Would changing the "Qing" line of that to "NOT = { MNG = {controls = 695 } }" work? (The intent is to make the event fire if Ming looses Beijing to anyone.)
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Would changing the "Qing" line of that to "NOT = { MNG = {controls = 695 } }" work? (The intent is to make the event fire if Ming looses Beijing to anyone.)
While all the exciting stuff was going on, I obtained Government 8 and my first open idea slot. The Oirats start with three military ideas, so a civilian one was definitely overdue. I picked Church Attendance Duty, which offers a very nice 10% bonus to AE for traditionalist nations (which I was), plus the biggest percentage decrease in stability costs. The first slider move (and the next few) was centralization, since the administration problem was the biggest that I faced, and it would also help me modernize. (The last innovative penalty requires +3 innovative and, I think, +1 centralization as one of the options to get rid of it. I started with a 25% penalty in that area, so it was hardly a priority compared to the other massive penalties, but modernization is something that needs to be planned centuries in advance if you start off as badly as the Oirats do.)
The provinces I took in the peace settlement were completely useless to me, but were designed to force Ming to move their capital, which they did. (I tried to alter the code so that the event which is supposed to move their capital would fire when it was Oirat-occupied, but either I am pants at writing code or they rejected the option to move). In any case, I would try to acquire Shuntian (Beijing) in the next war to speed up modernization. (The nomadic tech penalties depend partially on the nomadic level of provinces neighboring the capital).
To counterbalance the acquisition of worthless sedentary, wrong-culture-group, wrong-religion provinces, the Regency Council decided to sell the bulk of our actual core provinces to the Uzbeks, presumably because they lost a bet.
Besides Shuntian, next on the Qing-forming agenda was the conquest of Haixi, the Manchu capital, which is required to unite the tribes. Being a capital, it could only be acquired once the two neighboring provinces had been annexed. For the time being, however, the Manchu were my allies, and I decided to leave them that way. They would provide a useful counterweight to Korea, as well as being a possible source of war subsidies during the next invasion of Ming.
The provinces I took in the peace settlement were completely useless to me, but were designed to force Ming to move their capital, which they did. (I tried to alter the code so that the event which is supposed to move their capital would fire when it was Oirat-occupied, but either I am pants at writing code or they rejected the option to move). In any case, I would try to acquire Shuntian (Beijing) in the next war to speed up modernization. (The nomadic tech penalties depend partially on the nomadic level of provinces neighboring the capital).
To counterbalance the acquisition of worthless sedentary, wrong-culture-group, wrong-religion provinces, the Regency Council decided to sell the bulk of our actual core provinces to the Uzbeks, presumably because they lost a bet.
Besides Shuntian, next on the Qing-forming agenda was the conquest of Haixi, the Manchu capital, which is required to unite the tribes. Being a capital, it could only be acquired once the two neighboring provinces had been annexed. For the time being, however, the Manchu were my allies, and I decided to leave them that way. They would provide a useful counterweight to Korea, as well as being a possible source of war subsidies during the next invasion of Ming.
The regency council, combined with the war exhaustion from the last war (even with three military ideas, you accumulate WE quickly when you have administrative efficiency problems), means that I am forced into inactivity for some time. The only thing worth reporting is that my erstwhile allies, the Mongol Khanate, who broke away from our PU when my ruler died, agree to exchange a Chinese province for a contiguous one. I readily agree – the province I lose is more valuable for the time being, since I earn nothing at all from Chinese provinces as yet, but one has to balance that against the fact that the Chinese province will be far more valuable once I form the Qing. 1468 finally brings a change in the situation:
Yes, you get a tribal succession crisis when a regency council “dies.” The next year brings a free Free Subjects move, vindicating my decision to ignore the sliders needed to modernize on the socioeconomic scale for the time being.
My next year has enough administrative skill for this to happen:
Our very first modernization, bringing us all the way from 275% to 175% tech costs. For those of you thinking about playing along at home, this first modernization, from Horse Nomads to Semi-Nomadic, requires only that the nomadic level of the capital be, if memory serves me correctly, 8 (that is, Highly Nomadic, but on the verge of dropping to Moderately Nomadic). There are also moderate slider requirements which are easy to obtain. Subsequent modernization will be harder to obtain.
Modernizing gets us this lovely modifier:
This modifier has several degrees of severity, which vary based on the ratio of nomadic to non-nomadic provinces that we control. The bonus to cavalry costs is nice, but, on balance, this is a severe handicap we want to lose as soon as possible.
