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Thread: Porta Atlanticum, Portus Classis / An England MMU AAR

  1. #701
    Another soul eagerly waiting for another installment of this wonderful AAR!
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  3. #703
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    I eagerly await the resumption of this great AAR.

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    Spice Route?

    So it occured to me (and sorry if someone else mentioned this, I don't tend to read all the non-OP posts), but since Gibraltar is now an english core, are you eligible for the Spice Route exploration route? And if you are eligible, would you take it to find a route to your eventual goals in India, or just leave it for Portugal? Lastly, if you did take it, would you deviate to Brazil, or is that simply to far outside your stated goals?
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  5. #705
    Major Chris Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWSIII View Post
    So it occured to me (and sorry if someone else mentioned this, I don't tend to read all the non-OP posts), but since Gibraltar is now an english core, are you eligible for the Spice Route exploration route? And if you are eligible, would you take it to find a route to your eventual goals in India, or just leave it for Portugal? Lastly, if you did take it, would you deviate to Brazil, or is that simply to far outside your stated goals?
    If I had attained the proper naval tech level and had the proper advisor, I would have been eligible for the Spice Route decision, yes. But in MM, although it is not 100% guaranteed, Portugal is almost fated to achieve the Spice Route before anyone else. They start a couple naval tech levels ahead of every other nation, and I only started to close the gap on them in the early 16th century. I think I mentioned back in middle of Jane's reign that Portugal had found a sea route to India in the 1450s and established the Goa trading colony.

    As far as the exploration decisions go, I had originally intended only to select the Middle Point (as England did historically) and ignore the others—though in the end, I changed my mind and decided to select more than one exploration track. In fact it is a good idea to select as many exploration decisions as one is able to, strictly as a tactical move to delay the AI from colonising those areas. And some exploration decisions come with hefty bonuses which are worth it in their own right, whether on not one colonises the target area.

    Brazil is a little too far from the starting goals; I may opt to take territories that became British colonies post-1815, but in general I will try to focus on the main objectives first. Even if I were not trying to do so, Brazil would probably not be my first choice. Portugal starts building up a presence there rapidly, and I place Portugal's value as an ally above any Brazilian provinces. Once you start sharing land borders with your allies, then you and they start getting Border Disputes and other unpleasant things that might turn friends into enemies. The best allies you can have in EU3 are those that don't share any common borders and don't have any recurring obsessions.
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  6. #706
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    The spice must flow...
    even if not directly to the merchants on Portobello Road
    I have every faith in the power of the English merchants (and their marine) to provide the eventual prosperity of the nation.
    eventually...
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  7. #707
    I'm not sure if you remember my earlier post on how Orthodox Christianity could have impacted the Reformation and High Church Anglicanism in a world with greater East-West contact, but the Spice questions got me brainstorming on something more. Your style seems to favor convergent history, but one possibility I have always thought has gone unexplored is that the crown could have instead co-opted the monasteries in centralizing and nationalizing the Church.

    Given the power of the monasteries and their popular support, this could be a very effective policy. Reforms matching those that occurred historically limiting multiple benefices would still be possible. A merging of the positions of bishop and abbot could in some ways parallel the logistic and administrative portions of Presbyterianism, it could also draw on a quasi historical traditions of monastic supremacy in the early Celtic/British Church, a theme in Anglicanism that historically has only been used for the "Roman takeover". Redirecting all clerical taxes from Rome to the Crown would also provide the large stream of revenue to the Crown, without disrupting local production. Such an approach would most likely be favored by a monarch with strong ties in York and the North while also knowledgeable regarding Church Reform. The existence of large powerful monasteries in a government dominated Church would again have precedence in Eastern Europe and Greece. MM uses the term Lavras for these large monasteries in game. By lifting up some monasteries the Crown could also create some elements of the OTL Province system hybridizing it with a more local Presbyterian structure.

    Given the political climate at this stage in the AAR, such an alliance between Northern and possible Celtic interests and more continental and Greek/Byzantine ones seems unlikely, but with the War of the Roses around the corner who knows what political realignments may come. A moderate Yorkist or some north based Tudor-like House may be just the ticket to try and ride the Reformation to a unique brand of British Christianity something like this. Of course they could not be at all insecure in power or dependent on the Gentry, or else if they are to some degree, they would have to somehow mobilize the new monastic class against it.

    Of course historically the English Reformation was a long bloody mess, but I thought I'd give you some more food for thought and ideas to mull over. Can't wait for the next update and particularly any hints of the Reformation in game.
    Last edited by thekonkoe; 16-04-2012 at 16:41.

  8. #708
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    Quote Originally Posted by thekonkoe View Post
    I'm not sure if you remember my earlier post on how Orthodox Christianity could have impacted the Reformation and High Church Anglicanism in a world with greater East-West contact[...]
    I remember it, and I agree that the four-decade Byzantine PU would have created some ripples in England's theological development. I'm not entirely certain what form it will take, as my knowledge of the Renaissance-era Orthodox Church is basic at best; but I appreciate your ideas.

    MM doesn't really give one much flexibility in terms of dealing with monasteries in the Reformation. Once you change confessions to Protestant, it's assumed the abbeys will be raided and liquidated; the events only offer you a choice of how to allocate the booty, not whether any monastic orders will be permitted to exist (assuming they accept a breach with Rome).

