Children of the Sun - a Cuzco MEIOU AAR

[Alan deLane]

Ah but of course! Thanks for reminding me, I had pretty much forgotten about that decision because of the high cost, but in a rich province in need of conversion that's definitely worth it.

Hehe... Well, even if there are some annoyances I'm happy that they came over this time, this would be a bit dull if I'd never met any Europeans.

... and bit more stressful to get westernisation ...

Thankfully, they still seem to be quite far from the coast. But for how long?

On a side note: Had a battle with 'em yesterday. Me (HUN) defending in Varais against their main army (yeah, yeah, yeah! I'm playing Habsburg-styled ). The last fights were between my Artillery and their Cavalry ... guess how this ended ... (No, I didn't loose the army.) And for some time I went towards high-quality troops (NIs, sliders, etc.), but those Confederated ones are even better (besides them having western troops and HUN having eastern ones).

Portugal colonizing Africa... Well yeah, if one province in modern day Sierra Leone/Guinea counts.

Stupid bunch of Iberians: war[r]ing in Eastern Europe, Scandinavia & France instead of establishing first a big overseas empire and then ... WAIT! They have kinda "big overseas empire", haven't they ...

----
About the religions (in Europe):

• I'm not surprised, as I've noted that Reformation tends to end up in the North-Eastern part (Poland especially).
  
• France may choose the decision "Edit de Nantes" (IIRC), which often leads to a more mixed France in matters of confessions.

And a question: do you play with DG or without it?

Yours,
AdL

[blsteen]

A fleet!
And Spain is going whole hog on the colonization...

[morningSIDEr]

Very good stuff. YHC has me worried but the lack of models in your nation worries me far more. Quickly create a good fashion scene so as to attract models and thus bring about the creation of battleships before a large naval powers decides to attack!

[FinnishFish]

This is just epic ^^

and what the h***

Pieni Inka-intiaani ratsastaa!

I have never heard that before ;(

[Chief Ragusa]

Come on Inca start the war. Who is Portugal allied with that the mighty Incans fear them so? Can't the Inca ally with the mighty Mallorca and Switzerland?

[FlorisDeVijfde]

Too bad England is fragmented. A more divided North America would've been most helpful in your plans. However your Westernisation gives you a window of opportunity to tackle the Iberian expansion.

Good to see a large Netherlands by the way

[Boris ze Spider]

No matter what youre playing, anything east of Austria will look crazy.

[Malurous]

Lithuania looks so odd!

In an odd place maybe, but I think it looks pretty neat. Or what do you mean?

... and bit more stressful to get westernisation ...

I'm not sure stressful is the word... I think there might be too little stress in that situation!

Yeah no huge surprises on the religion front. It's funny to come in this late, everything looks so consolidated from the start.

And a question: do you play with DG or without it?

With.

A fleet!
And Spain is going whole hog on the colonization...

Yeah! I have no problem with Spain colonizing a lot, but they did it in an awkward place.

Very good stuff. YHC has me worried but the lack of models in your nation worries me far more. Quickly create a good fashion scene so as to attract models and thus bring about the creation of battleships before a large naval powers decides to attack!

Indeed! Quick, how do you attract models? Hmm, drugs I guess - phew, we have plenty of those in this region.

This is just epic ^^

Cheers.

Come on Inca start the war. Who is Portugal allied with that the mighty Incans fear them so? Can't the Inca ally with the mighty Mallorca and Switzerland?

Mallorca isn't quite strong enough and I fear that the ocean isn't Switzerland's thing.

I infiltrated the administration in Madrid, Spain has close to as many men in South America as I do. Only more than double the land tech levels, Western troops vs. New World and better generals. Attacking them would be utter suicide. It would take an eternity as I have ridiculous manpower, but they'd come through me eventually.

Now Portugal is very much different, I could bleed them dry pretty quickly I think. But they have the alliance with Spain protecting them.

Too bad England is fragmented. A more divided North America would've been most helpful in your plans. However your Westernisation gives you a window of opportunity to tackle the Iberian expansion.

Good to see a large Netherlands by the way

At least having less colonizers gives me more space.

I'm not sure how much of an opportunity it is, seeing the diplomacy and the military discrepancy. However, maybe I'm able to tech up fast enough and/or get the military modernization.

No matter what youre playing, anything east of Austria will look crazy.

Yup, that's how it tends to be.

