Well in any case the net result of that modifier is to increase your total income and to reduce the proportion of your income that you can divert into cash, so it's a great decision from a tech point of view.
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
(This update is actually from 1604, not 1600, because that was when my closest save was from. The next update will resume in 1600.)
China:
The world:
Tech penalties:
(Sorry for the white border. Paint decided to be weird.)
China:
The world:
Tech penalties:
(Sorry for the white border. Paint decided to be weird.)
The new century begins with the Unhappiness Among The Artisans event, a free +2 Free Subjects move. Meanwhile, I am beginning to invest heavily in infrastructure, funding my projects by periodic requisitions from the powerful commercial faction (whose mood is lowered by the requests, but promptly raised again by infrastructure construction).
Infrastructure is a very complicated subject in MMU, and one on which my notes are not really adequate. I hope to go into the matter in detail in a subsequent AAR.
Meanwhile,
I got lucky here - this was literally the first year in which the event could have fired. I had originally planned to spend the seventeenth century expanding into Southeast Asia and Korea, but these plans go on the back burner now, as war would mean the loss of the lucrative colonies I can now establish in the Philippines and Indonesia. I promptly send out the Land Expedition at the head of 6k cavalry on antiquated transports, in the hope that this will be enough to deal with natives. The understandable reluctance of the Indonesian minors to grant me military access slows down the process a little, but, by the time the Land Expedition "dies" (the game treats it as a general), I have uncovered all the unsettled Indonesian and Philippine provinces, in addition to the wasteland of Western Australia. I don't bother with Siberia, since those provinces will be "explored" as I establish colonies next to them.
Here's a map (1620) of the newly explored lands, with my first couple of colonies.
You receive this modifier in MMU when you accept one of the various exploration events.
While all this is going on, in 1604,
This was already taken into account in the modernization report. My tech speed is still 45% behind Europe, even after spending half the game modernizing. I'm badly behind at this point and struggling to catch up.
1604 also brings a new National Idea. I pick Naval Provisioning, to ensure that the newly-discovered provinces are within range.
1605 brings the settlement of Tagaloan in the Philippines.
In 1608, I move a slider towards Naval. I could get rid of a 10% penalty faster by moving towards Free Market, but not by much, and the move towards Naval is actually useful - it increases my Trade Efficiency, which is accounting for an increasing percentage of my income.
In 1609, another nomadic province sedentarizes completely. This causes the last Controlling Nomadic Plains penalty to disappear. The same year, Ternate in Indonesia is settled. It becomes a Penal Colony for the increased growth rate:
Infrastructure is a very complicated subject in MMU, and one on which my notes are not really adequate. I hope to go into the matter in detail in a subsequent AAR.
Meanwhile,
I got lucky here - this was literally the first year in which the event could have fired. I had originally planned to spend the seventeenth century expanding into Southeast Asia and Korea, but these plans go on the back burner now, as war would mean the loss of the lucrative colonies I can now establish in the Philippines and Indonesia. I promptly send out the Land Expedition at the head of 6k cavalry on antiquated transports, in the hope that this will be enough to deal with natives. The understandable reluctance of the Indonesian minors to grant me military access slows down the process a little, but, by the time the Land Expedition "dies" (the game treats it as a general), I have uncovered all the unsettled Indonesian and Philippine provinces, in addition to the wasteland of Western Australia. I don't bother with Siberia, since those provinces will be "explored" as I establish colonies next to them.
Here's a map (1620) of the newly explored lands, with my first couple of colonies.
You receive this modifier in MMU when you accept one of the various exploration events.
While all this is going on, in 1604,
This was already taken into account in the modernization report. My tech speed is still 45% behind Europe, even after spending half the game modernizing. I'm badly behind at this point and struggling to catch up.
1604 also brings a new National Idea. I pick Naval Provisioning, to ensure that the newly-discovered provinces are within range.
1605 brings the settlement of Tagaloan in the Philippines.
In 1608, I move a slider towards Naval. I could get rid of a 10% penalty faster by moving towards Free Market, but not by much, and the move towards Naval is actually useful - it increases my Trade Efficiency, which is accounting for an increasing percentage of my income.
In 1609, another nomadic province sedentarizes completely. This causes the last Controlling Nomadic Plains penalty to disappear. The same year, Ternate in Indonesia is settled. It becomes a Penal Colony for the increased growth rate:
In 1610, I choose to adopt the Protection of Our Merchants decision.
It's a no-brainer for a country like Qing - with no trade ideas, I'm not likely to be competing abroad in the near future anyway. I'm not sure if it makes as much sense for a European nation with access to Trade Leagues.
1611 brings a mysterious plague in Tagaloan (reduces population by 50), and in 1611 the Ternate natives steal arms from my settlers, increasing their hostility and ferocity. The same year, we're hit by the Smugglers Dominating event. I don't have to cash to pay out at the moment, so I accept the 10% TE and tax loss for the next decade. More happily, the next year, Tagaloan begins to produce a valuable resource - palm oil. Of course, it's very unusual for colonies in that region to produce anything that isn't highly valuable.
