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Nachtwesen

Nachtwesen

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Sep 29, 2009
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Hey friends.

I would like to know you opinion about a topic which is annoying me lately in all my games (Versio 1.2).

The main questions is:

"What is the point of an alliance in the game?"

You spend many points to start good relations and sometimes they are so good that you can form alliances. First of all I was happy and got a feeling of secured land.

In my latest game I played belgium and thought it would be great to have good relations with france as they are huge and powerful and could overrun me.

I wanted them as friends. And I did archive that.

I was allied with france, spain, denmark and sweden. As I said I was happy and thought now I have much time to push my economy without any war. It should be my first game without beeing a warmonk. I just wanted to lead my country with peace. Never did do anything like this in games.

But..

Then UK declared war without reason on me. When I did hear the war sound I thought in the first milisecond "HAHA! Now you get trouble with my alliance!"

BUt next second I did see 4 popups which told me france, spain, denmark and sweden canceled the alliance because they wont war.

Im not good in math but for me it looks like it was a 100% chance that they wont defend me. :mad:

So again..

"What is the point of an alliance in the game, if your allys anyway cancel it when war is coming?"

What do you think?

Btw. Sorry for my bad english.Im from germany. Hope you was able to read what I mean.

So, far..
Greetings from germany and enjoy your day.
 
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+1
The alliance system does not reflect the historical accurate commitment a military alliance implied during the time. Hell one major cause of the Great War was the blind backing up of your allies no matter what - no dishonoring of alliances here no way! Alliances are far to lightweight in the game, too EU3ish, appropriate in EU3 but not in the modern era reflected in vicky.

P.S. I miss the defensive alliance option from vicky 1.
 
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I think alliances are really pointless. If your ally is not a SOI, he will not likely intervene on your behalf, especially if you are attacking and even less if you are both GPs. for the AI however it works.
I also have difficulties as Prussia with low infamy to ally anyone on my borders, only GB wants to ally and stay a little bit faithfull.
 
Agree and the main problem is if you country has not the capacity like UK, France or Prussia.. you are rely to good alliances. Its just not possible to beat UK without alliance if you play for example a country with smaller military capacity. So from gameplay view it is imo extremly annoying that peoples can cancel alliances. There should be any mechanic that say "Ok now you must defend your ally for 2 years" or so.

I dont even know why they did attack me. Maybe because I did influence netherland or so. Dunno. However now my only possibility would be to load the savegame as UK and make peace. But this is not hw I like to play. Other way would be to start a new game. :(
 
The alliance works in two ways:

1. As a deterrence for the AI. The UK probably thought it could beat your entire alliance, but others would have avoided going to war because of it.
2. A chance to defend the allied nation in case of war. The choice here is to either get a hit in militancy and infamy (AFAIK) or join the war. Unfortunately for you, none of your allies actually wanted to get fucked up over Belgium so they chose not to go to war with the only superpower in the world.

So an alliance is a good thing, but won't protect you if your alliance-partners don't think the alliance has any chance of winning the war. That being said, I've seen some pretty hopeless alliances keep together even after the UK declared war - so it's probably a bit of a chance game.

If your alliance has a chance (even if it's not 100%) of winning, they will probably join in. I've had alliances join in Great wars before, but only when we weren't hopelessly outnumbered.

Oh, and if you want protection from a Great Power you need to be in their SoI. Few will go to war with another great power over "neutral" ground.
 
Is there any "penalty" in game for dishonoring a call from your ally? Maybe if there was, the AI would be more apt to help you. I think a good penalty would be small increases in Infamy, Consciousness, Militancy and a small decrease in Prestige.

However, honoring a call, should also contain perks. A small decrease to Infamy, Con, Milt and a small Prestige Boost.
 
I've had most of my allies always ditching me in defencive wars. I don't mind if they don't want to join on a conquest spree, but you sort've assume that you make the Alliance simply as a means of saying "we'll each come defend one-another". It's just ridiculous that someone will DoW me, our military scores are fairly even without my allies, and all my allies chicken out even if they're max relations.
 
bingo2000 said:
+1
The alliance system does not reflect the historical accurate commitment a military alliance implied during the time. Hell one major cause of the Great War was the blind backing up of your allies no matter what - no dishonoring of alliances here no way! Alliances are far to lightweight in the game, to EU3ish, appropriate in EU3 but not in the modern era reflected in vicky.

