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Thread: Onze Plaats in de Zon: The Rise of Frederik de Grote (van Holland)

  1. #181
    Part Time Warp aldriq's Avatar
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    So I take the CZP was not against the reintroduction of the Dioceses as long as it can further its segregation agenda?
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  2. #182
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    Alex: You should be able to tell I edit images all the time, right?

    Enewald: Well think of it this way, since the Orange Free State is in the British SoI, the Boer War won't happen, so they are free.

    Aldriq: No, they were very much against it. However the word of His Most Protestant Christian Majesty cannot be questioned, at least as long as King Frederik is said Majesty. You'll find out one of the reasons why he did it next chapter.
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  3. #183
    Second Lieutenant Ricainfier's Avatar
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    How did you annex a single province of a region like with Suez and Balboa? I've been trying to figure that out. Enjoying the AAR. Has King Frederick thought about having a beach palace in Honolulu?

  4. #184
    Captain Mr. Sometimes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricainfier View Post
    How did you annex a single province of a region like with Suez and Balboa? I've been trying to figure that out. Enjoying the AAR. Has King Frederick thought about having a beach palace in Honolulu?
    He gained Balboa and Suez by constructing the Panama and Suez canals.

    Silly Dutch not realising the glory of socialism, still I love this AAR and am eagerly waiting for more.

  5. #185
    Art - Games - History Alexspeed's Avatar
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    Thank you for that election interlude, how fast 5 jears pass...

    Very interresting to see the "Calvinistische Zuil Partij (CZP)" as the successor party of the "The Agricultural Party (Landbouw Partij)" gaining so much power.

    And, yes i am aware you are pretty fit to edit pictures
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  6. #186
    Human Enewald's Avatar
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    soon there will be anarcho-liberals... and COMMIES!

  7. #187
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    Ricainfer: Mr. Sometimes is right, if Balboa and Suez are in your sphere when you construct the Panama or Suez Canals you gain control of those provinces. As for Hawaii, It's firmly in the US SoI, and I don't think it's worth wasting influence points trying to get them out of it. Besides, King Frederik has plenty of nice palace locations to choose from already.

    Mr. Sometimes: Welcome! good to have you along. Traditional Socialism is incompatible with Dutch society; if in control it will wreck the nation. That is not to say that Socialism With Dutch Characteristics will share the same fate.

    Alex: It will be short lived. The surge in popularity was caused by an anti-catholic backlash, and as I intend this to be the only election to be based on religious policy it will most likely not happen again. They will however continue to be a prominent third party faction for years to come.

    Enewald: You'd think they'd be scared off by last time, but no those Anarchists never seem to learn...
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  8. #188
    First Lieutenant Communitarian!'s Avatar
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    Nooooo! Dekker! At least he got a peerage out of the whole thing, but what a crazy election. I can only hope that this coalition will prove more stable than I give it credit... There are too many split lines, it seems like a tightrope of them. Hopefully a thread of Royalism will hold the tapestry together.

    Two thoughts - one, that Socialism with Dutch Characteristics might be the best phrase to come out of an AAR, ever, and two: that a certain fertilizer factory filled image was the very first thing to load, with all text and explanation cut out of my browser. It was both terrifying and awe-inspiring all at once. Great updates, as usual!
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  9. #189
    Back from the dead FlyingDutchie's Avatar
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    So now Jonkheer (squire) or Baron Dekker can put his colonial administration skills to the test again.

    Just one think about the election is a bit odd, even if its Paradox fault not yours. Apparently all Dutch provinces are protestant ingame, while in reality Dutch Brabant and Limburg (three ingame provinces) where and are almost completely catholic. Two of these catholic provinces voted for Groen van Prinsterer! Guess the appeal of verzuiling must be quite the thing.

    Wonder where King Fredericks adventures will take him next.
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  10. #190
    Argentina Delenda Est Tanzhang (譚張)'s Avatar
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    Okay Guys, I really don't have enough material for a five year update as the years 1862-1867 are very uneventful. 1867-1872 are a little better, while the 1872 election update I hope will be the best yet (from there I unpause, as of 1/1/1872). What I might do, is either do a decade long update and then do a '67 election update followed by a '72 one or include the '67 election in the next chapter. What do you guys think?

    Communitarian (1): Oh, it will hold. With parties like the CZP constantly splitting the Liberale vote (even though their ideologies are opposites), one must wonder if the Liberales will EVER win an election.