In 1613, I establish a colony in Taiwan.
I've been continuing to invest in reducing the nomadic lifestyle of the tribal North, so the next decade brings a slew of provinces relinquishing the last traces of their nomadic past: Hinggan (1615), Ulunchaab (1618), and Jasagdu (the former capital) in 1620. I won't bother to report on these events in future.
1620 also brings a slider move Innovative. This leads to a decline in the power of the Clergy faction from Influential to Moderate. The same thing happens to the Aristocratic faction the same year. This delights me, as the Aristocrats are notoriously difficult to satisfy.
Finally, I receive a positive event:
I make use of this stability increase to change my form of government:
I nearly always adopt Administrative Republic in my games - it's just incomparably stronger than any possible alternative.
It's a no-brainer for a country like Qing - with no trade ideas, I'm not likely to be competing abroad in the near future anyway. I'm not sure if it makes as much sense for a European nation with access to Trade Leagues.
1611 brings a mysterious plague in Tagaloan (reduces population by 50), and in 1611 the Ternate natives steal arms from my settlers, increasing their hostility and ferocity. The same year, we're hit by the Smugglers Dominating event. I don't have to cash to pay out at the moment, so I accept the 10% TE and tax loss for the next decade. More happily, the next year, Tagaloan begins to produce a valuable resource - palm oil. Of course, it's very unusual for colonies in that region to produce anything that isn't highly valuable.
In 1613, I establish a colony in Taiwan.
I've been continuing to invest in reducing the nomadic lifestyle of the tribal North, so the next decade brings a slew of provinces relinquishing the last traces of their nomadic past: Hinggan (1615), Ulunchaab (1618), and Jasagdu (the former capital) in 1620. I won't bother to report on these events in future.
1620 also brings a slider move Innovative. This leads to a decline in the power of the Clergy faction from Influential to Moderate. The same thing happens to the Aristocratic faction the same year. This delights me, as the Aristocrats are notoriously difficult to satisfy.
Finally, I receive a positive event:
I make use of this stability increase to change my form of government:
I nearly always adopt Administrative Republic in my games - it's just incomparably stronger than any possible alternative.
Looks like those extra AE ideas may not have been a bad idea, there's a surprisingly large number of provinces in SE asia to colonise. Do you have any particular reason that you shifted to a republic apart from not having to deal with low legitimacy heirs?
And regency councils. And succession wars. And the ability to pick your own ruler. And higher AE.
There are just a ton of upsides to picking Administrative Republic, and no real downsides.
There are just a ton of upsides to picking Administrative Republic, and no real downsides.
Qing colonising? I didn't expect this. It can cost a bit initially but it may become very profitable in the future and I don't see much competition in the region. The Portuguese do show up sometimes there but even if they will, they won't pose much threat, will they? The islands in the region are indeed full of valuable recources but at times rice or fish happen.
Qing republic? Peoples' one?
Are you, in the long run, going to give a constitutional republic a try? (And grit your teeth at your silly Parliament? )
Qing republic? Peoples' one?
Are you, in the long run, going to give a constitutional republic a try? (And grit your teeth at your silly Parliament? )
As I think I said the last time you tried this, this is an entertaining, skillful AAR. What are your goals for China now?
This AAR inspired me to start my own qing game, starting as the mongol khanate. I was able to conquer china all the way to the south, but then I just stopped with the game... I still have the save so I could re-continue, so we'll see.
I found playing as the mongols to be quite the balancing act: if you modernize too quickly, you lose the nomadic military modifiers and can't shred through the ming armies; if you modernize too late, then you'll be woefully behind in tech (no way around that, really), to say nothing of the decades spent building stability back up. Colonizing the south really is a great way to go, the provinces are mostly quite lucrative. I'm curious about whether the russians will expand to the pacific, and what that might mean for you.
I rarely adopt republican governments myself (it's good to be the king!) but that's a mere quibble. You've done very, very well.
I found playing as the mongols to be quite the balancing act: if you modernize too quickly, you lose the nomadic military modifiers and can't shred through the ming armies; if you modernize too late, then you'll be woefully behind in tech (no way around that, really), to say nothing of the decades spent building stability back up. Colonizing the south really is a great way to go, the provinces are mostly quite lucrative. I'm curious about whether the russians will expand to the pacific, and what that might mean for you.
I rarely adopt republican governments myself (it's good to be the king!) but that's a mere quibble. You've done very, very well.
Last edited:
Thanks for the comments!
Gabor: I tried Constitutional Republic for the first time in this game, found myself at -3 stability within two years and reloaded. Sorry about that.
Twinxor: My goal is to catch up technologically with Europe. No real goals for conquest, since colonization is so much more lucrative.
Spuzzter: Awesome! I'd love to hear more about your game. And yeah, colonizing the Pacific is always worth it if you can, but I was very lucky to get that explorer.
Gabor: I tried Constitutional Republic for the first time in this game, found myself at -3 stability within two years and reloaded. Sorry about that.
Twinxor: My goal is to catch up technologically with Europe. No real goals for conquest, since colonization is so much more lucrative.
