Suggestions

[WaverleyHonour]

War exhaustion is insane. It's harsh enough by itself, but the fact that the AI doesn't seem to get much war exhaustion makes it all too much. I'm easily winning wars, with no ports blockaded and very little attrition, and I'm up above 30% WE, while the AI (getting destroyed) has less than 10% WE...

[Naselus]

I've no idea how you're managing that, as WE has been nerfed and mostly comes from being seiged, occupied or blockaded now - even battle WE is only 1/3rd of Vanilla's. Are you launching war after war without waiting for it to die down or something?

[Yuri_Kenobi]

War exhaustion is insane. It's harsh enough by itself, but the fact that the AI doesn't seem to get much war exhaustion makes it all too much. I'm easily winning wars, with no ports blockaded and very little attrition, and I'm up above 30% WE, while the AI (getting destroyed) has less than 10% WE...

That sounds very strange. Maybe there has been some changes recently, but when I played 3.0.9, I almost got no war exhaustion as long as I didn't lose my provinces, while the AI went up to 100% really fast when I started occupying their provinces.

[Naselus]

That sounds very strange. Maybe there has been some changes recently, but when I played 3.0.9, I almost got no war exhaustion as long as I didn't lose my provinces, while the AI went up to 100% really fast when I started occupying their provinces.

There's been WE changes - but downward, rather than upward. WE is now lower than ever.

[Naselus]

OK, checked this out, and I have to say I'm seeing completely the opposite; the AI is facing huge WE and I've got very little, using Zulu to attack Oranje. Are you sure your actually looking at your own WE score, and not another country?

[Hibernian]

However: if we flesh the idea out some more, it may have some merit. Imagine the US/UK war you cited as more of a factional division within Communism - a Trotskyite UK acting to crush a Stalinist US or some such.

Well, why not actively create that with country modifiers? When a proletarian dictorship occurs, we have 4 events, each of which gives it a distinct 'flavour' of Communism (from Stalinism, Leninism, Troskyism and Maoism). It would gain very good relations with other nations that already have that communist modifier, and less decent relations with the other types - with leninis gainng fair relations with each, Trotsky and Stalinism hating each other, Maoism being indifferent to both, etc. That way, we capture the internal arguments within communist thought, but can still create a Comintern effect; we can even unlock the different modifiers at different times.

Well maybe something like that could work. But I would point out that all of those ideological splits occurred quite late in terms of this game, that is the Leninism-Trotskyism-Stalinism thing only really happened in the 1930s, before that they would have all called themselves Bolsheviks (or just Marxists) and of course Maoism didn't split with Soviet Communism until the 50s and 60s.

The splits in this period were more between Bolsheviks and Mensheviks, and of course other types of Communism like Luxemburgism. As well as the more general split between Social Democrats and Revolutionary Communists.

I just think there weren’t really that many ideological schisms within 19th century Communism, since all groups were pretty close to Marx's original thoughts. And I think that any kind of Communist (or even Socialist) government of the time would have warmly welcomed any other Revolutions, regardless of small differences. They might grow to dislike each other later however.

Perhaps you could create some kind of "Communist Conference" event chain when there's more than one Proletarian Dictatorship in the world, in which they could interact. So for instance, the first Communist country gets a decision to "Call a Conference of Proletarian states" which subsequent Communist countries get the option to join after they have a revolution. It would give them good relations with each other and stop them from fighting in weird ways. It could also perhaps have knock-on effects for other countries, so that when there are a few Communist states, all countries (except perhaps Uncivs) get some event which increases the Militancy and Consciousness of Communist and Socialist POPs (or perhaps increases their revolt risk or rebel organisation) and makes non-Communist/Socialist governments increasingly hostile to the participating Communist countries.

You could also work in some way for the most powerful Communist country (presumably a Great Power) to lead the other Communist states, and perhaps then create some kind of Comintern Alliance, after which point, splits would start to grow as different Communist countries compete against each other to be the leader.

If the Communist countries become too powerful then the conservative regimes could also get some events to perhaps ally against them.