Yes, you get a tribal succession crisis when a regency council “dies.” The next year brings a free Free Subjects move, vindicating my decision to ignore the sliders needed to modernize on the socioeconomic scale for the time being.
My next year has enough administrative skill for this to happen:
Our very first modernization, bringing us all the way from 275% to 175% tech costs. For those of you thinking about playing along at home, this first modernization, from Horse Nomads to Semi-Nomadic, requires only that the nomadic level of the capital be, if memory serves me correctly, 8 (that is, Highly Nomadic, but on the verge of dropping to Moderately Nomadic). There are also moderate slider requirements which are easy to obtain. Subsequent modernization will be harder to obtain.
Modernizing gets us this lovely modifier:
This modifier has several degrees of severity, which vary based on the ratio of nomadic to non-nomadic provinces that we control. The bonus to cavalry costs is nice, but, on balance, this is a severe handicap we want to lose as soon as possible.
Interesting as always - can you do a map showing the provinces you're trading and why? I'm struggling to get my head around exactly what you're doing there.
It's an event. When a nation has two non-contiguous provinces, sometimes they will offer to trade provinces. I'll put up a map soon to show what happened.
The only edit I made was my unsuccessful attempt to get Ming to move their capital. As it happened, they ultimately moved it for unrelated reasons, after I took all the neighboring provinces in the first war.
The only edit I made was my unsuccessful attempt to get Ming to move their capital. As it happened, they ultimately moved it for unrelated reasons, after I took all the neighboring provinces in the first war.
Red is the province trade with the Mongols. They took the southernmost of the two provinces in our war with Ming, and traded it for the more northern one because it was contiguous.
Yellow represents other provinces taken from Ming.
Black is provinces sold to the Uzbeks. Provinces are not an asset when you have an overwhelmed administration.
White represents provinces that revolted and joined Chagatai during the Ming war and the succession crisis. I could probably have kept them, but I wanted to get rid of them anyway. I was making no money from them and never would.
1472, and the living is easy.
I would have liked to recover a little more, but tribal nations in MMU have rebel-spawning events that fire whenever they're below 1 WE and have no active truces. So a cautious strategy is out of the question.
If you're curious as to why I keep winning these wars with inferior forces, this is why:
Quite honestly, when you're a tribal nation with three military ideas fighting a non-tribal nation with none, it takes skill to lose. The only moderately interesting thing I did was employ a small stack to travel around in their territory, destroy fledgling units. Once Ming was weak enough, Tibet promptly dogpiled them.
While all this was going on, an event fired (Merchant Fractures) that gave me a free Market Economy move. You will remember that we need Market Economy and Naval to get rid of all the closed-society-related penalties.
I contented myself with their former capital in the peace treaty, as I have been getting a succession of monarchs whose diplomatic skill appears to indicate that they graduated from the Throw Many Rocks school of diplomacy.
I would have liked to recover a little more, but tribal nations in MMU have rebel-spawning events that fire whenever they're below 1 WE and have no active truces. So a cautious strategy is out of the question.
If you're curious as to why I keep winning these wars with inferior forces, this is why:
Quite honestly, when you're a tribal nation with three military ideas fighting a non-tribal nation with none, it takes skill to lose. The only moderately interesting thing I did was employ a small stack to travel around in their territory, destroy fledgling units. Once Ming was weak enough, Tibet promptly dogpiled them.
While all this was going on, an event fired (Merchant Fractures) that gave me a free Market Economy move. You will remember that we need Market Economy and Naval to get rid of all the closed-society-related penalties.
I contented myself with their former capital in the peace treaty, as I have been getting a succession of monarchs whose diplomatic skill appears to indicate that they graduated from the Throw Many Rocks school of diplomacy.
Thanks for the much needed map update!
Morea, Oirats... you make it look so easy, Parcae
Morea, Oirats... you make it look so easy, Parcae
Seconded on thanks for the map - it's a lot clearer now what you did there.
Sounds as if you are making some decent progress in opening up and modernising.
Sounds as if you are making some decent progress in opening up and modernising.
Thanks for the kind comments, guys.
Modernization is going to take a long time yet - it's not a one-and-done deal like in vanilla. For reference, here's a 1477 picture showing my current sliders:
As you can tell from my earlier explanation of modernization, quite a lot remains to be done. In fact, I don't expect to be completely done for centuries yet.
