Why are Darkest Hour, AoD and Iron Cross not part of the same development?

Strategos' Risk said:

Ah, but you don't have to pay the price of a new game every time you fire off a new campaign in either game, now, do you?

AoD was supposed to be HOI: perfect edition. Now we have more games built off the same engine, about the same time period, competing with it. It's really watering down the brand. If I want to get a definitive, complete, WWII game based on the HOI2 engine, which one am I supposed to buy?



Well I'm sorry, but if I want to get a better experience out of an engine, I can download mods and keep them or delete them. I don't want to have to buy a whole new game every single time I want a new experience with the engine. And please forgive me if I don't think you can exactly create RUSE or Commandos out of the HOI engine. I doubt you'll get a fundamentally different gameplay experience out of DH vs. IC vs. AoD. Instead, consumers will be left deciding between different kinds of improved AI, different kinds of more events, more provinces vs. more nations.

What is this, Madden?



Don't worry, I won't be buying these games.

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I don't know where you got it but neither Paradox nor the Devs for AoD claimed that AoD was Hoi2 perfect edition. Also you comnplain about people chooing what point of view in game they want soo let me clue you in on something..... They've been doing it for years in the choice of mods weather its CORE, Kaiserreich, Mod33/34 , Wif.... I could go on. Remember war games are not like your standard first person shooter which is play through once get full completion then trade it in for the next one. Ive fought WW2 hundreds of times both Vanilla and with mods I've liked, and with ones i haven't liked.

Back in 08 when Paradox decided to liscence out its Europa engine to those who wanted to carry it further that opened the door.Now they opened this door because they saw that while they were going to thier new engine which you wee in EU3 and Hoi3 they're was a large number of people who wanted more with their old engine. Now apparently you think the door shouldn't have been opened in the first place and i feel sad for you.

Remember Europa Engine is also EU2 VIcky1 Crusader Kings so you'll probably see other games from them too in time.

kiahoga said:

I don't know where you got it but neither Paradox nor the Devs for AoD claimed that AoD was Hoi2 perfect edition. Also you comnplain about people chooing what point of view in game they want soo let me clue you in on something..... They've been doing it for years in the choice of mods weather its CORE, Kaiserreich, Mod33/34 , Wif.... I could go on. Remember war games are not like your standard first person shooter which is play through once get full completion then trade it in for the next one. Ive fought WW2 hundreds of times both Vanilla and with mods I've liked, and with ones i haven't liked.

Back in 08 when Paradox decided to liscence out its Europa engine to those who wanted to carry it further that opened the door. Now apparently you think the door shouldn't have been opened in the first place and i feel sad for you.

Remember Europa Engine is also EU2 VIcky1 Crusader Kings so you'll probably see other games from them too in time.

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As long as we don't get yet another HOI II remake I'll be calm.

This thread is not going to lead anywhere, in any case to lose time. I would like also FC Barcelona, Chelsea, Real Madrid and Manchester United were merged into a super-team, but that will not happen because they are different clubs. Something similar happens here so there is nothing more to talk about or discuss on the issue.

kiahoga said:

I don't know where you got it but neither Paradox nor the Devs for AoD claimed that AoD was Hoi2 perfect edition.

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Well the idea is to improve upon HOI 2. How many different improvements of HOI2 do we have to decide between, not to mention pay for?

Also you comnplain about people chooing what point of view in game they want soo let me clue you in on something..... They've been doing it for years in the choice of mods weather its CORE, Kaiserreich, Mod33/34 , Wif.... I could go on. Remember war games are not like your standard first person shooter which is play through once get full completion then trade it in for the next one. Ive fought WW2 hundreds of times both Vanilla and with mods I've liked, and with ones i haven't liked.

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You don't have to pay for mods.

Back in 08 when Paradox decided to liscence out its Europa engine to those who wanted to carry it further that opened the door.Now they opened this door because they saw that while they were going to thier new engine which you wee in EU3 and Hoi3 they're was a large number of people who wanted more with their old engine. Now apparently you think the door shouldn't have been opened in the first place and i feel sad for you.

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These aren't new doors. These are the same door with new coats of paint, made of more hinges and components, that open a different direction, but these aren't new doors. A fantasy game using the HOI 2 game would be a new door. A sci-fi game would be. A Cold War or World War I-focused or alt-WWII game would be.

Remember Europa Engine is also EU2 VIcky1 Crusader Kings so you'll probably see other games from them too in time.

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I'll cheer when I see them.

Daboo said:

This thread is not going to lead anywhere, in any case to lose time. I would like also FC Barcelona, Chelsea, Real Madrid and Manchester United were merged into a super-team, but that will not happen because they are different clubs. Something similar happens here so there is nothing more to talk about or discuss on the issue.

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Yes, but those teams play considerably differently from each other, which is more than could be said of WWII games based on the same engine.

OH SNAP

I dont know why some of you are complaining. Its great to have different teams doing different developments. They will come up with different approaches and different ways of doing things. Great ideas usually come out of a competition. At the end it will be a question about flavour. Like Pepsi, Pepsi Light, Pepsi Max. Its the same with the mods, are you going to ask all modders to unite under one flag?? The more choices and options the better for the customer.