[Alan deLane]

Some questions about the Inca's (land) military:

• What is their discipline value?
• What is their moral value?
• What are the stats of their units?

The military westernisation(s) come(s) in steps too, doesn't it?

Yours,
AdL

[blsteen]

I am like morningSIDEr disturbed by the apparent lack of young Incan hotties, nevertheless its good that your taken care of Malurous. Despite the dearth of models, I'm sure that the navy will prosper...eventually.
And nice to see that the Incan secret police are able to infilitrate the Spaniards...A little Mission Impossible style operation that would have perhaps been aided by a mysterious secret cult worshiping...He Who Will Not Be Named but Drives a Volkswagen!

[gabor]

Can you somehow get to Brasil bypassing Europeans? Dealing with the Netherlands alone shouldn't be such a big problem.

[Chief Ragusa]

If you can keep a spy infiltrating them whilst you are war with them, you could see where their men are going. If you let them come to you, attrition would wear them down. You could try to hit them after failed assaults. it would be bloody, but the Incans don't mind that.

i was thinking more along the lines of Mallorca and Swtizerland keeping Spain in check in Europe rather than landing troops in the Americas.

[Alan deLane]

If you can keep a spy infiltrating them whilst you are war with them, you could see where their men are going. If you let them come to you, attrition would wear them down. You could try to hit them after failed assaults. it would be bloody, but the Incans don't mind that.

i was thinking more along the lines of Mallorca and Swtizerland keeping Spain in check in Europe rather than landing troops in the Americas.

I'd rather suggest England or France, but both have their own problems, - so they're both out. How about Tuscani, Sicily, the Netherlands ... or even the Mamlucks as potential allies in a coming Inca-Spanish/Portugese War?

And who has a fleet big enough to threaten Spain/Portugal?

... alternativly, you could follow the old maxim: "Bella gerant alii, tu felix Inca nube!"

Yours,
AdL

[Mr. Sometimes]

I think the lack of models and the resurfacing of YHC are connected.

As we all know all the hot inca ladies were groupies of YHC while he was around, and when he "died" it must have almost destroyed. Therefore I think that all beautiful women have since then been part of a great underground blood cult dedicated to bring back YCH through massive human sacrifices in their secret temples hidden deep in the jungles of South America!

[Malurous]

Some questions about the Inca's (land) military:

• What is their discipline value?
• What is their moral value?
• What are the stats of their units?

Our morale is 5.2 and discipline 104 %, don't know about the other nations but they have 1.4 more morale than me from technology and lack 0.5 as they don't have Military Drill.

As for the stats, here are the unit pips and tech level modifiers for the Inca, Spain and Portugal:

Infantry

	Inca	Spain	Portugal
OF	2	6	6
DF	2	6	6
OS	3	6	6
DS	3	6	6
OM	3	4	4
DM	3	5	5
fire	0.3	0.9	0.8
shock	0.6	1	1

Cavalry

	Inca	Spain	Portugal
OF	4	3	3
DF	4	2	2
OS	4	7	7
DS	4	5	5
OM	4	4	4
DM	2	3	3
fire	0.1	0.25	0.25
shock	1.9	3.6	3.7

They also have 2 military tactics versus 1 for me.

The military westernisation(s) come(s) in steps too, doesn't it?

No. It's possible to do in steps (i.e. if you have ROTW troops and have westernized to Muslim tech, you can switch to Muslim units) but when you're Western tech group, you get Western troops with one decision.

I am like morningSIDEr disturbed by the apparent lack of young Incan hotties, nevertheless its good that your taken care of Malurous. Despite the dearth of models, I'm sure that the navy will prosper...eventually.
And nice to see that the Incan secret police are able to infilitrate the Spaniards...A little Mission Impossible style operation that would have perhaps been aided by a mysterious secret cult worshiping...He Who Will Not Be Named but Drives a Volkswagen!

Or an Audi. Because I spotted a different YHCmobile today, and it was in the same parking lot as the previous one to boot!

Can you somehow get to Brasil bypassing Europeans? Dealing with the Netherlands alone shouldn't be such a big problem.

Yes. I did start the colonizing push east in the last update. Unless I find a way to deal with the Iberians, I'll continue that way. Of course, that doesn't solve the problem of Iberians blocking my land connection attempts.

