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  1. #1
    Colonel dskod1's Avatar
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    Australia and New Zealand Improvement Mod

    ANZIM


    This mod's primary function is to improve Playing australia by adding events and decisions to both the British Empire and Australia. As well as adding in extra countries for Australia (IE. States and Territories). I am more than willing to integrate this mod into other mods if requested.

    The Mod's Secondary Function will be to add improvement to the New Zealand Country although it will not have as high priority as Australia.

    Please note I am new to modding and this will be my first mod. It will probably progress slowly but I will try my best

    Team:
    chann (did most of the core work for the mod)
    dskod1

    v 0.1 (planned)
    ~ Making all states into new Countries
    ~ Making flags for all States
    ~ Adding cores where necessary
    ~ Adding Australian Culture into the britsh Culture
    ~ Adding all Tasmania as Satellite of UK
    States:
    - Tasmania
    ~ Adding New South Wales as Satellite of UK
    States:
    - New South Wales
    - Victoria
    - Queensland
    - Northern Territory
    ~ Adding South Australia as Satellite of UK
    States:
    - South Australia
    ~ Western Australia will remain UK Controlled
    Last edited by dskod1; 14-09-2010 at 05:40.
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  2. #2
    Voter Colonel chann's Avatar
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    I've actually been working on a mod with pretty much the same goal! (Different from the Dominion mod linked in my sig, which was sort of a spinoff of my main ideas). I already have all of the Australian states done (plus an Australasia union country), political parties for Australia and NZ, ships, flags and a couple of new events/decisions written. Care to combine our work?
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  3. #3
    Colonel dskod1's Avatar
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    Sounds good to me. Saves me some of the trouble.

    Ok well with most of what I had planned done by you I can concentrate on events, decisions, and flags (if done)

    Did you want to send me what you have done so I know where we are at and I can get started.

    Also did you have a topic for this mod or do you just want to use this one?
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  4. #4
    Voter Colonel chann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dskod1 View Post
    Sounds good to me. Saves me some of the trouble.

    Ok well with most of what I had planned done by you I can concentrate on events, decisions, and flags (if done)

    Did you want to send me what you have done so I know where we are at and I can get started.
    OK, I'll send you what I have when I get back from work later, and explain in full what I've done...

    Ahistorical flags in particular do need some revising - whether you want to go the "real but modern alternate flags" route, or a fanciful but sort of historically appropriate one. I went the latter but the designs I made up are a bit ehh

    You might also be interested in these historical research links I collated.

    What sort of events did you have in mind? I'm thinking political ones should be a priority (i.e. the states should start to appear in the 1850s given sufficient population, development and other factors). Also POP and cultural setup should be addressed - as it stands no Aussie POPs will ever appear in the game, so some are needed around 1836. And having colonial tags with Australian primary culture will stop the British from swallowing them up.

    Quote Originally Posted by dskod1 View Post
    Also did you have a topic for this mod or do you just want to use this one?
    Using this topic is fine, though in my opinion a catcher name would be Australia and New Zealand Improvement Pack (ANZIP) ... What do you think?
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  5. #5
    Colonel dskod1's Avatar
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    the funny thing about the name is thats what I named my folder on my computer for this mod.

    Also I was thinking that at the start the following states are created as Satellites of UK

    ~ Adding Tasmania
    States:
    - Tasmania

    ~ Adding New South Wales
    States:
    - New South Wales
    - Victoria
    - Queensland
    - Northern Territory

    ~ Adding South Australia
    States:
    - South Australia

    By doing this we give the player a chance to start off as an Australian colony however if you disagree strongly than we will go with your idea.

    Also I have made an Australian culture in the British culture group. The Australian culture basically represents the original prisoners taken to australia and all there different nationalities.