If some of you didnt noticed IC is an expansion. That will work with all versions of HOI2 engine. Just choose the one you preffer, you are free to do so as it will work with Arma, AoD or new DH. Are you asking an independent developer not to do an expansion???? ((Its the first time I see something like this on this forums)) An expansion that offers tons of real new stuff, thousands of events and the chance of playing WW1, WW2, and Cold War. 3 Games in one and you are saying no to this?? If it was only adding a Theater of operations I could understand some complains and suspicions, but as far as I remember this wasnt a problem a few months ago. . Could this new mentality of fear have something to do with HOI3 fiasco and SF pay-per-patch?? HOI3 Stockholm Syndrome :rofl: You can buy it or ignore it. its like DLC japanese infantry sprite pack, if you dont like it dont buy it (((by the way, real men play with counters))))

Let them carry on with their idea, they are open to suggestions and will put their product on the market. The market will decide.

Mixing them all and uniting them in a single entity is in my opinion a bad idea. Is like wanting WW2 German an Italian army merging into a single inneficient army. If you have one good and one bad it is still better than having only a useless one. But who knows, may be we will have 2 wonderful products.

About IC team, I trust their work. I liked their previous modding works. Apart from that, they have not given me a reason to think that they will release an unfinished product and will discontinue support after 2 patches that will take them +1year to publish.

HOI2 is a battle proved engine, we know its strengths and limitations. IMO this guys are able to give it another twist expanding it and making it even better. HOI3 is haunted by its ghosts and we still have to see if it will live up to the promises made +1 year ago...... so far IMO it has not.

Just my 2 cents

Dercius, agree with your point of view expressed above.

Dercius said:

(((by the way, real men play with counters))))

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I'm not a real man lol :rofl:


Great points Dercius! Definitely agreed.

So Darkest Hour is a whole different game, and Iron Cross is "only" a mod, which can be implemented in Darkest Hour/DD:Arma/AoD?

Akaki said:

So Darkest Hour is a whole different game, and Iron Cross is "only" a mod, which can be implemented in Darkest Hour/DD:Arma/AoD?

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Small clarification: IC is an expansion pack over DH/DDA/AoD.

Vaximillian said:

Small clarification: IC is an expansion pack over DH/DDA/AoD.

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Small correction: IC it's a mod gone comercial.

Could someone clarify for me why Darkest Hour is 'a whole new game' while IC (and AoD I guess) are expansions?

AoD is not a expansion but a game itself, like Darkest Hour
Iron Cross is a expansion for the HOI2 saga (HOI2 DD Armageddon, AoD and DH)

Mr_B0narpte said:

So will IC be able to include the perks AoD has? Or will it only include the HOI2 Anthology?

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I think it will, if it's placed over AoD.

Vaximillian said:

I think it will, if it's placed over AoD.

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IC will have to adapt to every patch made from DH or AoD if they want to keep fully compatible with the 2. I mean its not like you can freely replace a .exe with another without problems.

Strategos' Risk said:

I feel that this licensing scheme is going to be a disappointment if these two games aren't the final WWII HOI2 spinoff. I had hoped that making the engine available to teams would open up to WWI-centered games, Cold War-centered games, even alternate history scenarios similar to Kaiserreich. All this makes me glad that I never bought AoD. Whether Paradox is willing to admit it or not, they are giving their fans the choice between either buying all of these games, or choosing between AoD, IC, and DH. Or two out of three.

Because honestly, how many times can you wage the same damn war with the same engine?

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http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=500393

I would pay for a Kaiserreich officially-licensed standalone game if it had as many improvements as AoD or another beefed-up HOI 2 spin-off.

Strategos' Risk said:

I would pay for a Kaiserreich officially-licensed standalone game if it had as many improvements as AoD or another beefed-up HOI 2 spin-off.

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+2 But free is even better

Oh, most definitely!

I guess another issue with new diverging spin-offs is aside from the "paying for a mod" aspect, you're diluting the core franchise and fracturing the mod community. Every time something official comes from Paradox, modders have to decide who to mod for. So should they mod for HOI 2: IC, or AoD, or Darkest Hour? Will you sacrifice better AI in one installment for improved mechanics in another?

Maybe some of these installments should be unmoddable.

Strategos' Risk said:

I guess another issue with new diverging spin-offs is aside from the "paying for a mod" aspect, you're diluting the core franchise and fracturing the mod community. Every time something official comes from Paradox, modders have to decide who to mod for. So should they mod for HOI 2: IC, or AoD, or Darkest Hour?

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Not really.
They only have to choose between AOD and DH for they are the only products really competing.

Fernando Torres said:

Please stop speculating about DH and IC.

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We're on a discussion forum for a yet unreleased game and we're not allowed to speculate what's about to come? I guess that would limit the discussion to giving our opinions on what's already been confirmed.

You will make your opinion when they are released.

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Whoops, seems we're also not allowed to do that. Better refrain from posting altogether?

While I see where you're coming from you can hardly blame people to discuss, compare and evaluate the information they've been given, while waiting in anticipation. Especially with so many options on the horizon it's no more than natural people start reviewing those options and attempting to extrapolate what kind of gaming experience we can expect at the end of the line. Be fair to the fans, since my first thought when seeing the thread title was "Oh, I actually wonder about that as well" and what I see are raging devs inside how people dare to form opinions on their precious little projects.