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Thread: Mexico for NOOBs - a learning/gameplay AAR

  1. #1
    Colonel badger_ken's Avatar
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    Mexico for NOOBs - a learning/gameplay AAR

    Hello everyone, and welcome to a semi-clueless exploration of playing Mexico in Victoria 2! Hope you enjoy it - I've certainly enjoyed the other AARs in this forum, and hope this can repay things a little.

    I played Eu3 a good bit (see my Hungary and Venice AARs), but this is my first foray into Victoria 2, which is one complex puppy, so hopefully we can all learn together.

    This is playing totally vanilla 1.1 - I wanted to wait for the MOD/patch dust to settle a little before picking anything.

    Why Mexico? Well, two reasons: first, I find it helps when starting a game like this to play a power that can ignore certain parts of the game - as Mexico, the naval and colonization parts are not a factor. Second, after playing the demo a few times and regularly slapping Mexico around like, well, a pinata, I felt the urge to return the favor.

    Which brings me to my goals in this game. As I see it, there are basically two ways to play Mexico:

    1) "Poor Mexico, so far from God and so close to the United States!" - first attributed to Porfirio Diaz, who was Mexican president from 1876 to 1911. In this rather masochistic adventure, we would try to haul Mexico up bit by bit, as essentially a poorer version of the US, which we hope will let us alone.

    2) "Peasant Power". We don't need no stinking factories! Mexico's policy will always be focused diplomatically on damaging the cursed Yankee, and economically on the peasants and soldiers.

    I'm going to try "Peasant power" (a.k.a. "poder campesino" - I haven't decided yet how much of my Spanish I'll inflict on you , mainly because I think it'll be more fun/informative.

    This means that:
    Economically, I'm going to try and have a nation composed of poor and middle class (clergy and soldiers are just fine), and no rich. Let 'em go. What my peasants can't make, I'll buy on the world market, hopefully the goods the peasants crank out will be enough.

    Diplomatically, I'll try to keep the USCA happy (they don't do me much good as a friend, but are a second front as an enemy), and focus all my attention on the US. I'll try to make friends with the UK, as it's the only country that can really militarily pose a threat to the US, and also hopefully it can sell me the goods I don't make - I may even try to get into their sphere.

    Militarily, I'm going to try and overwhelm the cursed Yankees with quantity.

    My hope is that American slavery will be their undoing - I'm going to try to hold my ground until the civil war (yeah, this is a bit gamey, I try to avoid this kind of thing, but it seems reasonable in this case), and then try to smash 'em.

    On with our show!
    Last edited by badger_ken; 28-08-2010 at 07:19.

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  3. #3
    Colonel badger_ken's Avatar
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    Chapter I: in the beginning

    Chaper 1: in the beginning

    This map shows the initial situation - Mexico still owns a goodly chunk above the Rio Grande, while the USA is spreading westwards. The dastardly Texans have just declared independence - first order of business will be to squash that nonsense.



    We don't need no stinking factories....



    A good chunk of the middle class (mainly the artisans -odd that many are getting their luxury_needs satisfied, but not their basic ones) isn't gettings its basic needs met, and we're running a deficit right off the bat.



    Mexico has around 2.2 million people, mainly farmers:



    While in Eu3 it was a pretty bad thing to ever go into debt, in Victoria 2, at least in the early stages, it seems pretty mild. Especialy because the Economic system still has me pretty baffled, I decide to largely ignore it for now.

    I send my main army (9K strong, under Santa Ana) into Texas, to fight the Texan army....



    and to my amazement, I soundly thrash it, and then destroy it! I'm not sure if this was just luck, or to be expected, but things are going very well, very quickly. I quickly recapture Texas, and by the end of 1836, Texas is back in the fold!



    My second step in "operation: death to the yankees" is to colonize where the US isn't. The US is colonizing Oklahoma and Oregon (and the UK is colonizing Washington), so I step on in, and colonize Colorado - it uses my only national focus point, but seems worth it, as by mid 1837 Colorado joins the fold:



    Amazingly, by early 1838, I am considered a Great Power! Wow, that was easier than I expected!



