenin term can be fit into 2 updates or if I need a 3rd.

    ps Raph - I am litterally blown away by that fact your name isn't Ralph. I've seen your username so many times and not once have I thought it was anything but Ralph. I guess when you've seen the word Ralph before but never Raph you just glance at the word and assume it is the familiar one. Wierd.

  9. #2429
    Share Our Wealth! Seek75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy4ever View Post
    Ralph, Seek75, Communard, winsingtonIII, keynes2.0 - meet the moderates! These guys vote for varying factions but none of them are particularily extreme (I think a few have swung between both Right and Left wing parties over the course of the AAR).
    Ya, I'm more or less a moderate who swings a bit more to the right. I do believe in social reform, but I am very much against any kind of authoritarianism, and any kind of restriction of speech or expression. I started up as a German Socialist in the first two elections, then I went Anarchist. I voted once for the Militarists because I had originally wanted to be more of a fascist in this AAR, but I regretted it and the next election I voted Independent, although I now also regret that vote too.
    A rebel without a cause.

  10. #2430
    Lord of the Small Things Thezfel101's Avatar
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    Ah I see, I knew we had financial difficulties but I didn't really comprehend it to be that bad. I'm not an economic master but it sounds like Lenin is taking the right approach, austerity it is. *Shelves the idea for another time.*

  11. #2431
    Kohlgroßherzog KomodoWaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enf91 View Post
    Why am I getting a Christine O'Donnell vibe?
    Comrade, who is this Christine O'Donnell you are talking about?

    Is she an Irish socialist?

  12. #2432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy4ever View Post
    I assume you mean the posters?

    OK, here goes a small selection:

    Enewald - very vocal, allegedly an Anarchist but in truth he just loves to shout angrily at Marxists and Lenin in particular - accusations of baby eating have dogged him for some time. But remember Enewald - those allegations were never proven!

    Ricainfier - similar to Enewald but more of an Anarchist

    Kadon - you may have seen him in the story, he's a strait laced radical Anarchist and all round man's man

    Necazian - again someone you'll have seen in the story - he seems to be the luckly electoral charm as whichever faction he supports (and it could be any faction) tends to win. He seems to be open to pretty much anything.

    Tanzhang - a Marxist with a hint of authoritarianism

    Ralph, Seek75, Communard, winsingtonIII, keynes2.0 - meet the moderates! These guys vote for varying factions but none of them are particularily extreme (I think a few have swung between both Right and Left wing parties over the course of the AAR)

    naggy - he likes to make amusing and witty comments

    Apologies if your not on this list, I just looked at the top 10 posters in this thread and a couple of others who came to mind.
    I had an article published and didn't make the list? Maddness!

  13. #2433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy4ever View Post
    Ricainfier - similar to Enewald but more of an Anarchist
    I find being compared to Enewald highly disturbing....

  14. #2434
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sometimes View Post
    A Bureaucrat, a soldier, a clerk or a mine worker all work. They do not own their means of production, only their minds and bodies and it is their labour that they sell. A farmer owns his land and the crop that he and his workers grow, and it is the production he sells, not his own labour.
    This is highly unorthodox Marxism! The farmer is often a remnant of the pre-capitalist subordinate class, and accordingly does not have full control over his labour power (E.g. his lord may requisition him to build Cologne Cathedral), or his means of production (E.g. He may rent the land, have to buy the seeds from someone else), and the labour power and means of production which he does control are often very limited by external factors (Esp. Seasons, weather, disease of livestock). This differs from the proletarian, who has complete control over his labour power, and exercises it all year round, but does not possess the means of production, but clearly does not render the farmer a member of the bourgeois.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy4ever View Post
    Second I'll just say the age of Gigantomania is well and truly dead.
    Oh well ._. But is there any support in theory for a Cathedral of Communism amongst the party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy4ever
    now we need to have some fiscal austerity (but I promise no student fees! ).
    Oh nice

    Quote Originally Posted by KomodoWaran View Post
    Comrade, who is this Christine O'Donnell you are talking about?

    Is she an Irish socialist?
    No, she's you

  15. #2435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enewald View Post
    go vicky2 aarland, you see the number of posts and views every aar has, click on posts.
    Enewald actually posting something useful?
    This is madness! (cheesy, but it fits)

    @the list: You should also list those who have risen from the grave.
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  16. #2436
    Lord of the Small Things Thezfel101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phalanxia View Post
    Oh well ._. But is there any support in theory for a Cathedral of Communism amongst the party?
    A Cathedral by definition is a building of religion which wouldn't really work with what we're trying to promote. When we have the funds for such projects, perhaps we could convert the Cathedral into a modern administrative capitol for the Republic? While Cologne is certainly a large city, it wasn't built for running not only the administrative needs of Germany but the international revolution as a whole. I believe my fellows here can attest we are hard pressed to fit in our meeting room for the monthly Party meetings. Thus the building could serve a practical purpose as well as existing as the preeminent symbol of the power of our Revolution.

  17. #2437
    Kurt's Best AAR Reader Viden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enewald View Post
    Farmers do not work?
    Bureaucrats do not work?
    Soldiers do not work?
    Clerks do not work?
    Land-workers do not work?

    They are not equal humans when compared to those who sit in factories day-long?

    A man who chooses not to make ammunition, but tends the soil that each man gets his bread, is not equal to vote?
    Clerks, bureucrats and soldiers are part of the proletariat. Land-workers and farmers are the same.
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  18. #2438
    Field Marshal naggy's Avatar
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    I support the completion of the cathedral, and I share this graph from Indexed to buttress my argument:

  19. #2439
    Quote Originally Posted by Thezfel101 View Post
    A Cathedral by definition is a building of religion which wouldn't really work with what we're trying to promote. When we have the funds for such projects, perhaps we could convert the Cathedral into a modern administrative capitol for the Republic? While Cologne is certainly a large city, it wasn't built for running not only the administrative needs of Germany but the international revolution as a whole. I believe my fellows here can attest we are hard pressed to fit in our meeting room for the monthly Party meetings. Thus the building could serve a practical purpose as well as existing as the preeminent symbol of the power of our Revolution.
    I chose the term Cathedral of Communism solely for the alliteration, so we don't have to call it that. Turning it into a space for the monthly meeting would be a good use of it, and probably a lot less controversial than any museum would be, but we have to be careful that it doesn't just become the biggest, prettiest and most expensive office space in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by naggy View Post
    I support the completion of the cathedral, and I share this graph from Indexed to buttress my argument:
    +1

  20. #2440
    Field Marshal Tommy4ever's Avatar
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    Since the Cathedral idea seems quite popular how about I make it the new meeting place of the Constituent Assembly? It seems a better idea that the office block or museum proposed by others.

    ps I'm in a pretty socialisty mood right now after completing my history dissertation on Trotsky and Stalin

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