1477 brings war with the Manchu. I don't yet have a monarch capable of forming Qing (it takes 7 mil), so my plan is to complete all the territorial prerequisites in advance so that I can complete all the stages at once. The first of these stages requires the Manchu capital, so my plan is to isolate it in this war and conquer it in the next.
The Mongols unwisely decide to join the Manchu and are deprived of half a dozen cores on my territory. Otherwise, the war is untoward - I outnumber the Manchu considerably, even without taking into account the human advantage of not being a mindless idiot. This is the result:
The new acquisitions are Liaodong and Ninguta. Our ultimate goal is Haixi.
Modernization is going to take a long time yet - it's not a one-and-done deal like in vanilla. For reference, here's a 1477 picture showing my current sliders:
As you can tell from my earlier explanation of modernization, quite a lot remains to be done. In fact, I don't expect to be completely done for centuries yet.
1477 brings war with the Manchu. I don't yet have a monarch capable of forming Qing (it takes 7 mil), so my plan is to complete all the territorial prerequisites in advance so that I can complete all the stages at once. The first of these stages requires the Manchu capital, so my plan is to isolate it in this war and conquer it in the next.
The Mongols unwisely decide to join the Manchu and are deprived of half a dozen cores on my territory. Otherwise, the war is untoward - I outnumber the Manchu considerably, even without taking into account the human advantage of not being a mindless idiot. This is the result:
The new acquisitions are Liaodong and Ninguta. Our ultimate goal is Haixi.
In 1486, all the provinces that I had sold to the Uzbeks revolt back to me. This happens a lot (the Uzbeks have administrative efficiency problems, like me), which was one reason I was so cavalier about getting rid of them. I promptly sell them back.
(Incidentally, this strategy tends to lead to a rump Oirat Horde forming in this region after I've formed Qing.)
1490 brings another slider moved Centralized. The royal message announcing this decision was accidentally mistranslated as "Your mom is a copious net importer of male genitalia," resulting in universal condemnation. (Centralization helps to get rid of the innovation penalty, as well as improving AE, so it's a natural choice to push it at this point).
I was at war with the Ming at this point, again (I lost my notes indicating which year I went to war, but I assume it was shortly after the truce expired), so I peace out in 1492 with this result:
Again, none of these provinces is worth anything to me at this point (except Shuntian/Beijing, due to its CoT). Instead, I'm focusing on the provinces needed to get the "unification of northern China" event, which will fire after I form Qing and conquer most the northern half of Ming. This event gives cores on the rest of northern China, and, once I take these, I'll receive cores on the South. Strategy when forming the Qing should revolve around getting these events as soon as possible, since each gives new accepted cultures.
(Incidentally, this strategy tends to lead to a rump Oirat Horde forming in this region after I've formed Qing.)
1490 brings another slider moved Centralized. The royal message announcing this decision was accidentally mistranslated as "Your mom is a copious net importer of male genitalia," resulting in universal condemnation. (Centralization helps to get rid of the innovation penalty, as well as improving AE, so it's a natural choice to push it at this point).
I was at war with the Ming at this point, again (I lost my notes indicating which year I went to war, but I assume it was shortly after the truce expired), so I peace out in 1492 with this result:
Again, none of these provinces is worth anything to me at this point (except Shuntian/Beijing, due to its CoT). Instead, I'm focusing on the provinces needed to get the "unification of northern China" event, which will fire after I form Qing and conquer most the northern half of Ming. This event gives cores on the rest of northern China, and, once I take these, I'll receive cores on the South. Strategy when forming the Qing should revolve around getting these events as soon as possible, since each gives new accepted cultures.
You have done superbly as always. Been busier than expected so not much progress on my end, hope to change that soon. How would you compare MMU to the Christmas edition you used for the first version? Easier? Harder? More/Less Balanced?
Easier in some ways, harder in others. The increased deadliness of Ht3 warfare amplifies the Oirats' advantages, and being able to declare war with no stability loss is a godsend. On the other hand, the fact that you can't choose the timing of wars (since you need to have either a war, high WE or a truce at all times) is aggravating, and legitimacy can be a problem, since bad administrative modifiers drain it. It's also very hard to get royal marriages as the Oirats, which magnifies the legitimacy problem. You start out with only three countries you can have RMs with, all of which will rapidly grow to hate you. Then you form Qing and switch religions, which gives you a much wider range of possible marriage partners, except that they all hate you because of the years you spent as animist. Finally, regency councils seem to be much more common, and MM makes that painful.