    Also in the all the capitals I made sure that there were British and Australian pops (as in the ones where aboriginals were)

    I changed the australia pop file to make all british pops australians EXCEPT the soldiers which were left British (for obvious reasons)

    Also I think what would be a good event would be one based off the start of the american civil war event where you choose sides. Same thing except no war. So for example if queensland were to brake off from NSW than you could choose if you want to be queensland or NSW after the formation
    Last edited by dskod1; 14-09-2010 at 05:44.
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  6. #6
    Voter Colonel chann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dskod1 View Post
    Also I was thinking that at the start the following states are created as Satellites of UK

    ~ Adding Tasmania
    States:
    - Tasmania

    ~ Adding New South Wales
    States:
    - New South Wales
    - Victoria
    - Queensland
    - Northern Territory

    ~ Adding South Australia
    States:
    - South Australia

    By doing this we give the player a chance to start off as an Australian colony however if you disagree strongly than we will go with your idea.
    My idea was basically to follow VIP's lead of having the colonial tags represent responsible governments. I'm not averse to having an alternate 1836 setup with those colonies existing from the start.

    Also, representing convicts and the end of transportation is a must - any ideas? I haven't touched anything involving event modifiers yet. Some kind of immigrant push of poor British POPs to Australia, with a corresponding rise in MIL or penalty to admin efficiency?

    Quote Originally Posted by dskod1 View Post
    Also I have made an Australian culture in the British culture group. The Australian culture basically represents the original prisoners taken to australia and all there different nationalities.
    Did that also, at the moment I moved Australian to its own culture group to see if union tagging has much of a difference, may move it back to the "Neo_european" or British groups after all. I did add a New Zealander culture in the file, but don't know what to do with it really.

    Quote Originally Posted by dskod1 View Post
    Also in the all the capitals I made sure that there were British and Australian pops (as in the ones where aboriginals were)

    I changed the australia pop file to make all british pops australians EXCEPT the soldiers which were left British (for obvious reasons)
    Did the same, but left them mostly British. I think of Australian culture more as representing the native-born descendants of both convicts and settlers. But through playtesting I understand you have to add a lot of a POP to prevent them from quickly evaporating, so maybe they can be left 100% Australian and have new British immigration make up the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by dskod1 View Post
    Also I think what would be a good event would be one based off the start of the american civil war event where you choose sides. Same thing except no war. So for example if queensland were to brake off from NSW than you could choose if you want to be queensland or NSW after the formation
    Excellent idea! So the UK would also get that event also - in the case that the player wants to go from being the #1 world power to playing tiny little Tasmania?
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  7. #7
    Voter Colonel chann's Avatar
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    Flags (not final!)

    ASL = Australasia (Australia and New Zealand political union)
    AST = Australia
    NSW = New South Wales
    NZL = New Zealand
    QLD = Queensland
    SAS = South Australia
    TAS = Tasmania
    VIC = Victoria
    WAS = Western Australia

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  8. #8
    Colonel dskod1's Avatar
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    Great flags. I am pretty happy with them.

    Perhaps we should also include small provincial tribes which would represent the the aboriginal tribes. In order to go after them you can use military (CBs ETC) or diplomacy (events or otherwise)

    I think there should be an postives and negatives for both ways
    Military:
    You get the land fast.
    you piss natives off.

    Diplomatically
    You will eventually get aborignals as an accepted culture
    It will take time and resources

    Anyway what you think about this?

    Also (and most important)
    we have to agree on how the states will form.
    will we start of with my suggestions of colonies under satellites of UK
    or will we go with you playing the british empire and they come after there is a certain amount of pop in that area

    or another idea.

    Anyways I will test out what you have done on the project so far and give more ideas.

    If it is possible could you come up with a list of what you have done on the project so far
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  9. #9
    Colonel dskod1's Avatar
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    ok after reading up on history evidently there were two kind of colonies,

    Free state (non convict labor)
    and
    Convict Labor

    Perhaps we can represent this through slavery?

    Also something to back up my idea of satellite colonies

    "Constitutionally, New South Wales was founded as an autocracy run by the Governor, although he nearly always exercised his powers within the restraints of British law. In practice the early Governors ruled by consent, with the advice of military officers, officials and leading settlers."

    "In 1825 the New South Wales Legislative Council, Australia's oldest legislative body, was established, as an appointed body to advise the Governor."

    Also please note that the body did NOT become slight democrat until 1842. So I suggest a political system with no voting rights and upper house to be appointed and also slavery allowed with some states with not with other to represent convict labor.

    Australia Borders: 1836
    Yellow = NSW
    Blue = Western Australia
    Orange = tasmania
    Please note in this same year South australia colony was formed and took most of present day south australia as its borders


    I think that adelaide should be an upstart colony with australian, irish, and british settlers whilst the rest of south australia should be aboriginal.