    Communitarian (2): You'll hear more about that when the Socialists become prominent during the late 60's early 70's. By 1872 they hold a 26% share of the Ridderkamer.

    Communitarian (3): Blame Alex for that pic, how he made it I'm not sure...

    FlyingDutchie (1): Of the provinces won by the CZP: Rotterdam, Eindhoven, Maastricht and Assen have slightly over 5000 Catholic POPs whereas Leeuwarden has slightly over 4000 and Groningen has no Catholics. On the other hand, Rotterdam and Maastricht have over 1000 Sunni Muslims while the other CZP provinces have over 2000 Sunni Muslims (including 1100 aristocrats in Leeuwarden). From a purely game point of view, only Dutch Aristocrats and Capitalists can vote, and ALL Dutch POPs are Protestant. Hence, I've taken a lot of dramatic licence in my elections to overcome some of the games liabilities.

    Also for the record the Catholic minorities in Eindhoven and Maastricht are Flemish, but are greatly outnumbered by Dutch POPs. In Maastricht for example, there are 5000 Flemish compared with 20000 Dutch bureaucrats, 35000 Dutch labourers and 13000 Dutch aristocrats, just to name a few. Hasselt is the reverse however, overwhelmingly Flemish and Catholic with about 5000 Dutch, 1000 Javan and Wallonian and three Cantonese artisans producing luxury furniture . And while were speaking of Cantonese POPs, there are more Flemish people in Macau than Cantonese, Javan, Walloon and Portuguese POPs put together!

    FlyingDutchie (2): When I say Life Peerage, I mean Dekker's official title is now Lord Dekker of someplace in Holland, PNR rather than his old title Eduard Dekker, PNR (whether or not he'll be a Baron I haven't decided yet). Speaking of which, since his old electorate was Amsterdam, do you know of an area in Amsterdam (or Northern Holland) that would be an appropriate Barony or Viscountcy (or maybe Graafdom) for Dekker?
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  11. #191
    Just bumped into this AAR, read the whole thing and I love it! You can count me in

  12. #192
    Art - Games - History Alexspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhang (譚張) View Post
    Communitarian (3): Blame Alex for that pic, how he made it I'm not sure...
    Just a little photoshop magic

    I took your base pic, then i took another one with fertilizer factories and cropped out the fertilizer pic and enlarged it,
    then i erased the produced goods from your pic and put over the erased space the fertilizer pictures. easy-peasy

    I would like the decade long update, and you could summarize the elections in another second interlude update.
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  13. #193
    Back from the dead FlyingDutchie's Avatar
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    Thanks for your explanation, even if having the south protestant is a major flaw from Paradox. In reality almost all pops should be Catholic Dutchmen, with a minority of protestant Dutchmen and a few catholic Flemish.

    About the Dutch peerage. In reality theDutch monarchy has never elevated people to peerage the way the British have done. Thats not saying they didn't have the right or possibility to do so. Dutch peerage knows the following titles: Jonkheer (squire), Baron and count (graaf). Historically the title of count is only held by a few people decending from man made count by Willem III, the stadhouder-king of the 17th century, or decended from the Belgian nobility. In the North is has connotations regarding the old counties that rebelled against Spain during the Dutch revolt. Therefore I guess the king would make Dekker a Baron,and would use the titles of Jonkheer and Baron as rewards, leaving the title of count to the old nobility.
    Dutch peerage doesn't neccesarily add a location to the title, but if you wish to do so Zaandam comes to mind. Its a small city near Amsterdam, but it was the location the VOC built most of their ships. A former VOC-port as Hoorn or Enkhuizen could be fitting too.
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  14. #194
    First Lieutenant Communitarian!'s Avatar
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    It's good to hear that we'll learn more about the growth of the socialist faction; if they've got such impressive numbers by '72, that's something indeed - and even less likelihood of seeing a Liberal government. Update-wise I'd second the decade-long one as long as you'd enjoy writing it; a bonus election special with all the info on politics, scandals, and the usual back-scene wrangling would be pretty cool, too.

    One last thing - are your states experiencing a net immigration? I've had trouble getting anything other than internal migration going in most countries I've played that aren't in the Americas - it seems like you've got a pretty mobile population. I realize it's probably just people from the colonies moving to the mainland, but it's still kind of cool to see.