    Things go from good to better, as I discover "Freedom of Trade", which along with a series of gold discoveries in Mexico (was this just luck?) have me swimming in dough - check it out



    three things to notice here:
    1) Check out the big gold influx - nearly 1/3 of my income is from gold!

    2) Even though I cranked the taxes way down on the middle class, there is still a significant segment not getting its basic needs met

    3) I am swimming in money, lending it out to a variety of other nations, and with a healthy stockpile. My early decision to ignore the debt definitely worked out, as I easily paid the money back within 6 months of the war ending, and am now a creditor. (Oh, and what does it mean that "Atjeh" is in red? I couldn't find this in the manual or strategy guide anywhere...)

    Things go from better to best, as I repeat my Colorado maneuver and grab southern Idaho. (whoops, forgot to screen grab)

    Things go form best to bester, as now that I am a great power, I rapidly add the USCA to my sphere of influence - while I don't really need their goods, I'm hoping this will help deter them from attacking me.



    So here we are at the start of 1839 - the first 3 years have gone better than I imagined:



    On to the next chapter.....
    Last edited by badger_ken; 28-08-2010 at 07:16. Reason: tweaks

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    Chapter 2: Questions, Questions, Questions

    Chapter 2: Questions, Questions, Questions

    OK, it's 1839, and I think it's time to finally try and figure out what's going on with the economy. I still have no factories, but my capitalists are busily building a whole bunch of bad ones , sigh:



    Even with low taxes, and piles of dough, I still have a decent chunk of the middle class that's not getting it's life needs met (see the image in my previous post, or just trust me, it's around 10% I'd guess of the middle class) - I try to figure out what's going on.

    Looking at a representative such pop (Artisans in Oaxaca, making paper), I see that they don't have the money to buy their life needs. This confuses me mightily:



    Here's how I parse this - is this correct?

    1) I see that they are _not_ unemployed, and that they make 1.20 (per day, I guess), of which they spend 1.05. Why don't they spend all 1.20 - is this because of my taxes? And what's with the 0.13 'cash'?

    2) the tooltip says that they can buy 4.3% of their life needs. If I add up the 'need' (obscured by the tooltip, sorry) of what they need with the 'unit price' (why oh why doesn't the game do this for me?), I get:
    Wool. 0.02 @ 0.567
    Cattle 0.02 @ 1.98
    Fish 0.02 @ 1.365
    Fruit 0.02 @ 1.476
    Grain 0.04 @ 2.090

    which according to the Windows calculator, sums up to 0.191. Which is far less than the 1.20 they make. Huh? Anyone?


    On a higher level, I try to figure out what goods I'm lacking. The tooltip tells me
    that my top 3 needed goods are Tea, Coal, and Tobacco. And by hovering over said goods, I can see that Tea is mainly produced by (China, UK, Japan, Panjab, Nepal), Coal by (China, Prussia, Austria, France, UK), and Tobacco by (USA, UK, France, Japan, Spain). Now, does this mean _producer_, or _exporter_? How much of the UK's coal, for example, does the UK keep for itself? Anyone, anyone?

    And how could I have figured out that I need these three goods, other than via the tooltip? And what if I wanted to figure out, say, the 4th most needed good? If I look at the "Needs" tab on the trade menu, I see for example that I need 64.51 units of grain
    . However, on the production tab, I see that I produce 90.3 units
    . However, 90.3 - 64.51 = 25.79 - so why does the tooltip say that I exported 34.36? Anyone, anyone? And is there a way to find out _net_ demand, other than by manually clicking from "Trade" to "Production" screen for every single good? Ya got me.

    But, ok, so I need Tea. Is there a way, other than madly clicking over the entire map, to find out where Tea is grown?

    Enough with the ever-so-fascinating economic questions, on to the higher-level strategic questions - I welcome your input:

    1) I have one NF point now. Any tips? I am still far below the number of clergy I'd like - place it there?

    2) I am planning to now steadily but slowly grow the military - I am far below my military threshold (14/34, I think), but want to do it slowly so as not to put a huge sudden demand spike on their goods. I still can't build cavalry, after much agonizing I decided to put my 2nd research into "experimental railroad", for the movement and production bonuses. cavalry might well come next. Sound good?