On balance, I have to say that it's more fun in this version. Ht3 introduced a lot of features which complemented what MMP2 had already done to make the experience of playing a nomadic/tribal nation fundamentally different from just playing a weak or backwards sedentary nation. I've been having a blast playing this, and I highly encourage all of you to play along if it looks interesting to you. It isn't nearly as hard as it looks.
On balance, I have to say that it's more fun in this version. Ht3 introduced a lot of features which complemented what MMP2 had already done to make the experience of playing a nomadic/tribal nation fundamentally different from just playing a weak or backwards sedentary nation. I've been having a blast playing this, and I highly encourage all of you to play along if it looks interesting to you. It isn't nearly as hard as it looks.
1493 brings the chance of changing national tactics, which I reject. Cavalry specialization is excellent in the early game, and, in any case, it will automatically change to mixed specialization as soon as I modernize to Subsistence Farmers. (This took me by surprise the first time, and resulted in needing to disband half my army while at war to get rid of the cavalry support penalty.)
It's just as well I avoided the stability hit, in any case, since the next year my rock-flinging monarch embarrasses the court more than usual, resulting in a stability hit. The game did not record whether he did this by farting repeatedly on foreign ambassadors, so I am forced to assume that he did.
Meanwhile, things have been busy to my east. Korea declared war on the crippled Manchu and took Haixi ten years ago. They are now at war again, so I take advantage of Korea's weakness to see if I can seize the city I need to unify the Mongol tribes (the first stage in forming the Qing).
Here's an uncropped screenshot of the war declaration, to give you an idea of the situation in the east:
It's just as well I avoided the stability hit, in any case, since the next year my rock-flinging monarch embarrasses the court more than usual, resulting in a stability hit. The game did not record whether he did this by farting repeatedly on foreign ambassadors, so I am forced to assume that he did.
Meanwhile, things have been busy to my east. Korea declared war on the crippled Manchu and took Haixi ten years ago. They are now at war again, so I take advantage of Korea's weakness to see if I can seize the city I need to unify the Mongol tribes (the first stage in forming the Qing).
Here's an uncropped screenshot of the war declaration, to give you an idea of the situation in the east:
The war with Korea is so anticlimactic that I didn't bother to take any screenshots. The war with Manchu destroyed both their army and their alliances, so I take Haixi without difficulty. I now meet all the territorial prerequisites for forming Qing, and am only waiting for a monarch with the appropriate stats.
1497 brings a "petition for redress" - a free Free Subjects move - which, of course, I sign. One reason why I tend to skip the Free Subjects and Aristocracy sliders when I am modernizing in several domains at once is that there are quite a lot of free slider moves in this area, especially when you start with both sliders well to the right.
1502 is another slider move, which, of course, meets with universal condemnation. I move towards Naval this time, since the recent free Free Market move means that I'm only a few moves away from being able to reduce the 50% starting penalty to 25%. Here is the current state of play, modernization-wise:
The requirements for full modernization (or, at least, one possible way to achieve full modernization) are listed in black and red. This assumes Bill of Rights (which acts as +1 to Plutocracy and Free Subjects) and an anchorage in the capital (+2 to Naval).
Anyway, since the Universal Condemnation added 6 to my war weariness, I decided to take a break for a while. And so I leave you with this teaser:
1497 brings a "petition for redress" - a free Free Subjects move - which, of course, I sign. One reason why I tend to skip the Free Subjects and Aristocracy sliders when I am modernizing in several domains at once is that there are quite a lot of free slider moves in this area, especially when you start with both sliders well to the right.
1502 is another slider move, which, of course, meets with universal condemnation. I move towards Naval this time, since the recent free Free Market move means that I'm only a few moves away from being able to reduce the 50% starting penalty to 25%. Here is the current state of play, modernization-wise:
The requirements for full modernization (or, at least, one possible way to achieve full modernization) are listed in black and red. This assumes Bill of Rights (which acts as +1 to Plutocracy and Free Subjects) and an anchorage in the capital (+2 to Naval).
Anyway, since the Universal Condemnation added 6 to my war weariness, I decided to take a break for a while. And so I leave you with this teaser:
Last edited: