Looks like Spain has territories right within your grasp. How silly of them.
Could you also post a screenshot of your states and their populations?
Could you also post a screenshot of your states and their populations?
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You went for Atjeh too? I did exactly the same thing in my first game. I wonder why none of the other GPs want to secure their source of tea.
Great work on achieving great power status. Is there still any possibility of pushing into India without facing the Brits?
How good are your military techs compared to Spain's? I have a feeling they might send some expeditionary forces your way and the last thing you want to see is a fully teched-up army attacking you with guards and gas.
Great work on achieving great power status. Is there still any possibility of pushing into India without facing the Brits?
How good are your military techs compared to Spain's? I have a feeling they might send some expeditionary forces your way and the last thing you want to see is a fully teched-up army attacking you with guards and gas.
Heh, those Spanish... Quite frankly i'm surprised they're in a position to declare war on anybody. Also, forget Afghanistan and invade Iraq instead. 
Dewirix: I invaded Aceh in my first Non-Demo V2 game (as Mexico). The day after I annexed, The Netherlands declared war and sent 27'000 soldiers to invade Mexican Aceh... I didn't have a chance.
Dewirix: I invaded Aceh in my first Non-Demo V2 game (as Mexico). The day after I annexed, The Netherlands declared war and sent 27'000 soldiers to invade Mexican Aceh... I didn't have a chance.
This war should at least be good for the blokes selling camels to the rival armies. For everyone else it looks like sand for breakfast, sand for lunch, sand for tea.
Thanks for the input everyone!
Surely:
"Persian Farrah" is the western half of Afghanistan - surprisingly well-populated!
re India - no, UK and I are right up against each other.
re Spain - no way I know of other than looking at save-game file (which seems ungentlemanly) to find their tech - but check out their military scores:
I'm up against the 11th, 13th, and 14th ranked militaries - gulp!
re Spain - well, they do have a nice big military score. Also note that they have zero industry, which is interesting.
Re Iraq - I don't know, invasion of Iraq - do you think we'd be treated as liberators?
Indeed! I'm going to send an expeditionary force swooping across Nejd, see what it finds - I can enter Nejd, they can't, which is nice
Surely:
"Persian Farrah" is the western half of Afghanistan - surprisingly well-populated!
re India - no, UK and I are right up against each other.
re Spain - no way I know of other than looking at save-game file (which seems ungentlemanly
) to find their tech - but check out their military scores:
I'm up against the 11th, 13th, and 14th ranked militaries - gulp!
Heh, those Spanish... Quite frankly i'm surprised they're in a position to declare war on anybody. Also, forget Afghanistan and invade Iraq instead.
re Spain - well, they do have a nice big military score
. Also note that they have zero industry, which is interesting.Re Iraq - I don't know, invasion of Iraq - do you think we'd be treated as liberators?
Indeed! I'm going to send an expeditionary force swooping across Nejd, see what it finds - I can enter Nejd, they can't, which is nice
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You should not have demanded Malatya from the Turks, because this region is shared (I think) with the Spanish. That must have been what made them DOW you. The AI *loves* wars to complete their regions.
Good luck and godspeed to your armies. Maybe you can try to get Nejd into your SOI, so you can march across their territory and occupy the Hedjaz for war score?
Good luck and godspeed to your armies. Maybe you can try to get Nejd into your SOI, so you can march across their territory and occupy the Hedjaz for war score?
I can only think of your population majority religion as likely explanation for staying conservative...
Good luck holding Spain off, did you build any forts in your new western provinces?
Good luck holding Spain off, did you build any forts in your new western provinces?
Interesting - do you think it's "muslim-specific"? What's the religion like in your Ethiopian situation?
well, yes and no
The yes part - everything gained in the first war, the northwest 'finger' that makes it up to the Black Sea, is fortified to the max. Also, the eastern gains, neighboring the UK, are fortified to the max.
the no part - the most recent gains ("malatya") I chose to build railroads first ("why fear the turk?", I thought) , and the railroads aren't even close to done yet - forts won't be done in time to help in this war.
similarly, the whole 'soft underbelly' of Persia has no forts - I was focusing on the northern and eastern threats. Maybe I'll start building some now
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If your Infamy can stand up to it, you should totally snatch that little Spanish controlled part of the Middle East
Not sure, maybe certain religions foster or hinder plurality? I started with a mix of Coptic Christians, Animists and some Sunnis, then got some Jewish and more Sunni population as I conquered parts of Egypt.
hmm, this makes it sound like it's more number of religions that make the difference (there are only 2 in all of Persia), which makes sense - more religions means more plurality, more plurality means more consciousness. What's your CON rating at? I think we're at roughly similar years.
will if I can! Since they DOWed me, do I get a break on the infamy if I add it as a wargoal?