    3) Who should I cozy up to get my coal/tea/tobacco fixes? Most of the main exporters are Great Powers, is there a smart way to find good minor powers that I could get into my SOI?

    4) And, most of all, what to do about the US? Sit still until the ACW breaks out, which could be 20 years? How can I screw 'em up before that? Can I, for example, discredit them with the UK?

    Thanks for any input! Until next time!

  5. #5
    USCA is not a good target for conquest? If it is, would placing them in your sphere make it difficult to attack them in the future? Is conquest of South America a possibility for you, rather than smashing the Gringos? Is Oklahoma open to colonization still?

    I think your idea to befriend the British is especially good. Of all the European powers, they're the ones that seem to potentially offer the most help to Mexico. They could also be useful as a counter to the French, Spanish, and Dutch if you choose to expand into the Caribbean and southward.

    Regards,
    Eikinskjaldi

  6. #6
    Ooh, Mexico. I just had a Spainish test yesterday.
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  7. #7
    Captain thatguy's Avatar

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    I'd say bringing China and Brazil into your sphere would be a good idea.
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  8. #8
    Hmmm, you had a damn lucky start!

    In my actual game I have lost the col. race in Oregon so I switched to Colorado. After years of waiting I have got Colorado but I am still a secondary power...
    And now the damn liberals are in power... cant do anything, my industrial score is zero, the capitalists arent able to build up anything...

    Attacking US would be suicide, even is this early state, attacking your south neighbor wont give you anything good. Any other good war targets?

  9. #9
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    Great AAR. Mexico is the country I'm going to try myself as my first game, so I'm going to follow this AAR closely!

    I think your spot on in that befriending the British will be of great value when it comes to tackling the USA, and as someone else suggested, bringing China and Brazil into your sphere is also a good idea. Attacking the USCA to the south, probably isn't going to yield anything of great value, your probably better off waiting until the American Civil War, aligning yourself with the CSA, then try to get British into the war, and the three of you could bring down the USA.

  10. #10
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    Question Opaque algorithm for economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by badger_ken View Post
    2) the tooltip says that they can buy 4.3% of their life needs. If I add up the 'need' (obscured by the tooltip, sorry) of what they need with the 'unit price' (why oh why doesn't the game do this for me?), I get:
    Wool. 0.02 @ 0.567
    Cattle 0.02 @ 1.98
    Fish 0.02 @ 1.365
    Fruit 0.02 @ 1.476
    Grain 0.04 @ 2.090

    which according to the Windows calculator, sums up to 0.191. Which is far less than the 1.20 they make. Huh? Anyone?
    I appreciate an AAR geared toward the beginner. Even someone with a post-graduate degree gets a bit overwhelmed with the complexity of this game.

    Your math looks correct, and the interface is opaque as to how these numbers are generated. The only thing I can think of is that there may need to be a population level multiplier that needs to be factored in. I'll be eagerly following your AAR to see if you discover how the needs based economic matrix works, because it's impossible to be strategic about an important aspect of the game that seems to function like a black box.
    Last edited by aquinothomas; 28-08-2010 at 19:09.

  11. #11
    Comte de Purchase Merrick Chance''s Avatar
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    You're probably overexporting because, due to tariffs, it's worth more to sell to foreigners than locals.

    In real life, what generally happens after they sell money to foreigners is spend it, which goes into the economy, which other people can then use to buy food. That, or they expand and buy new tractors/etc, and produce more. But that would be insane for V2 to simulate sooo
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kargos View Post
    your probably better off waiting until the American Civil War, aligning yourself with the CSA, then try to get British into the war, and the three of you could bring down the USA.
    Well, the CSA with the 3 or 6 brigades doesnt matter most of the time

    But how do you get the Brits into war? In all my games the Brits are fighting in India/China (and almost successfully...). They never join a big war (ok, may be Netherlands) and they have much interests in the USA. And they wont build a alliance with another great power

    How do you get it? Raise the relations to 200? being friendly?