Also, were you guys able to implement those ideological CBs yet? I seem to remember there being talk of new CBs for opposing ideology GPs to try to "Spread the Revolution" or "Crush the Revolution", which if achieved, would change the government of the losing country. I haven’t seen anything like that happen in my games yet.

[Naselus]

You've not seen them because they've not been implemented :P

And there were plenty of ideological splits in 19th century communism - remember that by the time a full communist state finally appeared the world was onto it's 3rd International due to their hopeless inability to agree on even the basics of communism. The Anarcho-commies are booted out of the first, and the second fell apart in WW1 and lost the majority of the 'practical' socialist parties in Europe by the beginning of the third... overall, for a doctrine that seeks a unified social purpose, Communism was singularly fractuous

I have been intending to do something with the Internationals, but haven't worked the ideas through fully yet.

[Rylock]

Also, were you guys able to implement those ideological CBs yet? I seem to remember there being talk of new CBs for opposing ideology GPs to try to "Spread the Revolution" or "Crush the Revolution", which if achieved, would change the government of the losing country. I haven’t seen anything like that happen in my games yet.

There was discussion about such CB's, but it can't happen. We can only implement custom CB's that use the goals currently in existence-- because there's no way to detect what CB someone has, who started the war or in any other way set a flag that looks for anything other than "these two nations are at war". Until the on_add effect in a CB actually works as advertised, the most we can do is play with the CB's that currently exist, and how they're used.

[WaverleyHonour]

I really don't know what happened with my WE. I didn't do anything out of the ordinary. I'll reinstall everything and see what happens.

[Radar38]

Can the US and CSA get their government names redone. It's weird seeing the USA as the Communist US's name, it should at least be USSA or something? Just a suggestion.

[Hibernian]

I'd second that. You should really try to include some more interesting alternative names for countries. The Papal States becoming the "Roman Commune" is good, more of that sort of thing please.

[KaiserBenjamin]

I'd second that. You should really try to include some more interesting alternative names for countries. The Papal States becoming the "Roman Commune" is good, more of that sort of thing please.

This sounds like a fun idea, but I think it should be a low priority. Given that time spent modding Victoria II is a finite resource, personally, I would rather see Naselus and Rylock spend their time adding game-improving (or balancing) features than superficial name changes. Again, I'm not against the idea at all. I just think the priority shouldn't be there. This post should not be construed as KaiserBenjamin drinking the haterade.

Perhaps we could start a separate thread to bounce around such name-changing ideas and maybe they will get added by either Naselus or Rylock (if they're looking for a break from the hard modding) or a third-party who knows how to code?

[Radar38]

You know that's a good idea, I guess I'll start one. If I can have permission.

[WaverleyHonour]

'Child labor' giving a drop in pop growth and education is completely backwards. That people who would have been starving supernumeraries in former times (children in particular) now had the opportunity to work for wages and sustain their lives was the cause of the massive population growth of the 19th century onwards - thus child labor should in fact give a massive population boost. By moving from the farms into the cities to work, people (including these children) gained skills with which they could earn a living serving other consumers - thus giving an education boost (especially for the mod's conception of literacy). Schooling is not in any way the same thing as education.

[Naselus]

I'd just like to point out I NEVER take a break from 'hard' modding, except when I'm busy doing the hard degree writing or book writing. :P

You can start a thread and bounce some ideas round, and a few of the best ones might be added to the main mod - USSA for example - but the map already has some issues with names and I don't want it cluttered with too many different options. Spain is Spain, regardless of if the Nationalists or the Republicans win.


Waverley, child labour increased child mortality in the 19th century so much that working-class life expectancy dropped by 9 years. And the skills children learned in cotton mills were not transferrable skills for later in life, as they were recruited for their small size to do jobs adults literally could not do; they were not being taught the basic reading, writing and arithmetic required of an adult worker on a machine, and nor were they being taught the functions of these machines. I will remove the ed penalty, but they're not getting a bonus from it.Furthermore, it worries me slightly that your post is effectively saying there's no downsides to child labour in dangerous environments; I'm not going to be the person writing the 'child labour is good' mod.