Spuzzter: Awesome! I'd love to hear more about your game. And yeah, colonizing the Pacific is always worth it if you can, but I was very lucky to get that explorer.
1620 is a banner year - I completely eliminate one of the three tech penalties.
This brings me to -1 stability, so I expel the foreign missionaries the next year for the free stab point. In 1623, Tagaloan becomes self-sustaining. The same year, Taiwan starts producing palm oil - not as good as, say, sandalwood, but still very worthwhile.
1627 brings a free stab point by event, bringing me back to +2 stability. The next year, an adviser event brings me to +3.
The same year, I receive the chance to set my colonial policy.
I pick Trade Supremacy, which gives very useful economic benefits to overseas colonies (including, most importantly, a significantly boosted population growth rate), and boosts domestic trade income. The trade-off is a minor military disadvantage (reduced naval forcelimits and manpower), which, since I'm not planning on fighting a war any time soon, is not that big a deal. The other choice would have been Extractive Prerogative, which would have given me free colonists but is less advantageous economically.
This brings me to -1 stability, so I expel the foreign missionaries the next year for the free stab point. In 1623, Tagaloan becomes self-sustaining. The same year, Taiwan starts producing palm oil - not as good as, say, sandalwood, but still very worthwhile.
1627 brings a free stab point by event, bringing me back to +2 stability. The next year, an adviser event brings me to +3.
The same year, I receive the chance to set my colonial policy.
I pick Trade Supremacy, which gives very useful economic benefits to overseas colonies (including, most importantly, a significantly boosted population growth rate), and boosts domestic trade income. The trade-off is a minor military disadvantage (reduced naval forcelimits and manpower), which, since I'm not planning on fighting a war any time soon, is not that big a deal. The other choice would have been Extractive Prerogative, which would have given me free colonists but is less advantageous economically.
The next year, Tagaloan cores, extending my colonization range to the whole newly discovered region. The same year, my ruler dies. I consistently pick the Administrative choice in elections to ensure the ability to construct new trade and production buildings. It looks like this:
1631 brings a Free Subjects slider move. It costs me 10 prestige. The same year, I get the Statesman Gains Power event again, and elect to fire him rather than decentralize again. The next year, my ruler dies and I get a 7/7/8 monarch in the ensuing election.
During this period, I'm aggressively constructing new buildings, using the income from my powerful commercial faction. If you have the right adviser, content or delighted factions are willing to fork over some cash at the cost of prestige and a hit to your relations with the faction. Since your relations with the commercial faction improve every time you construct a trade or production building, this is essentially a perpetual motion machine for money.
This is what a delighted powerful commercial faction looks like, by the way:
Well worth having, as you can see.
1633 brings the Naval Research Wrong! event. I choose to take the tech loss rather than the stability hit.
In 1635, I implement the Limited Coastal Defense Plan, which increases defenses against piracy:
I like to be quite aggressive in my fight against pirates, since most permanent anti-pirate measures only hurt tax income, which is quite minor in Magna Mundi compared to production and trade.
(For non-MMU players, Magna Mundi has its own piracy system. In addition to coastal spawns, you get province modifiers representing the level of smuggling and piracy in each coastal province. These tend to hurt trade and tax income and raise revolt risk. There are many factors that determine how severe this form of piracy becomes, and most of the measures that players can take have drawbacks of their own, generally in the form of a percentage tax reduction.)
In 1636, the country's intellectuals get annoyed with me:
I'm not really sure why that happened, but I think that trade buildings piss them off for some reason.
1631 brings a Free Subjects slider move. It costs me 10 prestige. The same year, I get the Statesman Gains Power event again, and elect to fire him rather than decentralize again. The next year, my ruler dies and I get a 7/7/8 monarch in the ensuing election.
During this period, I'm aggressively constructing new buildings, using the income from my powerful commercial faction. If you have the right adviser, content or delighted factions are willing to fork over some cash at the cost of prestige and a hit to your relations with the faction. Since your relations with the commercial faction improve every time you construct a trade or production building, this is essentially a perpetual motion machine for money.
This is what a delighted powerful commercial faction looks like, by the way:
Well worth having, as you can see.
1633 brings the Naval Research Wrong! event. I choose to take the tech loss rather than the stability hit.
In 1635, I implement the Limited Coastal Defense Plan, which increases defenses against piracy:
I like to be quite aggressive in my fight against pirates, since most permanent anti-pirate measures only hurt tax income, which is quite minor in Magna Mundi compared to production and trade.
(For non-MMU players, Magna Mundi has its own piracy system. In addition to coastal spawns, you get province modifiers representing the level of smuggling and piracy in each coastal province. These tend to hurt trade and tax income and raise revolt risk. There are many factors that determine how severe this form of piracy becomes, and most of the measures that players can take have drawbacks of their own, generally in the form of a percentage tax reduction.)
In 1636, the country's intellectuals get annoyed with me:
I'm not really sure why that happened, but I think that trade buildings piss them off for some reason.
I believe that the Intellectual faction has no issue with trade buildings but they do slightly dislike you asking the commercial faction for cash, so if you're enacting that decision every 6 months then they become angry.