    I think that queensland and northern territory should be mostly aboriginal as well although under NSW rule.

    I think that when population hits a certain level there should be events fired at the australian colonies and britan about independance
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  10. #10
    Voter Colonel chann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dskod1 View Post
    Great flags. I am pretty happy with them.
    Even the Victorian fascist one?

    Quote Originally Posted by dskod1 View Post
    Perhaps we should also include small provincial tribes which would represent the the aboriginal tribes. In order to go after them you can use military (CBs ETC) or diplomacy (events or otherwise)

    I think there should be an postives and negatives for both ways
    Military:
    You get the land fast.
    you piss natives off.

    Diplomatically
    You will eventually get aborignals as an accepted culture
    It will take time and resources

    Anyway what you think about this?
    Yep, there should be more events about Aboriginal relations. It should be very difficult to gain them as an accepted culture though, you'd have to go the complete opposite way to what happened historically, i.e. allow them policies to keep their customs and culture - which should upset the upper and middle class whites who had low opinions of them in the era.

    I admit I don't know much about Aboriginal groups, so more research would be needed to accurately represent them as independent tribes/nations.

    Quote Originally Posted by dskod1 View Post
    Also (and most important)
    we have to agree on how the states will form.
    will we start of with my suggestions of colonies under satellites of UK
    or will we go with you playing the british empire and they come after there is a certain amount of pop in that area

    or another idea.
    How about this for now: have them from the start, but with governments set to Absolute Monarchy to represent the rule of the colonial Governors. (The reforms will need to be revised in the history files). Then there can be events to release the other colonies like QLD and VIC. (This way may be better in the sense that the primary culture can be set to Australian from the start of the game, and immigrants will assimilate to it).

    Quote Originally Posted by dskod1 View Post
    If it is possible could you come up with a list of what you have done on the project so far
    Should I just post a list here? It's a long one! Note the piecemeal way in which I work on things...

    Events and decisions:
    • Simple event that creates Australia in 1901 (DEFINITELY needs to be rewritten if we will have colonies from the start)
    • Phar Lap (both Australia and NZ)
    • Breaker Morant's execution (if at war with TRN and/or ORA around 1900)
    • The Battle of Broken Hill (if at war with TUR around 1914)
    • Banjo Paterson (reworked from vanilla)
    • Decision: build Canberra (renames Eden Province and moves capital there in 10 years or so - sometimes it resets on reloading?)
    • Australian gold rushes (working very well)
    • Event to end the gold rush eventually and change local production to cattle, grain or wool (except places like Kalgoorlie)
    • Decision: The Service Doctrine. This needs explanation: it's named after Victorian Premier James Service, and gives cores on nearby Pacific islands and New Guinea so Australia so it can build an empire
    • Event: renaming of Palmerston to Darwin in 1911
    • QANTAS and the Flying Doctors
    • Cobb & Co
    • Archbishop Mannix of Melbourne
    • Grape planters in $PROVINCE$ (simulates the wine industry in places like Adelaide)
    • The discovery of phosphate in Nauru (random I know)

    Other stuff:
    • Political parties for Australia and New Zealand and the colonies
    • Reforms changed to historical (unless we roll them back)
    • Flags as above
    Last edited by chann; 14-09-2010 at 15:15.
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  11. #11
    Voter Colonel chann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dskod1 View Post
    ok after reading up on history evidently there were two kind of colonies,

    Free state (non convict labor)
    and
    Convict Labor

    Perhaps we can represent this through slavery?
    Possibly? We'd have to test it to make sure it has a sensible outcome, and it means removing Australian a non-accepted culture of the colonies I suppose, at least until transportation is abolished.

    Quote Originally Posted by dskod1 View Post
    Also something to back up my idea of satellite colonies

    "Constitutionally, New South Wales was founded as an autocracy run by the Governor, although he nearly always exercised his powers within the restraints of British law. In practice the early Governors ruled by consent, with the advice of military officers, officials and leading settlers."

    "In 1825 the New South Wales Legislative Council, Australia's oldest legislative body, was established, as an appointed body to advise the Governor."