  13. #13
    Colonel badger_ken's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input everyone! the fact that only brave aquinothomas ventured an answer to any of my game questions I will interpret as a sign that it's not just me


    Quote Originally Posted by Eikinskjaldi View Post
    USCA is not a good target for conquest? If it is, would placing them in your sphere make it difficult to attack them in the future? Is conquest of South America a possibility for you, rather than smashing the Gringos?
    I want to stay focused on smashing Gringos, for now, that seemed difficult enough for starters

    Quote Originally Posted by Eikinskjaldi View Post
    Is Oklahoma open to colonization still?
    No, USA is about 2/3 of the way through colonizing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eikinskjaldi View Post
    I think your idea to befriend the British is especially good. ....
    Quote Originally Posted by Kargos View Post
    I think your spot on in that befriending the British will be of great value...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zghuk View Post
    But how do you get the Brits into war? In all my games the Brits are fighting in India/China (and almost successfully...). They never join a big war (ok, may be Netherlands) and they have much interests in the USA. And they wont build a alliance with another great power

    How do you get it? Raise the relations to 200? being friendly?
    Gracias companeros! I regret that I was foolish enough to become a great power , which will keep me from climbing into the UKs sphere of interest, but otherwise I'm going to see what I can do to entice them into allying with me. As Zghuk mentions, it may not be acheivable, but let's see....

    Quote Originally Posted by BeardedHoplite View Post
    Ooh, Mexico. I just had a Spainish test yesterday.
    pop quiz: translate the following: "aqui, alla, el yanqui morira" (sorry I can't see how to put accent characters in this forum ).

    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    I'd say bringing China and Brazil into your sphere would be a good idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kargos View Post
    bringing China and Brazil into your sphere is also a good idea
    Good advice! I'm not sure what Brazil will gain me, don't they have roughly the same import/export needs as I do? But I shall check it out. And if they're in my sphere, they're not in the Gringos!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zghuk View Post
    Hmmm, you had a damn lucky start!

    In my actual game I have lost the col. race in Oregon so I switched to Colorado. After years of waiting I have got Colorado but I am still a secondary power...
    And now the damn liberals are in power... cant do anything, my industrial score is zero, the capitalists arent able to build up anything...

    Attacking US would be suicide, even is this early state, attacking your south neighbor wont give you anything good. Any other good war targets?
    Re 'damn lucky' - much though I would love to attribute it to my superior skill, I think you're right, especially the wave of gold strikes. I'm thinking of playing the start-of-game 10 times and seeing how many times Santa Ana beats Sam Houson.

    Re attacking US and attacking southern neighbor - I agree on both counts.


    Quote Originally Posted by aquinothomas View Post
    I appreciate an AAR geared toward the beginner. Even someone with a post-graduate degree gets a bit overwhelmed with the complexity of this game.

    Your math looks correct, and the interface is opaque as to how these numbers are generated. The only thing I can think of is that there may need to be a population level multiplier that needs to be factored in. I'll be eagerly following your AAR to see if you discover how the needs based economic matrix works, because it's impossible to be strategic about an important aspect of the game that seems to function like a black box.
    Thanks for your input, oh fellow holder of a post-graduate degree .
    The idea of multiplying by population makes total sense, however if you look at the screen grab there are 1710 people in that POP, and 0.191*1710*4.3% = 14.04, which is nowhere near any number on the screen. The hunt continues .

    I don't mind a complex system per se, but the numbers just don't make sense!

    Quote Originally Posted by Merrick Chance' View Post
    You're probably overexporting because, due to tariffs, it's worth more to sell to foreigners than locals.
    I don't think that's it, if you look on other threads (like this one), it's pointed out that the external market is only resorted to when the internal market cannot provide the good, regardless of tariff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zghuk View Post
    Well, the CSA with the 3 or 6 brigades doesnt matter most of the time
    Yes, I'm hoping that was just a bug in the demo, if that happens 'for real' I'll be very disappointed....

    I'm hoping for another round of playing today - stay tuned!

  14. #14
    Colonel Alan deLane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger_ken View Post
    2) the tooltip says that they can buy 4.3% of their life needs. If I add up the 'need' (obscured by the tooltip, sorry) of what they need with the 'unit price' (why oh why doesn't the game do this for me?), I get:
    Wool. 0.02 @ 0.567
    Cattle 0.02 @ 1.98
    Fish 0.02 @ 1.365
    Fruit 0.02 @ 1.476
    Grain 0.04 @ 2.090

    which according to the Windows calculator, sums up to 0.191. Which is far less than the 1.20 they make. Huh? Anyone?
    In/on the Trade screen, there is a little box "Allow POPs/Factory to buy domestic goods". Check/flag it, and your POPs should be able to buy more goods, as they do not have to pay the tariffs.

