Divergences - An AlterVicky mod

[Kinniken]

I tried it several times now, but Aragon, Burgundy and Boehmia are always named "Frankreich" (France)? Is it because I am using the german version of the game?

Yes, only the English version works fine now. I'll be doing the French one in the next update, but what German I remember from high school is definitely too little to do that one

You can do it if you want though, it's not hard: open localisation/0_changes.csv, for every line the German version is the third one. What you really need to change is only the country names and adjectives (39 lines). The rest is political party names, which matter a lot less.

If you do, please send me the updated file, I'll include it in the next release, thanks

[Kinniken]

Hm, I would change the name of Scandinavia. As a political term, Scandinavia came into being in our 19th century, and was primarily intended to replace the term 'Norden', as Norden had come to include Finland, which, for various reasons, were somewhat more problematic in 1810 than in 1710.
Here, however, the united Nordic state still has Finland, and, well, Scotland is in the North of Europe, but it isn't in Scandinavia...
Will there still be Danish, Swedish and Norwegian cultures? An argument could be made that after so many centuries of closer togetherness, they would in large be as united as North German. This would, admittedly, make Scandinavia a fair bit stronger...
Hm, it would seem that Norden/Scandinavia would have an interest in connecting its Baltic possessions, and Novgorod might not be able to stop an alt-Treaty of Stolbovo, nor reverse it as Russia did...
Er, a minor nitpick, irrelevant to the modern day of the mod but present in the description: there never was a political unit called the Kalmar Union. Many history books, even those from the region which said Union covered, make that mistake, but the Union of Kalmar was the unification of the three crowns, not the unified realm of the three crowns.

I know about the last part, maybe I wasn't clear enough in the initial post - in my world, the Union eventually evolved in a unified realm (like say England and Scotland into the UK), but it wasn't at the start either.

For the name, maybe I shouldn't use Scandinavia, but then what? Just "Danemark"? And I already have a "Dual Monarchy", I'm not going to call it the "Triple Crown" or something

For the cultures, currently they stand as in vanilla, with Danish the main one (used for colonies). I could merge them I suppose, not sold on that one. If I do it won't be to North German however, that would be strange. They'd be Dane-speakers, for a start.

Er, considering the Habsburgs got Austria before the point of divergence, how did they not get Austria here? Now, Bohemia, Austria, and all those other acquisitions, especially the marriage ones or the ones that flowed from the marriage ones, might be a different matter.

But they did get Austria (it still has the Habsburg flag). What they didn't get was everything else.

[Kinniken]

And for those interested, I tested it, the "POPDemand" mod seems to be working fine with mine, provided you install it first, then install mine on top. All you won't get are the rebalancing of the initial factories and POP sizes, as my mod will overwrite those, but they seem a fairly small part of that mod as far as I can tell.

[Orinsul]

i think for the Scandinavia thing he was proposing Norden for a name in the place of Scandinavia as it means North or something.

just a thought, for the Dual-Monarchy if its not a Monarchy, i.e. democratic revolutionaries take over
Union occidentale [Western Union]
its what i always used in EU for a GBR that required all the form GBR and form FRA cores. which is basically what yourve done here too.

[LordInsane]

I know about the last part, maybe I wasn't clear enough in the initial post - in my world, the Union eventually evolved in a unified realm (like say England and Scotland into the UK), but it wasn't at the start either.

But they did get Austria (it still has the Habsburg flag). What they didn't get was everything else.

Both of those were a comment on the description in the OP - it uses Kalmar Union as a term for the polity that developed into *Scandinavia, and mentions the Habsburgs not inheriting Austria. These bits:

The Hapsburgs never inherited Austria, and the HRE ended up dominated by Burgundy and the Kingdom of Bohemia.
The Kalmar Union evolved toward a unified Scandinavia, which controls the modern-day Baltic states and large parts of the German coast.

For the name, maybe I shouldn't use Scandinavia, but then what? Just "Danemark"? And I already have a "Dual Monarchy", I'm not going to call it the "Triple Crown" or something

For the cultures, currently they stand as in vanilla, with Danish the main one (used for colonies). I could merge them I suppose, not sold on that one. If I do it won't be to North German however, that would be strange. They'd be Dane-speakers, for a start.

Norden was the term used before Scandinavia came into common use, though there is the disadvantage that it has no proper English translation (it means something like the North, but is used for that region and that region alone), even if the adjective has one. It has the advantage of including Finland, however. Denmark... wouldn't work, Norway and Sweden would have problems with that (them not being Danes and all).

No, I meant North German as a comparison, as in 'the Scandinavian cultures could well be as united here as North German is in vanilla Vicky'. In other words, I wasn't suggesting you should merge them into any other pre-existing culture, but to merge them into a single new Scandinavian/Nordic/Norse culture. Which would give *Scandinavia more focus points. Er, perhaps I should clarify: I mean Scandinavian cultures as in the cultures whose Union tag is SCA, not the cultures present in *Scandinavia (would be rather silly to include Scottish, though Finnish might happen, I stress might).

It might be somewhat more accurate to call them Norse-speakers...

[Kinniken]

just a thought, for the Dual-Monarchy if its not a Monarchy, i.e. democratic revolutionaries take over
Union occidentale [Western Union]
its what i always used in EU for a GBR that required all the form GBR and form FRA cores. which is basically what yourve done here too.