    Also please note that the body did NOT become slight democrat until 1842. So I suggest a political system with no voting rights and upper house to be appointed and also slavery allowed with some states with not with other to represent convict labor.
    Agreed, see what I said above about Absolute Monarchy.

    Quote Originally Posted by dskod1 View Post
    I think that adelaide should be an upstart colony with australian, irish, and british settlers whilst the rest of south australia should be aboriginal.

    I think that queensland and northern territory should be mostly aboriginal as well although under NSW rule.
    Heh, Adelaide wasn't founded until December 1836. I think apart from adding Aussies, the POP setup is adequate. I'm at 1875 in a game using the latest POPDemand mod and every Australian province has at least 25% British culture (including the former all-Aboriginal provinces). Strangely WA has a higher population than SA and Victoria. But the situation may change if the provinces are given to the colonies instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by dskod1 View Post
    I think that when population hits a certain level there should be events fired at the australian colonies and britan about independance
    Independence in the real sense or in the creation of the Commonwealth? I got really carried away with notions of alternative federation - for instance, the colonies in the 1850s shot down the Colonial Secretary's idea for a continental assembly, which could have seriously united the colonies quite early on.

    Or if a rebellion succeeds in one colony it might try to form a revolutionary Australia and take over the others - why I was experimenting with Australia as a union tag.

    We can work in my Dominion mod, which means if your colony surrenders to rebels you also get the option of going independent.
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  12. #12
    Voter Colonel chann's Avatar
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    Preview of the colonies in their 1863-1911 configuration.

    I deleted their satellite status for this screenshot to remove the "BRITISH AUSTRALIA" normally blazoned across them.

    Each colony holds its cores, except South Australia, which holds the Northern Territory but has no cores on it. SA would receive that land from New South Wales by event once Queensland exists. (Maybe make it possible for the NT to be annexed by Queensland instead!)

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  13. #13
    Colonel dskod1's Avatar
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    yep I like that for that time period. I did some editing of your files to allow the starting colonies.

    Also I think there should be colony events fired at britain if they pass than for example in 1836 december adelaide is colonised (the event will add brit and australian pop types) also NSW will have an event where they either agree with the monarchy (South Australia is formed) or disagree and relations deteriorate as well as adelaide is not colonised

    I say if UK and a colonies relation gets to a certain low level UK will be given an event to reel the colony back in. UK will have a conquest CB on that colony
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  14. #14
    Voter Colonel chann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dskod1 View Post
    yep I like that for that time period. I did some editing of your files to allow the starting colonies.

    Also I think there should be colony events fired at britain if they pass than for example in 1836 december adelaide is colonised (the event will add brit and australian pop types) also NSW will have an event where they either agree with the monarchy (South Australia is formed) or disagree and relations deteriorate as well as adelaide is not colonised
    NSW shouldn't have a say in whether SA is created. The movement to colonise SA was well under way by the time the game starts (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Australia#History) and the New South Wales government certainly couldn't have stopped it even if they theoretically wanted control of the land for themselves - it was all unsettled anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by dskod1 View Post
    I say if UK and a colonies relation gets to a certain low level UK will be given an event to reel the colony back in. UK will have a conquest CB on that colony
    Take a look at the Dominion mod in my sig, it's a project I started focusing on Australian colonies but can be extrapolated to deal with all the British colonies. It allows the UK to optionally re-conquer colonies if they have a revolution and try to go independent.

    Actually a good idea for an event may be "Recalling the Governor of (colony)" which allows Britain to increase relations with a colony (replaces the governor with a pro-British one) but raises local MIL and CON.

    I'm not sure in practice how much the relations with satellites can fluctuate - certainly you're not allowed to raise and lower relations while you're a satellite.
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  15. #15
    I'm likely going to do some AST/NZL work for PDM, but I suspect I'll handle it slightly different. Primarily to avoid allocating new tags as they are a load on the CPU. So what I'm intending is to have cores handed out state-by-state similar to the CSA getting cores in Vanilla. So, for example, if the Australian settlers don't implement an "Australians First" policy (apartheid-light, really), then perhaps cores for NZL get handed to them. Likewise with British Guinea or other colonial possessions in the area. Then, depending on CON in the area or some other triggers with a decreasing factor as the date progresses and requiring at least mainland Australia, the country will release. If they don't get NZL, then at that time NZL will release separately (and will probably start the game with cores, so that Australia can end up releasing it after forming "Greater Australia".)