    Btw, if you want "peasant power", set taxes for the Rich Strata to 100%, and after some time, none of them should be left (though I wouldn't recommend you this unless you aim a communist Mexico).

    Yours,
    AdL

    P.S. I discovered only yesterday that little box I mentioned above.
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    Chapter 3: diplomacy is a continuation of war by other means...

    Chapter 3: diplomacy is a continuation of war by other means...

    It's 1839, and things have gone swimmingly well for Mexico so far, however the time is not right to declare war on the cursed Gringos. So I decide to shift the conflict to the diplomatic sphere, as now that I am a Great Power I can play in that game.

    I start by trying to influence both Japan and China (for access to their tea, mainly), when I notice that I am gaining "0.0" influence points per day in China -

    China is so large that I can't really influence it - nice touch! So instead I focus on (a) Japan, and (b) screwing up the US - expelling its advisors, discrediting them, etc. I'll spare you a lot of screen grabs of dialog boxes, suffice to say that from 1839-1845 the net result is that:
    1. Japan enters my SOI. Yes!
    2. Haiti enters my SOI. Better me than the gringos....
    3. I accept an alliance offer form the USCA.
    4. I get my relation with the UK up to 172, which seems to do me no good at all. This may just be a big waste of time
    5. The US adds - nobody! Bwa ha ha

    Technology/National Focus report

    I'm not really sure what to do with my National Focus, and decide that when in doubt, getting more research is never a bad idea. I pick my most populous province and encourage clergymen there. My RP goes from 4.2 to 6.4 per day in this 10 year period. Is there a better way to pick which province to encourage other than population-based?

    On the technology front, I go mainly "breadth-first", as I'm still not progressing that rapidly compared to some other nations, and so I snarf up the cheap ones, focusing on (a) productivity growth, and (b) the army. I wind up getting:
    • 1841 - experimental railroad
    • 1843 - military staff system (cavalry)
    • 1845 - basic chemistry (pre-req for medicine)
    • 1848 - medicine

    Military report

    While at peace throughout, I steadily gear up for the Gringo smackdown - I build 4 brigades per year, and by the end of this period am just below my maximum army size (49 of 52, I think). Once I discover cavalry, most of the new builds are cavalry - the US is huge and I want to be able to swarm over it.


    Random weird/interesting stuff report

    Two things in the "how about that" category this time:

    1) When loading the game, I happen to notice that .....
    tiny Hesse-Kassel is the #7 power, and Oldenburg is the #9! Must be cultural prestige - I wonder if they will return to the mean as the game progresses?

    2) I thought I understood the political system in this game, but evidently not - the "general election" campaign has nothing to do with the "upper house". In both 1840 and 1845 the Liberal party wins smashing victories (getting 90% of the vote in 1845!), and hence becomes the 'ruling party':


    However not just the upper house, but the people's and voter's ideologies, are firmly conservative:


    I'm starting to think that the general election results are all determined by the stands I take on those little "electoral issues" decisions almost exclusively, it's possible I always go liberal on those (I always choose the option that angers the fewest people, which seems kindof a bleeding heart liberal thing to do ).


    The US drifts towards civil war

    All the above is against the background, the drum-beat if you will, of the US sliding towards civil war, a slide I am thoroughly in favor of - dissolve faster, won't you?
    • 1843 - the 'Corwin amendment' - "The measure is desparate, but so are the times"
    • 1844 - the Dred Scott decision
    • 1845 - I get an "acquire state" CB on the US - yes!
    • 1846 - John Brown's last raid

    And then, the first day of November, 1849, I happen to spy with my little eye an alliance offer, from a strange new flag -

    Could that be the CSA? Be still my beating heart! I look through the message logs, and find that out that sure enough, the CSA has just been founded:



    (Note: make sure to set this event to 'popup and pause' when starting a game, it was pure luck that i happened to spy the alliance offer right away).