If you can keep a spy infiltrating them whilst you are war with them, you could see where their men are going. If you let them come to you, attrition would wear them down. You could try to hit them after failed assaults. it would be bloody, but the Incans don't mind that.

We certainly don't, not with our next to endless supply. But I fear that I'd hit max WE eventually: I'd need more troops in battles than I can possibly combine from adjacent provinces, and due to long travel times wouldn't always be able to separate them between battles, meaning that I'd have to keep stacks that are too large for long times. The enemies have way bigger supply limits with their tech, and wouldn't need as many men either. I have lots of troops, but not enough to both keep the enemy at bay and handle the rebellions that would surely occur. The fact that the enemy would control the seas makes that worse as shipping troops would be impossible.

The alternative - a better one probably - of letting them deep into my territory would also have the same rebel consequences eventually.

Hitting after assaults is of course a good idea in principle, but as they probably wouldn't assault if I have troops in an adjacent province, it would take a few months for my men to arrive in such a situation, seeing the travel times.

Another thing to consider is that Infiltrate Administration shows their territory only, right? So surprise attacks through vacant land would still be possible.

Of course, should I decide to attack them, I'd fight the war pretty much like you suggest.

i was thinking more along the lines of Mallorca and Swtizerland keeping Spain in check in Europe rather than landing troops in the Americas.

It doesn't really matter to me if they're kept in check in Europe or not. They already have plenty of troops in the Americas, and I doubt they'd ship them back to Europe if they were at war with me.

I'd rather suggest England or France, but both have their own problems, - so they're both out. How about Tuscani, Sicily, the Netherlands ... or even the Mamlucks as potential allies in a coming Inca-Spanish/Portugese War?

Tuscany is also allied with the enemy. Netherlands are Impossible, the others aren't strong enough, especially in naval matters. Of course I might ally some as a distraction.

And who has a fleet big enough to threaten Spain/Portugal?

Netherlands, which won't ally me, and Tuscany, who's allied with them. Those four are the only Europeans with a significant naval presence. Together, the three would blow any opposition out of the water (couldn't resist ).

... alternativly, you could follow the old maxim: "Bella gerant alii, tu felix Inca nube!"

There are two nations that I can see available for royal marriage: Tlacopan and Mutapa. To make matters worse, both are federations so it isn't much use. Other than that, heathens only.

I think the lack of models and the resurfacing of YHC are connected.

As we all know all the hot inca ladies were groupies of YHC while he was around, and when he "died" it must have almost destroyed. Therefore I think that all beautiful women have since then been part of a great underground blood cult dedicated to bring back YCH through massive human sacrifices in their secret temples hidden deep in the jungles of South America!

Excellent theory. It might be that the hot Inca women are following YHC and somehow know where to go (much like the horses knew how to go to South America).

Come to think of it, I've seen more hot women around here than usual lately. I think that started pretty much when YHC started parking his cars here.

[Alan deLane]

On military westernisation: saves time, ain't it?

On stats: and better not fight against 'em, - yet.

On alliances: hmm. Makes it all more complicated. My advice, revisted: nope! I cannot give you any as my candidate of choice, the Netherlands, is out too.

On marriages: Silly me! Should have considered the Inca's religion ...

Yours,
AdL

EDIT: There's a decision called "Enact Prussian Military Reforms" (giving +20 discipline & -10% land attrition). If either Spain or Portugal have it, BEWARE!

[Chief Ragusa]

You can see where they all start off from, except those already in vacant lands and you can see where troops are being built. That gives you an advantage. Their troops still have to reach you. They can't all turn up all at once. if they commit in peny packets, you'll destroy them in detail. Their larger forces will get them WE faster than you becuse they're operating in your lands and should be operating out of supply after you've taken their eastern seaboard colonies for yourself.

You look as though you're operating at a 3-1 inbalance of forces. You ought to be able to get the odds on your side in theatre. As for allying with other nations just build relations with them. If they're impossible, don't worry that's just standard fare for the human player in paradox games. Just try to ally with them. They'll turn you down, but don't be surprised if a few days later they offer you an alliance.

Hey don't turn you nose up at the chance of marrying into and later inheriting the gold fields of Mutapa or the chance to direct hordes of pagan rebels into other lands.

[Malurous]

On stats: and better not fight against 'em, - yet.