[history_fan]

I'd just like to point out I NEVER take a break from 'hard' modding, except when I'm busy doing the hard degree writing or book writing. :P

You can start a thread and bounce some ideas round, and a few of the best ones might be added to the main mod - USSA for example - but the map already has some issues with names and I don't want it cluttered with too many different options. Spain is Spain, regardless of if the Nationalists or the Republicans win.


Waverley, child labour increased child mortality in the 19th century so much that working-class life expectancy dropped by 9 years. And the skills children learned in cotton mills were not transferrable skills for later in life, as they were recruited for their small size to do jobs adults literally could not do; they were not being taught the basic reading, writing and arithmetic required of an adult worker on a machine, and nor were they being taught the functions of these machines. I will remove the ed penalty, but they're not getting a bonus from it.Furthermore, it worries me slightly that your post is effectively saying there's no downsides to child labour in dangerous environments; I'm not going to be the person writing the 'child labour is good' mod.

But the forcing of children into jobs to sustain their families was a primary cause of illiteracy in later life; why remove the modifier?

[Naselus]

I'd say the primary cause of illiteracy in later life was not being taught to read, which was the condition of about 50% of the population of nations without child labur anyway. And as Waverley says, 'literacy' is not just reading and writing in PDM.

[WaverleyHonour]

Waverley, child labour increased child mortality in the 19th century so much that working-class life expectancy dropped by 9 years.

How can you say that this is due to child labour? City conditions were squalid compared to those of the country.

Furthermore, it worries me slightly that your post is effectively saying there's no downsides to child labour in dangerous environments; I'm not going to be the person writing the 'child labour is good' mod.

My point is merely that it allowed more people to sustain themselves than the previous agricultural existence did, and therefore that if child labor effects pop growth, it should be in a positive way. It's your mod of course - the removal of the education modifier is appreciated.

[Naselus]

How can you say that this is due to child labour? City conditions were squalid compared to those of the country.

Because I'm doing a degree in archaeology and I've read the scholarly works on the subject - hence the amount of research in the mod, I can actually do it as part of my degree. The total drop in life expectancy for the poor in Britain was rather closer to 20 years in the cities (as low as 18 years of age in Liverpool in the 1830s, at a time when the rural average had risen to 42), but the amount of this that can be directly attributed to child labour (and the additional overcrowding caused by large inner-city families contributing to that squalor), averaged across the whole of the UK (It was highest in Glasgow, Manchester and particularly the docks of Liverpool, and significantly lower in London and Birmingham) is considered to be 9 years, with disease and adult injury making up the other 13 (and also note that this is the 'general' average drawn over a decade, rather than using any specific year. Chorlea outbreaks can skew the figures wildly in certain years). This is drawn from the nature of work in which children (often under the age of 9) were employed (hence why docklands contributed the most), factory and hospital records of injury and disease, and not a small amount from the Saddler report of 1832 - which also noted that some children were beaten by factory owners so severly that they succumbed to fatigue. Given the paper I read represents roughly 4 years of work by a specialized Industrial archaeologist working on the subject of child labour and it's effect on health in the 19th century, I'm inclined to use that as the basis for the decision


I can also converse at great length upon Neanderthal social practices, the impact of mass killings upon ancestor worship practices in post-war Vietnam, the consequences of the Roman conquest of Britain on the local clan system, the kinship implications of the moai of Rapa Nui, and the concept of the documentation of the self as indicated through the nature of modern democracy. There's a reason people call me a workaholic.

My point is merely that it allowed more people to sustain themselves than the previous agricultural existence did, and therefore that if child labor effects pop growth, it should be in a positive way. It's your mod of course - the removal of the education modifier is appreciated.

I'm not certain the education modifier should be removed, necessarily - it's a case of the children are learning skills that would keep them at the same level, rather than giving them an extra dimension of social mobility as Literacy represents in PDM. But I'm considering it.

[Rylock]

Question about Australia:

An Australian culture exists in the culture file... but no culture pop has it. Australia doesn't even have Australian as its primary culture. Is there a way for the British to assimilate into Australians either before or after Australia/NZ is released, and change Australia/NZ to Australian primary culture? And could the same thing be done with Afrikaaner?