    Also, Alex - knowing how you did it and that it was easy doesn't remove the fear. Fertilizer! As far as the eye can see!
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  15. #195
    Lt. General scholar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzhang (譚張) View Post
    Aldriq: No, they were very much against it. However the word of His Most Protestant Christian Majesty cannot be questioned, at least as long as King Frederik is said Majesty. You'll find out one of the reasons why he did it next chapter.
    I'm not Aldriq, but I'm looking forward to finding it out.

  16. #196
    Jalayirid Caliph mayorqw's Avatar
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    I love this AAR! It's the best kind of history book, the one where what happened in real life actually plays into the story. Too bad the liberals aren't gonna get a piece of the cake....
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  17. #197
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    I had the next update all written up but I lost it all due to the Forum being busy... I'll rewrite it now so hopefully I'll get the next one posted up before Alex's deadline.

    kanzlooz: Count you in I will then! What country/ideology is your avatar from by the way?

    Alex: thanks for your input, that's what I'll do then.

    FlyingDutchie: I loaded a game from the start just in case some of those Dutch POPs had converted to Protestantism during the game and got the same results. Considering these provinces are roughly two-thirds Catholic in 2010 I would say having them entirely Catholic is a major flaw on Paradox's part. Thanks for the info, Zaandam sounds like a nice enough place, is it part of the Greater Amsterdam electorate (the closest equivalent to Dekker's electorate in-game) In Real Life?

    Communitarian: Roughly 25% of our POPs have Socialist ideology, about the same for Liberal while the conservatives have 40%. It has been a meteoric rise, but with the Socialists splitting the Liberal vote, it's unlikely either party will win an election any time soon.

    As for immigration, we have only had a small trickle of Poles and Germans (both kinds) outside of the colonies. Most of our immigration has come to or from the colonies (eg. Taiwan is 57% Dutch, Cantonese all over the Dutch East Indies, Macau has four times as much Flemish people than Cantonese, etc.)

    Scholar: Personally I didn't think it was all that interesting, but hey what do I know?

    Mayorqw: Thank You! Like I said earlier they really don't have a chance now with the SDP splitting votes. Fortunately for me the conservatives will keep the Liberales out of power, unfortunately for you the reader it does make elections a little boring if the same party keeps winning all the time. I try my best to make the elections more interesting and close than they actually are.
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  18. #198
    Back from the dead FlyingDutchie's Avatar
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    On Dekkers peerage: I must admit that I have no idea which electorate Zaandam belonged to (or which belonged to Amsterdam). These kind of district elections where abolished a long time ago, as the Netherlands have a system of equal representation these days (25 % of the national vote is 25 % of the seats in parliament). Zaandam is pretty close to Amsterdam though, and its historical ties with the Indies just sound fitting for Dekker.
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  19. #199
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    Okay, I'm going to post the next chapter now it fit's in with the contest. Please bear in mind that this chapter is only a work in progress and more content will be added within the next day or two, when I consider it completed I'll let you guys know so please refrain from commenting until then, that way you can comment on the whole chapter, rather than just two or three quarters of it.

    Also, I'd like to thank Veovis for the SCW Propaganda poster I've used in this update. I remember him posting it in Tommy's Carlist AAR and so I decided to use it in this update (spoiler!).
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  20. #200
    Argentina Delenda Est Tanzhang (譚張)'s Avatar
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    The Calm Before The Storm

    Making Amends
    By far the most important issue of the 1862 election had been the Parties Religious Policy. The question on whether or not to reinstitute the Catholic Dioceses had polarised the nation, with the Catholic south largely in favour and the Protestant north largely against. Although those parties against had won the election the question of the Catholic Dioceses wouldn't simply go away, and there was much talk of rumours of a repeat of the 1830 insurrection in the southern provinces, reaching as far away as the Palace in Amsterdam.

    King Frederik was said to be unphased by the prospect of a second Belgian revolt, however the prospect of French Intervention in said revolt was a more pressing concern. France had stayed neutral in the war against Belgium, contrary to the wishes of many French Catholic conservatives, and stayed silent on the execution of the traitor Leopold again contrary to popular Catholic opinion. Unlike 1839 though, France now had an aggressive, interventionist leader in Napoleon III who was keen to project French power overseas to gain popular support at home, and a popular cause so close to home might be just the thing for the struggling power and it's ruler.