    Here's the map of the situation:



    A few things to note here:
    1. The British have Washington state.
    2. Oklahoma joined the CSA. Makes sense, I guess
    3. Florida stayed in the Union. Odd, this also happened regularly in the demo
    4. Note all the cross-hatching in glorious northern mexico - "Manifest Destiny" gave the US claims on my territories. The dogs!

    I think this is a perfect place to stop. Any kbitizing as to what my war goals/strategy should be are welcome. Presently my army roughly consists of
    • a reserve army of around 30K, guarding Mexico City/Veracruz
    • an army of around 45K in Texas
    • an army of around 30K in Colorado
    • an army of around 20K split around California/Idaho

    All I see of the US army is that it had 3K soldiers in Oregon for a long time - their overall rank shows their army as roughly 2/3 the size of mine. I'm assuming the worst, that the CSA army is nearly non-existent

  16. #16
    Colonel Adaml83's Avatar
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    I think you may have a chance to gobble up much of the Western US, though you have to watch out for the US gobbling up the CSA, they did it quickly in my Brazil game.

  17. #17
    Alien Space Bat PrawnStar's Avatar
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    I'd guess at using your main forces to keep the CSA alive until they can look after themseves and run riot in the West grabbing what you can.


    Apparently I need to buy some more gravel.


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  18. #18
    Colonel badger_ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan deLane View Post
    In/on the Trade screen, there is a little box "Allow POPs/Factory to buy domestic goods". Check/flag it, and your POPs should be able to buy more goods, as they do not have to pay the tariffs.

    Btw, if you want "peasant power", set taxes for the Rich Strata to 100%, and after some time, none of them should be left (though I wouldn't recommend you this unless you aim a communist Mexico).

    Yours,
    AdL

    P.S. I discovered only yesterday that little box I mentioned above.
    That box allows your POPs/factories to buy from your national stockpile, which is different - the stockpile are the goods that you bought on the world market "for a rainy day". So I don't think that's what does it, sadly

    Yes, I did hike the taxes on the rich back up, though they are now capped at a paltry 50% of max (so something like 12% effective) by my liberal government .

  19. #19
    Colonel badger_ken's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIVictoria 2Warlock: Master of the Arcane

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    Chapter 4: War against the US

    Chapter 4: War against the US

    At the end of the last chapter, the CSA had just formed, giving me the perfect opportunity to finally wreak havoc on the Gringos!

    First things first, I move my military pay slider up to 100%:



    also note the 222K money I have stashed away, and the huge gold income. Nice....

    I then mobilize the reserves, and it's DOW time!

    The only CB I have is "acquire state", although really I would like "cut them down to size", acquiring a few states, say all those west of the mississippi should do nicely. Oddly, the only state shown west of the Miss. is "Northern idaho", I don't figure this out until a lot later....



    For now I shrug and say that my war goal is acquiring "Northern Idaho" I figger I can always add more war goals later), and I DOW!

    I take a look at the map, and see....



    Gulp, somehow the US got 23K soldiers in Oregon! I rethink my strategy, which is now:
    • rush to Richmond to protect it - let the CSA get on its feet
    • hold the line in the west
    • go crazy in the middle

    The strategy winds up going completely haywire. It appears that the AI (1) much prefers a few big stacks, and (2) really really hates it when you seige a province. Put these two together, and what the US wound up doing was this:
    1) the US army actually lost (narrowly) to the CSA outside Richmond (yay!). At which point it got on the railroad and started heading full speed west, towards Kansas (the "go crazy" area), going faster than I could catch it.

    2) The US army defeated my army in Nevada - I was too spread out (booh). At which point it started racing full spead east, towards Kansas, going faster than I could catch it.

    This wound up with a crazy series of battles where his 2 armies would beat one of mine, but then mine would get reinforced and beat his, but then his would reinforced and beat mine, and then mine would get reinforced and beat his, etc. It was quite the slugfest.
    I'll spare you the screen grabs, suffice to say that between February and September 1850, I fight the US in 10 significant engagements in the Missouri/Kansas/Nebraska area, winning 8 and losing 2, and suffering 34K casualties (over 50% of my army) but inflicting 45K (all of his) - by the end of September 1850, the Union army is no more!