    Seems a bit less deterministic than the VIP method, and more suited to V2's style. That said! I do like the direction you guys are taking, and maybe end up asking to borrow flags if we go with multiple potential countries down there for an alt-hist non-Federalist situation. Depends on how fast things tend to run late game as to whether I'll include them or not, I think.

    Either way, good luck!

    -Atma

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by atmafox View Post
    I'm likely going to do some AST/NZL work for PDM, but I suspect I'll handle it slightly different. Primarily to avoid allocating new tags as they are a load on the CPU. So what I'm intending is to have cores handed out state-by-state similar to the CSA getting cores in Vanilla.
    I'm not sure about dskod1's ideas, but what I had in mind for Australian federation was the basic event-driven method (a la VIP1) with a similar mechanic that AST's inital cores change depending on whether the colonies agree to join or not. (If more than say 2 colonies refused to join, the idea would fall apart but could be tried again after a decade.) Various factors and issues would affect how soon the movement triggers.

    I do see the merit and in the lightweight solution though (with the tradeoff that you don't get to play as your favoured home state/colony and experience all the cool new flavour events. )

    Quote Originally Posted by atmafox View Post
    So, for example, if the Australian settlers don't implement an "Australians First" policy (apartheid-light, really), then perhaps cores for NZL get handed to them. Likewise with British Guinea or other colonial possessions in the area. Then, depending on CON in the area or some other triggers with a decreasing factor as the date progresses and requiring at least mainland Australia, the country will release. If they don't get NZL, then at that time NZL will release separately (and will probably start the game with cores, so that Australia can end up releasing it after forming "Greater Australia".)
    The colonies' minority policy pre-1900 was definitely a reason why 1) they had a spat with Britain over annexing New Guinea and 2) why New Zealand was reluctant to join. But obviously not the only reason. If I were to go that route I would be thinking, "do the people in this state want to be part of Australia now?", and looking at some of the factors I posted in the Dominion thread.
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    Second Lieutenant Teak II's Avatar
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    I know NZ isn't your top priority, but would you be interested in adding in separate countries for North and South Island too? During the 1860's there was a movement to make them two separate colonies, which could have become their own countries.
    I found the wikipedia article on South Island Nationalism, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Island_nationalism , to be very useful... they even have proposed flags.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teak II View Post
    I know NZ isn't your top priority, but would you be interested in adding in separate countries for North and South Island too? During the 1860's there was a movement to make them two separate colonies, which could have become their own countries.
    I found the wikipedia article on South Island Nationalism, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Island_nationalism , to be very useful... they even have proposed flags.
    Well, flags are 80% of the work

    Created a provisional South Island tag:



    I guess I can either incorporate it into this work or offer it up on its own.

    Is it sensible to just have NZ and South Island though? There aren't as many flags for North Island...
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  19. #19
    Colonel dskod1's Avatar
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    ok i am in agreement with your federation idea definatly

    and your right that it makes sense that the NSW couldn't do much but for example maybe they could protest the fact that they are losing this land. Not sure waht type of effect we could put for this though
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    Voter Colonel chann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dskod1 View Post
    and your right that it makes sense that the NSW couldn't do much but for example maybe they could protest the fact that they are losing this land. Not sure waht type of effect we could put for this though
    I agree there should be some alternative to reduce determinism of each colony being removed from NSW. The player just wants to hold onto their territory, dammit!

    Hmm... a couple of ideas:

    1) NSW can accept SA being created, or protest the decision, which adds to your infamy and reduces relations.

    At a certain (but low) level of infamy and/or negative relations an event will fire where Britain demands that the governor resign his commission (which wipes the slate clean and resets relations to 200). AI will almost always accept; the other option will be to refuse, which might lead to taking up arms and fighting Britain for independence

    2) QLD, VIC and SA will only be created if there is no infrastructure in their core provinces (like railways), no industry, and there are few or no non-Aborigines living there. So as NSW your goal would be to equally develop all those provinces to have a better chance of holding onto them. Then when Britain proposes to create the new colony, NSW has a better chance of asking to continue direct rule.
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