P.S. I miss the defensive alliance option from vicky 1.
Click to expand...

I miss the defensive alliance option also, infact I wish EU3 and Rome would get it 2!
 
I was very surprised to see that the defensive alliance option didn't make it into this game...that option was a real one in the 19c Europe (IE Russia-Ottomans). I Basically use the alliance system to protect nations I see as buffers to keeping other nations from gaining too much power.
However, it is extremely annoying to always have any country not in your SOI dishonor your alliance. I believe if a country chooses to dishonor the agreement...they should get a large infamy hit and you should get a CB on them and, other countries should no want to Ally with them.....correct me if Im wrong but I thought that is how EU3 or Vicky 1 worked (can't quite remember).
 
1. As a deterrence for the AI. The UK probably thought it could beat your entire alliance, but others would have avoided going to war because of it.
Click to expand...
I can understand it.
But what about my case? I played as Serbia. I took Bosnia, South Serbia, North Macedonia and Albania from OE, and my cores from Austria (backstabed in their war with France). When truce is over Austria DOWs me. I have Italy and NGF as my allies. And they dishonor our alliance! Even two of us could easily beat Austria. Every country has CB on them. But both prefer to cancel alliance. Why?!
 
This has been my exp with allies
I am playing as United States decided the only way I could hope to survive the op of Great Britan was to make friends with other great powers and conquer some Asian territories so I invaded Japan and Korea. Allied with Prussia, and Austria (who I think currently hate each other I get a ton of messages that they keep discrediting each other.) After taking Korea I decided to invade China I knew the were allied with GB. Declared war without calling my allies GB, Russia (why they joined no idea they were not allied with China in any way) and China were now at war with me. Called my allies Prussia and Austria both came to aid some of the other po dunk countries who were my allies decided they would not join. That is the way it should work. I think I agree with the perks thing the AI should get perks to come I don't know if a player needs those though as we are smart enough to understand that GB left to conquer everyone else means were next at some point in time. The one thing that still confuses me is why France refuses to become my ally even know I have max rep with them.
 
Lexar_kg said:
I can understand it.
But what about my case? I played as Serbia. I took Bosnia, South Serbia, North Macedonia and Albania from OE, and my cores from Austria (backstabed in their war with France). When truce is over Austria DOWs me. I have Italy and NGF as my allies. And they dishonor our alliance! Even two of us could easily beat Austria. Every country has CB on them. But both prefer to cancel alliance. Why?!
Click to expand...

How was your infamy? If it's too high people hesitate to ally with you (or get dragged into your wars) as you are seen as a warmonger.
 
What's interesting is that alliances were respected roughly 70-80% of the time in the time period of the game. Firstly, countries formed alliances for a reason, which means that it made no sense for them to then back out of an alliance when their ally was attacked. And secondly, the hit to a country's reputation for violating an alliance was immense, and the damage to relations with the country they refused to defend would be overwhelming. I think the only two scenarios where allies should think twice about fulfilling their obligations is if they have bad relations with their ally and if the other side is too powerful.
 
bingo2000 said:
+1
The alliance system does not reflect the historical accurate commitment a military alliance implied during the time. Hell one major cause of the Great War was the blind backing up of your allies no matter what - no dishonoring of alliances here no way!
Click to expand...

What about Italy?

Dishonoring alliances was unusual, but happened, and a DOW from Great Britain on Belgium, specially considering how highly powerful the UK is in the game, would most likely result in a dishonor of alliances in any plausible context as well.
 
TAoD said:
Why do the AI's help each other all the time but they never help you?
Click to expand...

Actually, they break alliances with each as well. Playing as Austria, I noticed - the small countries that were allied with the Two Sicilies when I declared war broke alliance.
 
Selfish AIs just answer those Calls to Arm of a war that you will surely win without them, this is even more weird:
They betray you because they think the whole alliance will lose
They join you when you don't need them

????
 
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