    In the middle of all this, in May, I get a very welcome note, as ....

    The UK DOWs the USA! I don't know if this has anything to do with my "172" relations with them, or whether the UK is just being opportunistic (the UK is doing very well so far), but I'll take it!

    The only fly in the ointment here is that I wound up doing nearly all the heavy lifting - The CSA has had 100% of its army seiging Washington, while the Brits have 2 large armies, one seiging Montana and one up in Minnesota, both unopposed.

    So from Sep. 1850 on, I allow my guys to recover to full strength, and fan out, putting 1 or 2 brigades in each province. I try to add another state to my war goals, but notice how almost nothing west of the Miss. is shown here?


    The resaon, it turns out, is that these are considered "colonies", not "states" (which is bizarre, Oregon was a state far before Idaho, oh well). To get those, you have to do the "a place in the sun" war goal - I do so, and add Oregon, Wyoming, and Montana, in January-March 1851.

    Even with a maximal "fan-out" of my army to occupy as quickly as possible, by June 1851 I've only conquered up to, roughly, the Mississippi river, and have a war score of about +21 - the Union army has reconstituted, and by pulling my forces together I thrash it soundly in the battle of Champaign IL, but this turns out to be my last victory, as I am undone by my allies

    the first sign comes in July 1851, when I happen to notice that the CSA is demobilzing! WTF? I check the "Show wars" tab of the diplomacy pane, and note that....


    both the UK and the CSA are now at peace with the US! The nerve

    The UK got Montana out of the deal, while the CSA gets a "white peace", which lets them continue independent. This leaves me alone against the US, but that's ok, though they are rebuilding I am the master of the battlefield, but then....

    In October 1851, I get a notice that....



    The USCA is going to coming to my aid against "the United Kingdom". The United Kingdom?? Weren't they my ally just a minute ago?



    Yes, the next day I get notice from the UK that they have DOWed me - ouch!

    I decide that it just too much to take on the UK and the US singlehandedly, and so accept a peace with the US where they give up Idaho and Oregon in October 1851.

    So here we go - out with the old war, in with the new war! This is a 3-front war, as I have a southern land border (with Belize), a northern land border (with Canada), and a long coastline. Sigh.

    To do a bit of summarization - here are the top 8 great powers now:



    A few things to note here:
    • The USA loses it's South and it's West - and is still in 4th place! Say what?
    • Note how much worse my industry is than everyone elses, and what a huge industrial score Russia has

    Here's the geopolitical map now:

    1. the UK just snarfed up Montana, it got Washington via colonization
    2. I now have Idaho and Oregon
    3. The CSA lives!
    4. Belize - my southern land front in the new war.
    Last edited by badger_ken; 31-08-2010 at 04:26.

  20. #20
    Private aquinothomas's Avatar
    EU3 CompleteHearts of Iron IIIHeir to the ThroneVictoria: RevolutionsRome Gold
    Victoria 2

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    Send the Union gringos packing!

    Quote Originally Posted by badger_ken View Post
    Any kbitizing as to what my war goals/strategy should be are welcome. Presently my army roughly consists of
    • a reserve army of around 30K, guarding Mexico City/Veracruz
    • an army of around 45K in Texas
    • an army of around 30K in Colorado
    • an army of around 20K split around California/Idaho
    I'm gathering from another thread I started that V2 is much more of a "choose your own adventure" model than even EU3, so as long as we're we're talking fiction being far, far stranger than truth, here's a list of suggestions:
    • if there's any possibility to do so, try to get a military alliance with Great Britain before you take any action west of the Rockies
    • pump money into the CSA, since you have it, become their ally, and build up your forces west of Oklahoma
    • when the situation presents itself, support the CSA militarily, and box in the Union forces, but don't annihilate them
    • broker a deal with the UK to divide up the American west with the goal to eventually make it culturally Mexican. That will make it harder for England to try to back stab you
    • keep your laborers happy, and make central Mexico an industrial power house

    If you get that far, maybe Spanish will be the lingua franca of the modern world instead of English.

    “Nothing is more surprising than the easiness with which the many are governed by the few.” -- David Hume

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