The game treats military score quite strangely, so you might find that the disparity between you and Spain is not as great as you thought (and might not exist at all).
My first game as Argentina finished in 1936 with Denmark as the second or third greatest military power with a score of well over 1000. Intrigued, I loaded up as them to see what they had, to find that they'd only built about 20 brigades.
My first game as Argentina finished in 1936 with Denmark as the second or third greatest military power with a score of well over 1000. Intrigued, I loaded up as them to see what they had, to find that they'd only built about 20 brigades.
What kind of troops did they have? I'd imagine their navy would consist of a few Dreadnoughts.
True, multiple religions might help plurality and conciousness. The consciousness in my game is 5.46 in 1872.
Just in response to your post in the Experience with 1.2 thread, a little "exploit" I learned playing Persia in 1.1 that I've yet to try in 1.2.
Rebels have my farm! Better go work in the steel mills...
Or: How I learned to love Tehran and stop worrying.
Step 1: Appoint a ruling party with State Capitalism or Planned Economy
Step 2: Imagine all of your Farmers/Laborers would convert to Craftsmen the instant you built a factory in their state. Got that in mind? Good, now build factories accordingly.
Step 3: Subsidise all your factories so they stay open.
Step 4: Stir up the Rebels any way you can (In 1.1 I'd just change the ruling party back and forth constantly (which I imagined represented the Shah going mad and the rebels were loyal subjects concerned that he needed to be forcefully committed to an asylum))
Step 5: Place your troops in the Provinces in which your factories are located.
Step 6: Rebellion breaks out.
Step 7: Let the rebels take all the land in all the states with factories except the provinces you have troops and factories in.
Step 8: Wait patiently. Once rebels seize a province, the RGOs get shut down, forcing all the Farmers/Laborers to seek work in the factories.
Step 9: Once you have your factories filled, crush the rebellion.
Done!
I haven't tried this trick in 1.2 for two reasons. One, you cannot change ruling party willy nilly, so it's harder to create artificial rebellions. Two, rebels are much more timid and loath to take up arms.
Hope this gives you some ideas
Just in response to your post in the Experience with 1.2 thread, a little "exploit" I learned playing Persia in 1.1 that I've yet to try in 1.2.
.....
Hope this gives you some ideas
wow, thanks for the tip! As you say, I don't know if it would work in 1.2, and it seems pretty gamey to me, but thanks for the ideas!
Update coming up soon!
Chapter 7: V1.2 strikes (and 3 wars)
Chapter 7: V1.2 strikes (and 3 wars)
Welcome back! In this chapter we go form 1888 all the way to 1900, and boasts 3 wars, and dealing with V1.2
When we left Persia, we had just been DOWed by Spain (which owns a little piece of Turkey, and the Arabian side of the red coast (Hedjaz)), and its buddy Portugal. Luckily, it's powerful allies of Russia and the UK have bowed out.
I immiediately march my armies into Spanish Turkey, where my westernized, trained, fully organized, well led 40K army attacks the 3K spanish defenders - and barely wins.
The same thing happens a little later in the war, when a 36K stack of mine pounces on 3K leaderless Portugese who wander into Iran.
Ouch! While I'm far stronger than the uncivs around me, I'm still, despite many years of concentrating on it, not nearly up to par with the Europeans. The main issue seems to be morale/tactics. In both battles, my morale steadily dips from 100 to 90 to 80 to ..., while their morale dips from 100 to 99 to 98 to ...., while I inflict barely perceptible casualties - it's as if my troops are firing Nerf bullets! I only win the battles (with my morale at around 30%, as I recall) when the Europeans are in danger of being wiped out - instead, they retreat in good order.