    King Frederik was first and foremost a Protestant, but he was also a religious pluralist who had no problem in reintroducing the Catholic Dioceses so long as the Catholic Church recognised the authority of the Dutch Crown in Dutch lands. Such a move would take the wind out of the Catholic Separatists and French Conservatives (and not to mention one of the main platforms of the Liberale Opposition). On the 22nd of January King Frederik met with the Progressive Pope Pius IX in Rome with talks ending on the 27th, with the establishment of the Archdiocese of Utrecht and the reestablishment of 13 other Dioceses. King Frederik became the first Dutch Protestant Monarch to pay an official visit to Rome, he was said to be impressed by the pontiff's liberal and progressive rule.


    Pope Pius IX was the most progressive and liberal Pope in history. During his long reign he ordered the modernisation of the Papal Army along French lines and built Factories and Railways, becoming the first nation east of Hanover to possess rail transportation

    This move caused some unrest at home, mainly from the CZP and it's supporters but this quickly subsided, such was the popularity of the King and the respect his decrees commanded.

    The Partial Union Act of 1862
    The first main act of the Rochussen/van Prinster government came in 1862 with the Partial Union Act of 1862 between the United Kingdom of The Netherlands and the Duchy of Luxembourg. Luxembourg had been in a personal union with The Netherlands since 1815; although ruled by the Dutch Monarch it had it's own military, police, currency, flag and government which controlled internal affairs. Under the Partial Union Act, Luxembourg would lose the right to a locally elected government, the Luxembourgian Franc would be replaced by the Dutch Guilder, it's military and police would be subservient to the Dutch Armed Forces and Luxembourgers would be formally considered Dutch Citizens with the right to serve in the Dutch Armed Forces and (for a very select few) the right to vote in Dutch Elections.

    This was in fact, a very clever ploy by the Royalist Party. The Luxembourger Aristocrats were staunchly Conservative; by extending the vote to Luxembourg the Royalists were practically guaranteeing itself an extra seat at the next election. The Partial Union Act was opposed by the Liberales for this reason, but was approved by the King and thus passed into law on the 7th of October 1862.


    The Passing of the Partial Union Act coincided with the first ever Dutch Regional Trade Fair, the first of many.

    Egyptology and The Quest for the Nile
    Ever since the days of Napoleon, there had been a resurgence of interest in Ancient Egypt in Europe. Nations such as France and Britain sent expeditions to Egypt, hoping to discover the treasures which remain buried under this ancient land.

    The most important of these expeditions in recent times was the Dutch expedition who back in 1855 was given an exclusive permit by the Egyptian government to excavate The Valley of the Kings in Luxor. By 1867 however progress had stalled and funds were beginning to run thin, the Dutch expedition needed something to capture the state's and the people's interest.

    This came when a British Explorer, John Speke, claimed to have discovered an inland sea in the middle of Africa, which he called Lake Victoria after the British Monarch. Speculation by Egyptologists across Europe as to whether this could be the source of the Nile river soon followed, and calls for an expedition soon mounted.


    Conrad Leemans, one of the most eminent Dutch Egyptologists of the age called for a Dutch expedition to find the source of the Nile.

    The First Dutch Expedition was lead by Vice-Admiraal Marius van der Werff, hero of the Battle of Helgoland Bight. His expedition was set to depart from Suez in June when an ominous omen occurred on the night before departure. Excavators working long into the night were said to be on to something big, the tomb of the Pharaoh Smenkhkare or maybe his son. That night a sandstorm hit the Valley suddenly at exactly Midnight, covering the excavation site in sand. The excavators who had been working that night were never seen again and mysteriously, all record of the excavation site was lost. People quickly jumped to conclusions and labeled it as a curse.

    The Marian Expedition as it was called, departed the day after once the sandstorm had subsided, the last time it was seen was a few hours after it left port. Investigators have speculated that the conditions caused by the night sandstorm may have had something to with the expedition's subsequent disappearance, however the curse theory was far more popular with the (technically illegal) Gutter Press.


    The rumour spread like wildfire throughout The Netherlands. To those who believed in it, it was no shock when Marius' Expedition vanished without a trace, never to be seen again...

    David Tasman, Great Great Grandson of the explorer Abel Tasman and Commander in Chief of the Dutch Colonial Army in the East Indies had long aspired to emulating his illustrious ancestor. However he had pursued a career in the army rather than the navy, and while waging wars with Aceh, China, Johor, Portugal, Denmark, Brunei and Bali there was little time for exploration. David had however been getting on in years and after close to forty years service with the Dutch Colonial army he wondered if there was anything left for him to give. When Conrad Leemans called for a second expedition to the Nile in 1871, David Tasman resigned his post and embarked a ship from Batavia to the Port of Suez.