THIS. The fortunate thing, however, is that I'm going to catch them big time - I have neighbor bonuses and I'm filthy rich. The unfortunate thing is that those Spanish colonies will grow to a city before I can hope to take them on.

EDIT: There's a decision called "Enact Prussian Military Reforms" (giving +20 discipline & -10% land attrition). If either Spain or Portugal have it, BEWARE!

Hmm true... They're only a bit away from it being available (land tech 30), hopefully they won't fulfill the other conditions when they get the tech.

You can see where they all start off from, except those already in vacant lands and you can see where troops are being built. That gives you an advantage. Their troops still have to reach you. They can't all turn up all at once. if they commit in peny packets, you'll destroy them in detail.

There's TI left, I don't see there.

They're stupid enough to send those tiny armies every once in a while, but they're also not stupid enough to do it all the time. Eventually they'll send a big army and that should be close to invincible in these circumstances and at land 29 vs. 11 and Western vs. New World. Letting it attrit isn't that useful if I can't eliminate the weakened army - I'd likely need a large force running after them for some distance, and something tells me that their other armies wouldn't let me do such a thing.

Like Alan deLane said, it's better to not fight yet.

Their larger forces will get them WE faster than you becuse they're operating in your lands and should be operating out of supply after you've taken their eastern seaboard colonies for yourself.

The only colonies are the Panama region, rest is full cities, so they wouldn't be out of supply before it's too late. They'd get WE but so would I, and their naval superiority would get me in rebel trouble as I couldn't move fast. It's the AI so they'd likely get in rebel trouble too, but while that would do them harm, I don't think it would do me much good.

First order of business for me is to get my side of the border to city status and fortified. Otherwise a quick DoW would cost me colonies, not them. After that, I'm confident that I could fight them to a stalemate after years of bloodshed, but that would do absolutely no good. If I want to get land from them without reaching Europe, I'm going to have to utterly crush them in the Americas. So I need to fight a war where I can end up on a true offensive, something I'm not necessarily capable of because of how the stats are. And if I tried to seize their colonies early, I'd spread myself thin, get even more attrition, and there would still be no guarantees as they could simply land troops behind me to retake their land.

You look as though you're operating at a 3-1 inbalance of forces. You ought to be able to get the odds on your side in theatre.

Not true. They have maybe 40000 troops in South America right now (I don't know the exact figure as there's some TI left in their territory and they move around a lot) versus my 70000, while Central America has Portugal on both sides - I can't move much away from there, especially since both Iberians as well as Tuscany could potentially land more. Except for Portugal, they have a good number of transports so moving a big army would be possible.

As for allying with other nations just build relations with them. If they're impossible, don't worry that's just standard fare for the human player in paradox games. Just try to ally with them. They'll turn you down, but don't be surprised if a few days later they offer you an alliance.

It's possible that they do, but I doubt it given the distance, different religion group etc.

Relations aren't the problem - I seem to have started with very high relations with most European nations for some reason. While all that unlikely-maybe-likely stuff can be kind of fishy, impossible is absolute. No point working on that angle, though I might check again later.

Hey don't turn you nose up at the chance of marrying into and later inheriting the gold fields of Mutapa or the chance to direct hordes of pagan rebels into other lands.

I don't turn my nose up, the problem is that it's impossible. They're a federation, their leadership isn't hereditary.

[Alan deLane]

Another issue you should take into consideration:

• What is/are the typical composition/s of larger Spanish/Portugese armies?
• Tons of "Dons" on horses with some vaqueros and tech-vaqueros or a more balanced composition?

Fought yesterday a battle against Genoa in the 1620s, lost my first battle (15,000 own: 3,000 cav, 9,000 inf 3,000 art; level 34/35/36 eastern military units) against 17,000 cav, 2,000-4,000 inf and 1,000 art of similar level. I (HUN) was attacker, them (GEN) were defender. After I brought two more armies (for a total of about 45,000 troops), I could beat them, - yet they could retreat. But one of my army was faster: .

Yours,
AdL

P.S. My army composition are for a time tailored for the switch towards western unit types, hence the 1/5 cavalry percentage.

[MannheimCouncil]

EDIT: There's a decision called "Enact Prussian Military Reforms" (giving +20 discipline & -10% land attrition). If either Spain or Portugal have it, BEWARE!

I don't think Malurous has to worry about this one. He plays an older version and as far as I know this decision was made universal only after the Venetian ones, wasn't it?