So it seems clear that I need to switch from a "50% industry, 50% military" technology to 100% military for a while - I do so, though it's really too late for this war.
On the war front, I do indeed manage to take the two Turkish provinces from Spain - however in Saudi Arabia, it's a different story, as something like 50K Spanish are there, far too many for me to attack, even if I marched my entire army across the desert to fight them. The only good news is that Nejd, which is in my SOI, let's me enter it and observe the Spaniards, who themselves are prevented from entering Nejd. Chortle.
So, after these intial skirmishes, we stare at each other for a while - though I have taken two provinces, and they zero, the war score is 0, due to a Spanish blockade. When they offer white peace in April 1889, I accept. Well, that was a bit of a disappointment, but it was a useful lesson in how far I am from truly being one of the Big Boys.
IN RELATED NEWS
While this is happening, two other things of some interest happen:
In January 1889 I note that the Brits have built the Suez canal.
In March 1891 another piece gets knocked off the Russian bear, which has been beset by chronic rebellions for something like 40 years now, as Estonia secedes.
THE ATTACK OF VERSION 1.2
So there I am in February 1892 when I fire up the game, and it auto-updates to V1.2. The good news is, the game is still playable! I had read that 1.2 wasn't saved-game compatible, so this is great news. The bad news is, the changes to the technology tree, and perhaps some minor tweaks they made to the save game format, combine to do some damage:
The second third, and fourth are annoying, the first is a crippler, and I immediately change my tech strategy
TECH STRATEGY
Until the 1.2 patch, I had been on an all-military research tear, trying to learn the lessons from the Spanish war - I get military plans (better org) in 1888, iron muzzle-loaded artillery and 'mobilization time tables' in 1889, and breech-loaded rifles in 1890, army decision making (better morale and tactics) in 1892, and finally point defense (better forts and defense) in 1894.
I then switch to a "fix the damage from 1.2" strategy, getting Idealism (+25% RP - still just up to 9 from the pre1.2 17) in March 1897 (note how long it took, even as an level 1 tech), and Introspectionism in March 1898
TWO LITTLE WARS
Although my infamy is now finally down to the point where I could DOW the Ottoman again, they have managed to ally themselves with Russia, so I decide to wait a while and let things calm down (my infamy is still well above 10). I get a little excitement in October 1894 when I get a 'diplomatic incident' with little Sindh, one of the few small Indian states in my SOI, and not the UKs. I happily DOW them, and by February 1895 the war is over with Sindh 'cut down to size'. I could have made a protectorate out of them (and perhaps, in hindsight, should have), but I thought I would rather pay 10 infamy to get a nice Ottoman territory than pay 8 infamy to get Sindh.
The next little war is more annoying, as in March 1895 Spain DOWs Nedj - remember how they had lost my protection as part of the 1.2 upgrade? I grit my teeth and watch as Spain chomps off a big piece.
Spanish gain the area marked with "1"
A BIG WAR
In December 1897 Prussia, of all people, offer an alliance. I accept, thinking that this might deter Russia (who is still allied with the Ottoman) from intervening in my next round against the Ottoman.
In January 1898, I DOW the Ottoman, and the good news is, Russia doesn't answer the Ottoman call. Prussia doesn't answer my call either, but that's a trade I'll take any day - it's just me against the Ottoman.
Once again, I swoop into Turkey, which once again is almost totally undefended. At this point, things Start To Go Wrong:
first, in March 1898, I just happen to notice that....
I'm at war with two countries, not one, and the new one has a rather well-known tricolor flag. Gulp! Looking through the diplomatic log, I see that
France decided to intervene to support the Ottoman. I think this is a change due to improved 1.2 AI, and I must say, while as a Persian emperor I am displeased, as a gamer, I give this two thumbs up - this seems very realistic - a European great power is stepping in to try and keep 'the Sick Man' intact.
The second piece of bad news is that the 'center of gravity' of the Ottoman Empire has now moved far enough west, as I have ripped off chunks of it, that the percentage of it that I conquer when I conquer Turkey is going steadily down! This is made worse by another 1.2 bug fix, which is that when I conquer Syria, which had been rebel-controlled, it doesn't affect the war score
The third piece of bad news is that France blockades me, reducing the war score by 2.