    Although he had no prior sailing experience, his reputation for leadership was well known and he was picked to lead the Second Dutch Expedition to find the source of the Nile (Tasman Expedition). The expedition departed on the 26th of August 1870 and returned with success almost a year later.


    David Tasman followed the source of the Nile from Alexandria in Egypt to the Sudan (White Nile) and Ethiopia (Blue Nile) and meticulously mapped and recorded every inch. David Tasman showed that at the end of the White Nile was a large lake, which he circumnavigated by sea and did further surveys by land. He concurred that this lake was the Lake Victoria described by Speke.

    Tasman's discoveries were one of the most important scientific and geographical of the century. David Tasman wrote about his experiences in a bestselling book and retired to a peaceful life in The Netherlands.

    La Gloriosa: Anarchist Revolution in Spain

    For the last forty years, Spain had been in a state in war and rebellion. The Carlist Wars which were fought to establish the authoritarian Carlos V and VI on the Spainish throne were put down by the Liberals, who supported the young Isabella II. By the 1860's Isabella was in her thirties approaching her forties and grew more and more authoritarian, much to the chagrin of her liberal backers. In 1868, a coalition of Anarchists, Republicans and Liberals (but mainly Anarchists) raised the red and black flag of revolt in Madrid. With the support of the Liberal army, the rebels faced little opposition, and quickly took over the country. Colony after colony defected to the new regime, the Queen was persuaded to leave the country and live in exile in France, but the tidal wave of anarchism was fast and strong and the queen was captured and executed in Madrid before she could make her escape. The rest of the Royal family living in Spain was rounded up and executed by the radical new regime with only the pretender Carlos VII being spared (as the Carlist line had lived in exile in Amsterdam since the days of Carlos V).


    Spain's revolution was unlike anything that had been seen before, unlike the French Revolution which proceeded it this would not be a Republic, but a Radical Dictatorship

    The Anarchists who had led the revolution formed the revolutionary vanguard party, Partido Radical and were known as the Radicals across Europe. As their name suggested, many of the policies espoused by the new regime were radical: Religion was banned outright, it's practice made illegal punishable by death. Stories of Catholics being gunned down as they attended mass, Priests and Nuns executed in cold blood and Churches razed to the ground shocked and horrified the Christian establishment.

    The Radicals weren't just opposed to Catholicism, in 1871 the Radicals invaded the kingdom of Hedjaz and razed the Holy City of Mecca and burned many other sacred Muslim sites. As soon as word reached the Muslim world there were calls for Jihad from Casablanca to Kuala Lumpur, Batavia to Bengal, Timbuktu to Tripoli, Constantinople to Cairo. The Protests were loudest in the British and Dutch Empires, where subjects felt their sovereigns were in the best position to act.

    As the Spanish Radical Army besieged Medina, Muslim aristocrats petitioned in Amsterdam. The Flemish and Walloons cried for vengeance in the name of their Catholic brothers. The Dutch Upper Class was appalled by what they saw as a repeat of the French revolution. With all rival claimants to the Spanish throne wiped out, Infante Carlos VII saw the chance to reestablish himself as the rightful King of Spain. For the first time in a long time, all the citizens of the Dutch Empire regardless of their Religion, Ethnicity or Political Ideology were united in their belief that Spain must be Stopped. Even King Frederik agreed, the time for National Glory was at hand...
    Last edited by Tanzhang (譚張); 16-11-2010 at 04:32.
    Loyal we Began, Loyal we Remain: A History of the British Empire After the Great War
    A New Canadian Kaiserreich AAR for Darkest Hour [KR 1.5]
    Winner of: AARland Choice Awards Q1 2014

    From Eagle to Phoenix: The Rebirth of the Roman Republic
    A New Roman Republic AAR for Europa Universalis IV
    Winner of: WritAAR of the Week: 08/09/2013, Weekly AAR Showcase: 13/10/2013, Best Character Writer of the Week 01/12/2013, AARland Choice Awards: Q3/4 2013

    - I was Fan of the Week: 01/01/2012 and 26/05/2013 and WritAAR of the Year: 2013 ~ Proud recipient of two Kenshin Cookies ~
    - ~ More AARs avaliable at my Inkwell! (硯臺) ~ -

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