    I tend to think that an order's potential survival would be directly tied to whether or not they derived considerable income from relics, and the amount of real estate they owned. If they didn't trigger any major Protestant hot-button issues like that, a particular order (or particular facility/location) might survive the dissolution. Large monasteries would be a focal point for familiar objections (how can men who have taken ascetic vows be landowners?). But I suppose if an order were prepared to abjectly submit itself to the national church and moderate its vows (i.e. ditch clerical celibacy, ditch cleric-as-intermediary, accept mostly laymen/oblates as opposed to cenobite monks), there is a possibility it could survive the transition.

    At base I don't know enough about Orthodoxy to comprehend how it reconciles monastic vows of asceticism with a clergy not required to live by the same restrictions. (i.e. What is the point of monks if you don't actually have to give up sex, property and so on to be sanctified?) So I run into a bit of a mental block there. I suppose some additional research into the Orthodox Church is warranted.

    Anyway, you've given me much food for thought, and for that I offer thanks.
    Last edited by Chris Taylor; 17-04-2012 at 14:19.
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  9. #709
    Orthodoxy tends to handle monasticism very different from Catholicism; where Catholicism tends to have orders of affiliated monasteries, for instance, Orthodoxy has free-standing communities of monasteries - Mt. Athos and the Solovetski Islands come to mind from memory. They're much less responsive to a central authority and more responsive to the surrounding monasteries. If you want an example of how Orthodox monasteries might handle the Reformation, the Teutonic Order actually gives a reasonable guide; they simply went "Welp, we're Lutheran now, and the Grand Master's a Duke," and no one really raised a fuss over it, since their secular power had been largely broken by then. It's quite possible that supportive nodes (for lack of a better word for your geographic centers) would simply see their estates converted to secular possessions, while unsupportive ones would get the full Tudor treatment.

    Our timeline, Orthodox Christianity underwent a bit of a dark age in the 1400s-1600s, since Constantinople fell. Regional autocephalous churches became much more common, which in turn would as often as not butt heads with the lords temporal (see Peter the Great for the Russian outcome). Because there was no "Rome" for the Eastern church, there was less of a network to allow either resistance to secular movements, or large-scale reform. It didn't help any that most of the great thinkers of the Eastern Empire during its waning days fled west (Plethon, again from memory), leaving it a bit of a wasteland while the various autocephalous churches figured out what they wanted to do with themselves.
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  10. #710
    Major Chris Taylor's Avatar
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    Ladies and gents, I have been remiss by failing to mention that voting for the Q1 2012 AARland Choice AwAARds is underway.

    As I have mentioned here before, writing these after-action reports is a labour of love; truthfully, all of the authors are thrilled to get comments from readers and, if we have been exceptionally fortunate, recognition via these awards. There are plenty of amazing AARs sprinkled across many of the Paradox game forums, and if you've enjoyed one or more especially, I would encourage you to help recognise that author's work by voting for it.

    UPDATE: I've just received approval to make the AAR semi-interactive (thanks Saithis, Mr. Capiatlist and Qorten), so I will also offer an enticement of sorts.

    Readers who cast a ballot in the ACAs and vote in all four game types (EU, CK, Vicky, HoI—and you need not vote for my AAR, just any AAR from each game), or correctly answer periodic trivia questions relating to real history and this AAR, will have the opportunity to design a character which will appear in the story.

    If you've done so, you can send me a private message with your character idea—include details such as name, age, gender, nationality, social rank/station, job/role, notable traits, and a brief biography. I will take that information and incorporate that character into the story. For example, there are narrative elements in the next update which include characters like these:

    Name: Aennelin von Askanien
    Age: early 30s
    Gender: F
    Nationality: Austrian
    Social Rank/Station: Aristocrat/Duchess of Clarence & St. Andrews
    Job/Role: Wife and mother
    Notable Traits: Beautiful, ambitious, determined, manipulative
    Biography: Daughter of Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand II. Married to Edward, Duke of Clarence in 1486 (aged 17) and moved to England. Parents subsequently deposed and executed by Austrian usurper Franz I Zwerger (1488). Petty rivalry with Queen Dowager Christina Christiansdatter af Gryf.

    Name: William Hassard
    Age: Mid/late teens
    Gender: M
    Nationality: Anglo-Irish
    Social Rank/Station: Gentry/Yeoman farmer
    Job/Role: Indentured archer, Army of Ireland
    Notable Traits: 3rd generation farmer and archer, combat rookie
    Biography: Young man experiencing first taste of combat with English forces in Gascony.

    The AAR format will remain history-book, but as we move from the Late Medieval Era into times that are more familiar to me, I feel more comfortable using short narrative elements (like the opening scene with William III, Prince Henry and his paramour in Chapter XVII). You won't be "playing" the character (as in a true interactive AAR), but this is a chance for you, dear readers, to influence the story (and storytelling) in a more subtle way.

    Being an English/British AAR, I know it will be natural to want to craft an 18th century Wolfe/Nelson hero, but for now let's just confine ourselves to the current game era (early 16th century).
    Last edited by Chris Taylor; 22-04-2012 at 19:36.
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  11. #711
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    great idea, when i have more free time and inspiration i'll definitely think up a character

  12. #712
    Hope the revolution hasn't drained your will to play. Good luck; and maybe you can even take a page from dwarf fortress....because losing is fun!

  13. #713
    If I managed to wait for GRRM to finish the fifth book, I will manage wait out the conclusion of this AAR!

  14. #714
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeekim View Post
    If I managed to wait for GRRM to finish the fifth book, I will manage wait out the conclusion of this AAR!
    Sure???

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    Is this still going?
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    If someone wants to know whether this will continue or not, please send a PM to Chris Taylor instead of cluttering this thread. You'll have a much higher chance of getting an answer if you PM him.


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