This is the best and simplest solution.
I agree, here's hoping that the devs are reading this!
The Pope & the College of Cardinals
- Thread starter LordofSaxony
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I agree, here's hoping that the devs are reading this!
Most Popes after the first few centuries didn't "Latinize" their own names, they took from earlier Papal names. So yes, seeing Popes take a list of Papal names (with roman numerals) would be the best option.
An amusing page on Papal names: http://rotten.com/library/bio/religion/popes/worst-papal-names/
As it notes on Pope Lando (913-914):
An amusing page on Papal names: http://rotten.com/library/bio/religion/popes/worst-papal-names/
As it notes on Pope Lando (913-914):
So yeah, should have a list of Papal names rather than "Latinizing" personal ones.
Hrm... Bishoprics should either give the liege money and troops or Piety and Papal influence, but not both. As if you are taking troops and money from the church rather than letting it stay within the church, then you shouldn't be seen as pious and helpful to the Popes cause.
Actually, bishops in the Middle Ages were treated as lay vassals for the lands they received in fief from the sovereign and thus were required to pay tithes and supply troops. This was not considered un-pious or dishonorable, but quite normal. This is also the reason why there was a lay and spiritual investiture and why emperors and popes squabbled over the nomination of clerics. In the Condordate of Worms it was decided that the pope would invest with the staff and ring (spiritual investiture) but the monarch would invest the bishops with secular territories belonging to the bishopric and for which normal vassal obligations applied.
Quite a number of bishops were also able commanders in the field, especially, when fighting Muslims or Pagans.
Quite a number of bishops were also able commanders in the field, especially, when fighting Muslims or Pagans.
A little known fact; Pope Lando was black.
Hm, your pope Lando looks a little bit like Lando Calrissian from Star Wars. He definetly doesn't look like someone born in Sabina, Italy.
College of Cardinals should be in the game. They can be the representatives of each arcbishopric.
Since among the Cardinals were not only bishops but priests, deacons or even even laymen i think that the trait "Cardinal" (and a vote in a papal election) should be granted to males with ecclesiastical educationat the Pope's discretion...
+1
I would like to see the college of cardinals expand over time. And be subject to suppression (or reduced function) if the HRE or other strong feudal power could impose the selection of pope like any other prelate in his realm... That said, cardinals should be distributed among the clergy in the Pope's closest allies, mainly Italians under historical conditions. Under the Babylonian Captivity (i.e. the Avignon Papacy), many cardinals were naturally French; with Spain's ascension as Defender of the Faith cardinalships were created in Spain, notably Rodrigo Borgia who became Pope Alexander VI. The late medieval college seems to have balanced out at about twenty members.
I agree... There should be some functions in the game in which they will allow the ruler to negotiate a cardinal's hat for his son or his chaplain/courtier/bishop... Or the Pope offering the cardinalate to the King's favourite minister in order to lure him to join a crusade etc. ... Plus i still insist that the traits for various ranks be created (aka deacon, priest, Bishop) as this could lead to some nice chain events... like in case that the local bishop disagrees with the courtier (perhaps of lower rank deaconm priest or layman) but this courtier bears the trait "Cardinal" which gives him tremendous religious authority, piety, prestige and heavy influence over the ruler...
I agree with you two, and bribe should be in the game for cardinals. And the Pope should have an option to excommunicate leaders or all characters in the game.
a bribe should be in the game, but with severe risks of being caught. This was the age of the gregorian reforms and the full on ascetics that would spiral into manichaeism.
Indulgence sales and all sorts of corruption and bribery were being hunted and punished as never before or after. If you choose to bribe your brother into the throne of st-peter or even a cardinalship, it should be at the serious risk of excommunication and alot worse if you get caught.
But the option of bribing ought to be there just to give the player an ability to align things in his favour without having to cheat.
And if things start falling apart with heresies breaking out all over the place or moslems stamping their boots on romes rugs, then all the AI lords ought start doing it too.
Indulgence sales and all sorts of corruption and bribery were being hunted and punished as never before or after. If you choose to bribe your brother into the throne of st-peter or even a cardinalship, it should be at the serious risk of excommunication and alot worse if you get caught.
But the option of bribing ought to be there just to give the player an ability to align things in his favour without having to cheat.
And if things start falling apart with heresies breaking out all over the place or moslems stamping their boots on romes rugs, then all the AI lords ought start doing it too.
Well crusades and bribes weren't the only thing a ruler could do for bettering their standing with the pope.
They could go on non-combative pilgrimages, build churches and cathedrals, and show submission to Papal authority.
They could go on non-combative pilgrimages, build churches and cathedrals, and show submission to Papal authority.
It should depend on the character. A character who is zealous, temperate and energetic should be impossible to bribe and should make it much harder to bribe cardinals if he is the Pope. Such characters should launch Church reforms to eliminate lax or corrupt practice.
On the other hand, a cardinal who is lazy, indulgent and pragmatic is likely to be amenable to bribery if he thinks that he can get away with it: such a character is best thought of as a politician in a cassock rather than somebody with a true religious vocation. A Pope who is lax and stupid or lazy will allow corrupt behaviour to go unpunished: a shrewder but equally unethical one would blackmail the cardinal into giving him a cut.
This tension should be a significant factor in the game, driving events such as a reformist Pope publicly chastising or punishing corrupt or lax subordinates, or the people turning from a self-interested official Church to a radical itinerant preacher. Through a string of events, the outcome of the latter could range from the preacher being burned as a heretic to inspiring a generation of reformist clergy.
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i agree, corrupt people opening the doors to corrupt things would be a good way to go for sure
I also like the idea of papal power as a variable. Especially before say 1200, a lot of Western Christendom sort of gave approval to the primacy of Rome, but was following its own rites & liturgy and not too quick to adopt Gregory VII's reforms. Spain joined with Rome in the late XI century, and the English Pope Adrian IV gave Henry II the go-ahead to invade Ireland in order to reign in the too-independent-minded Irish Church as well as to bring the benefits of "civilization" that the domination of his native land could bring her sister island. So, although in terms of raw temporal power the Papacy was rather a third-rate power, but there was also a kind of imperialism going on that went hand-in-hand at times with the ambitions of important secular leaders.
Yes, it would be uber killer if the Pope's capabilities and personality had a real effect on the game, especially as it reflects directly on the player's marriage / legitimation / investiture problems.
does uber killer mean good or bad?
Id think the church would only ever effect a marriage if it was between close relations or something where special dispensation would be needed, then needing to go get it would be great! but itd be both a hassle and silly if it had to happen for every marriage.
But not just the popes, but the cardinals, local bishops stats would surely effect you alot more than the popes as its them youd be dealing with unless youre truely exceptional like caunte or something
Id think the church would only ever effect a marriage if it was between close relations or something where special dispensation would be needed, then needing to go get it would be great! but itd be both a hassle and silly if it had to happen for every marriage.
But not just the popes, but the cardinals, local bishops stats would surely effect you alot more than the popes as its them youd be dealing with unless youre truely exceptional like caunte or something