The fourth piece of bad news is that France lands a 50K+ expeditionary force in Iraq, at the mouth of the gulf
I am gathering my forces for a climactic battle against the French expeditionary force
(I'm hoping all those years of military investment will bear fruit), when to my relief in June 1899 France sells out the OE, and another chunk of Turkey now flies the Persian flag
The '1' area is newly Persian, liberated from the Ottoman.
Shortly after the war, I decide that "if you can't conquer 'em any more, SOI 'em", and the Ottoman Empire joins my SOI!
By the way, Comrade Chaos in post 38 informs us that the Persian emblem
isn't a 'winged' lion, it's a lion with a sun behind it. With my technology where it is, I decide this is now a solar-powered sword-wielding lion! Glow and roar, baby, glow and roar!
POLITICAL RUMBLINGS
It's taken 65 years, but it appears the populace is finally starting to get a bit restless:
Suport for 'trinket' pensions is up to 13% (2 above), and the socialist party has a whopping 24% of the upper house (1 above) - still not enough to allow any reforms, however. Also, I'm getting very close to an anarchist rebellion.
Interesting times ahead!
INDUSTRIAL GRUMBLINGS
Throughout this entire period, my capitalists have built exactly zero factories. It's hard to blame them, as my existing factories are averaging less than 50% full - this despite spending a national focus on it for decades. This has caused my industry to go from 6th in the world to 11th over the last 20 years, with more sliding probably to come. I'm at a loss here - I have taxes at the minimum on the middle class, quite low on the lower class - how can I blast these POPs off the farm?
I'll end on this note - next post, hopefully soon, will be a survey of the world and the empire as of 1900.
Chapter 7: V1.2 strikes (and 3 wars)
Welcome back! In this chapter we go form 1888 all the way to 1900, and boasts 3 wars, and dealing with V1.2
When we left Persia, we had just been DOWed by Spain (which owns a little piece of Turkey, and the Arabian side of the red coast (Hedjaz)), and its buddy Portugal. Luckily, it's powerful allies of Russia and the UK have bowed out.
I immiediately march my armies into Spanish Turkey, where my westernized, trained, fully organized, well led 40K army attacks the 3K spanish defenders - and barely wins.
The same thing happens a little later in the war, when a 36K stack of mine pounces on 3K leaderless Portugese who wander into Iran.
Ouch! While I'm far stronger than the uncivs around me, I'm still, despite many years of concentrating on it, not nearly up to par with the Europeans. The main issue seems to be morale/tactics. In both battles, my morale steadily dips from 100 to 90 to 80 to ..., while their morale dips from 100 to 99 to 98 to ...., while I inflict barely perceptible casualties - it's as if my troops are firing Nerf bullets! I only win the battles (with my morale at around 30%, as I recall) when the Europeans are in danger of being wiped out - instead, they retreat in good order.
So it seems clear that I need to switch from a "50% industry, 50% military" technology to 100% military for a while - I do so, though it's really too late for this war.
On the war front, I do indeed manage to take the two Turkish provinces from Spain - however in Saudi Arabia, it's a different story, as something like 50K Spanish are there, far too many for me to attack, even if I marched my entire army across the desert to fight them. The only good news is that Nejd, which is in my SOI, let's me enter it and observe the Spaniards, who themselves are prevented from entering Nejd. Chortle.
So, after these intial skirmishes, we stare at each other for a while - though I have taken two provinces, and they zero, the war score is 0, due to a Spanish blockade. When they offer white peace in April 1889, I accept. Well, that was a bit of a disappointment, but it was a useful lesson in how far I am from truly being one of the Big Boys.
IN RELATED NEWS
While this is happening, two other things of some interest happen:
In January 1889 I note that the Brits have built the Suez canal.
In March 1891 another piece gets knocked off the Russian bear, which has been beset by chronic rebellions for something like 40 years now, as Estonia secedes.
THE ATTACK OF VERSION 1.2
So there I am in February 1892 when I fire up the game, and it auto-updates to V1.2. The good news is, the game is still playable! I had read that 1.2 wasn't saved-game compatible, so this is great news. The bad news is, the changes to the technology tree, and perhaps some minor tweaks they made to the save game format, combine to do some damage:
- my RP plunge from 17.93 to 7.57 - OUCH! I think this is because they've moved a lot of the RP-enhancing tech into the Culture tree.
- my mobilization size drops from 34 to 20. Odd - not a biggie.
- I somehow lose my SOI and military access agreement with Nejd. Double odd.
- my second national focus is wedged - the game has somehow conflated my national focus with an Ottoman national focus (doing something in the Aegean islands), yet won't let me remove it.
The second third, and fourth are annoying, the first is a crippler, and I immediately change my tech strategy
TECH STRATEGY
Until the 1.2 patch, I had been on an all-military research tear, trying to learn the lessons from the Spanish war - I get military plans (better org) in 1888, iron muzzle-loaded artillery and 'mobilization time tables' in 1889, and breech-loaded rifles in 1890, army decision making (better morale and tactics) in 1892, and finally point defense (better forts and defense) in 1894.
I then switch to a "fix the damage from 1.2" strategy, getting Idealism (+25% RP - still just up to 9 from the pre1.2 17) in March 1897 (note how long it took, even as an level 1 tech), and Introspectionism in March 1898
TWO LITTLE WARS
Although my infamy is now finally down to the point where I could DOW the Ottoman again, they have managed to ally themselves with Russia, so I decide to wait a while and let things calm down (my infamy is still well above 10). I get a little excitement in October 1894 when I get a 'diplomatic incident' with little Sindh, one of the few small Indian states in my SOI, and not the UKs. I happily DOW them, and by February 1895 the war is over with Sindh 'cut down to size'. I could have made a protectorate out of them (and perhaps, in hindsight, should have), but I thought I would rather pay 10 infamy to get a nice Ottoman territory than pay 8 infamy to get Sindh.
The next little war is more annoying, as in March 1895 Spain DOWs Nedj - remember how they had lost my protection as part of the 1.2 upgrade? I grit my teeth and watch as Spain chomps off a big piece.
Spanish gain the area marked with "1"
A BIG WAR
In December 1897 Prussia, of all people, offer an alliance. I accept, thinking that this might deter Russia (who is still allied with the Ottoman) from intervening in my next round against the Ottoman.
In January 1898, I DOW the Ottoman, and the good news is, Russia doesn't answer the Ottoman call. Prussia doesn't answer my call either, but that's a trade I'll take any day - it's just me against the Ottoman.
Once again, I swoop into Turkey, which once again is almost totally undefended. At this point, things Start To Go Wrong:
first, in March 1898, I just happen to notice that....
I'm at war with two countries, not one, and the new one has a rather well-known tricolor flag. Gulp! Looking through the diplomatic log, I see that
France decided to intervene to support the Ottoman. I think this is a change due to improved 1.2 AI, and I must say, while as a Persian emperor I am displeased, as a gamer, I give this two thumbs up - this seems very realistic - a European great power is stepping in to try and keep 'the Sick Man' intact.
The second piece of bad news is that the 'center of gravity' of the Ottoman Empire has now moved far enough west, as I have ripped off chunks of it, that the percentage of it that I conquer when I conquer Turkey is going steadily down! This is made worse by another 1.2 bug fix, which is that when I conquer Syria, which had been rebel-controlled, it doesn't affect the war score
The third piece of bad news is that France blockades me, reducing the war score by 2.
The fourth piece of bad news is that France lands a 50K+ expeditionary force in Iraq, at the mouth of the gulf
I am gathering my forces for a climactic battle against the French expeditionary force
(I'm hoping all those years of military investment will bear fruit), when to my relief in June 1899 France sells out the OE, and another chunk of Turkey now flies the Persian flag
The '1' area is newly Persian, liberated from the Ottoman.
Shortly after the war, I decide that "if you can't conquer 'em any more, SOI 'em", and the Ottoman Empire joins my SOI!
By the way, Comrade Chaos in post 38 informs us that the Persian emblem
isn't a 'winged' lion, it's a lion with a sun behind it. With my technology where it is, I decide this is now a solar-powered sword-wielding lion! Glow and roar, baby, glow and roar!
POLITICAL RUMBLINGS
It's taken 65 years, but it appears the populace is finally starting to get a bit restless:
Suport for 'trinket' pensions is up to 13% (2 above), and the socialist party has a whopping 24% of the upper house (1 above) - still not enough to allow any reforms, however. Also, I'm getting very close to an anarchist rebellion.
Interesting times ahead!
INDUSTRIAL GRUMBLINGS
Throughout this entire period, my capitalists have built exactly zero factories. It's hard to blame them, as my existing factories are averaging less than 50% full - this despite spending a national focus on it for decades. This has caused my industry to go from 6th in the world to 11th over the last 20 years, with more sliding probably to come. I'm at a loss here - I have taxes at the minimum on the middle class, quite low on the lower class - how can I blast these POPs off the farm?
I'll end on this note - next post, hopefully soon, will be a survey of the world and the empire as of 1900.
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Chapter 8: 1900
Chapter 8: 1900
It's now almost exactly 2/3 of the way through the game, and the dawn of a new century, so I thought I'd spend a post doing a walkthrough of the state of the world, the middle east, and persia.
THE WORLD
Nothing too huge has changed - France (1) and Portugal (2) have started to seriously colonize Africa, while China (3) has been expanding nicely.
Rebellions have quieted down, though Russia is still plagued by them:
I am ranked #7, but in danger of falling out of GP status if China westernizes, or of my industry continues to stagnate:
THE MIDDLE EAST
As you can see, Persia has grown quite nicely. In other things of note, (1) the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies owns Jordan, (2) the Suez canal has been built by the UK, (3) Spain owns a little corner of Turkey, and (4) China has been expanding into the power vacuum left by decades of Russian revolts, chewing through Bokhara and Kokand.
PERSIA
The top 'strip', and the budget screen:
Army tech:
Navy tech:
Commerce tech:
Cultural tech:
Industrial tech:
The political screen:
The pop pie charts:
The diplomatic situation:
Infamy is still at 18, sigh.
I have 5 CB, with two against me:
I am very sadly lacking in clerks:
Cement, wine, and liquor are good money makers: canned food and fabric, money sinks:
SUMMING UP
Summing up, domestically I have three big issues:
Internationally I'm in a bit of a box - my navy technology and size is 50 years behind the leaders, so I think I'm largely limited to what I can do by land. To the West I can't do much more without hitting Austria, to the East I'm right up against the UK. That leaves the North (am I crazy to think about attacking Russia?), and to the Southwest I might be able to pick off Jordan and maybe even Egypt.
Inputs welcomed!
Chapter 8: 1900
It's now almost exactly 2/3 of the way through the game, and the dawn of a new century, so I thought I'd spend a post doing a walkthrough of the state of the world, the middle east, and persia.
THE WORLD
Nothing too huge has changed - France (1) and Portugal (2) have started to seriously colonize Africa, while China (3) has been expanding nicely.
Rebellions have quieted down, though Russia is still plagued by them:
I am ranked #7, but in danger of falling out of GP status if China westernizes, or of my industry continues to stagnate:
THE MIDDLE EAST
As you can see, Persia has grown quite nicely
. In other things of note, (1) the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies owns Jordan, (2) the Suez canal has been built by the UK, (3) Spain owns a little corner of Turkey, and (4) China has been expanding into the power vacuum left by decades of Russian revolts, chewing through Bokhara and Kokand.PERSIA
The top 'strip', and the budget screen:
Army tech:
Navy tech:
Commerce tech:
Cultural tech:
Industrial tech:
The political screen:
The pop pie charts:
The diplomatic situation:
Infamy is still at 18, sigh.
I have 5 CB, with two against me:
I am very sadly lacking in clerks:
Cement, wine, and liquor are good money makers: canned food and fabric, money sinks:
SUMMING UP
Summing up, domestically I have three big issues:
- How to blast POPs off the farms and into factories
- How to restore my RPs back to their pre-1.2 glory
- What is probably an upcoming wave of discontent - after 64 years of placidity, people are starting to get restless
Internationally I'm in a bit of a box - my navy technology and size is 50 years behind the leaders, so I think I'm largely limited to what I can do by land. To the West I can't do much more without hitting Austria, to the East I'm right up against the UK. That leaves the North (am I crazy to think about attacking Russia?), and to the Southwest I might be able to pick off Jordan and maybe even Egypt.
Inputs welcomed!