Hmm, I do need a non-Monarchical name for the Dual Monarchy, but I'm not sold on your proposal - it works fine in French, but in English the association with the money-transfer company is rather unfortunate

[Kinniken]

Both of those were a comment on the description in the OP - it uses Kalmar Union as a term for the polity that developed into *Scandinavia, and mentions the Habsburgs not inheriting Austria.

For the first one, I don't see the issue - it started as a personal union, and evolved in a unified realm. The second is a blunder, nice catch. I wanted to put Hungary there.

Norden was the term used before Scandinavia came into common use, though there is the disadvantage that it has no proper English translation (it means something like the North, but is used for that region and that region alone), even if the adjective has one. It has the advantage of including Finland, however. Denmark... wouldn't work, Norway and Sweden would have problems with that (them not being Danes and all).

No, I meant North German as a comparison, as in 'the Scandinavian cultures could well be as united here as North German is in vanilla Vicky'. In other words, I wasn't suggesting you should merge them into any other pre-existing culture, but to merge them into a single new Scandinavian/Nordic/Norse culture. Which would give *Scandinavia more focus points. Er, perhaps I should clarify: I mean Scandinavian cultures as in the cultures whose Union tag is SCA, not the cultures present in *Scandinavia (would be rather silly to include Scottish, though Finnish might happen, I stress might).

It might be somewhat more accurate to call them Norse-speakers...

Ok, got it. I hadn't thought of it, but the focus-point issue is a good reason to unify those cultures. Scandinavia is a little weaker than I'd like right now. If I do I won't include the Finns though, that would be a step too far. I'll try it and see the gameplay impact.

For a new name I'm all ears. I think Scandinavia is ok, but if someone has a better proposal why not. Norden however I really don't like, it sounds too much like a geographic description, even more than Scandinavia.

BTW, for many of those decisions one of my big concern will be how they impact the development of events, and for that I need a decent sample of advanced games. I'm doing a lot of hands-off ones but it's not enough. Basically when people are playing, screenshots of how things evolves are welcomed.

Right now I'm feeling the Dual Monarchy is a bit too strong (it starts #1 and should normally be in the top 3 at the end, but I don't want it with double #2's score in 1900), Burgundy is fine, Scandinavia a little underpowered, Bohemia a bit too strong. Of course all that is with my internal idea of what they "should" evolve too, opinions might vary

[LordInsane]

For the first one, I don't see the issue - it started as a personal union, and evolved in a unified realm. The second is a blunder, nice catch. I wanted to put Hungary there.

The issue - I said this was nitpicky - is that the Kalmar Union wasn't the name for the personal union, but for establishment of the personal union.

For a new name I'm all ears. I think Scandinavia is ok, but if someone has a better proposal why not. Norden however I really don't like, it sounds too much like a geographic description, even more than Scandinavia.

Well, Norden is the OTL term, and the circumstances that led to its partial replacement by Scandinavia does not exist in your timeline. To that, I can add that Norden *is* used for a few organisations, especially in the adjective form (Nordic Council, for example). I suppose you could use Nordic X, where X might vary depending on the governmental form...

[LordInsane]

Hm, perhaps you should alter continents... it looks rather odd to have an Africa that includes Palestine, and there are some practical issues with Iceland and Greenland that could be solved by moving them to Europe.

[Kinniken]

Well, Norden is the OTL term, and the circumstances that led to its partial replacement by Scandinavia does not exist in your timeline. To that, I can add that Norden *is* used for a few organisations, especially in the adjective form (Nordic Council, for example). I suppose you could use Nordic X, where X might vary depending on the governmental form...

Nordic Kingdom? Nordic Republic? It sounds weird, I like Scandinavia better. Not ideal but it will have to do for now.

[Kinniken]

Hm, perhaps you should alter continents... it looks rather odd to have an Africa that includes Palestine, and there are some practical issues with Iceland and Greenland that could be solved by moving them to Europe.

It's certainly weird that Paradox chose to have Palestine in Africa, but what does it change in practice?

[LordInsane]

Nordic Kingdom? Nordic Republic? It sounds weird, I like Scandinavia better. Not ideal but it will have to do for now.

Nordic Union.
Possibly because, as opposed to the other geographical place-names, you aren't accustomed to it. There is Austria, for instance.

This is what happens when one has a people that is called and calls itself 'Men from/living in the North'. Bleedin' Norse and Europeans lacking imagination...

It's certainly weird that Paradox chose to have Palestine in Africa, but what does it change in practice?

The Palestine-Syria thing means that the Ottoman Africa-text will be smaller and not cover Palestine, and there will be an Ottoman Asia-text in Ottoman Asia.
Iceland and Greenland being in Europe means there won't be massive immigration to the two making the risk of Greenland having more people than Copenhagen practically non-existent rather than quite present.

[Kinniken]

Nordic Union.
Possibly because, as opposed to the other geographical place-names, you aren't accustomed to it. There is Austria, for instance.

Which might sound weird in German, but in English or French, the "öst" root is not really visible

The Palestine-Syria thing means that the Ottoman Africa-text will be smaller and not cover Palestine, and there will be an Ottoman Asia-text in Ottoman Asia.
Iceland and Greenland being in Europe means there won't be massive immigration to the two making the risk of Greenland having more people than Copenhagen practically non-existent rather than quite present.

Good point on "Ottoman Africa", though I'm not keen on the "Ottoman Asia" part, I always felt it looked weird. For Greenland maybe, I hadn't noticed that migration issue, but if it's there I can switch the continent, no problems.

[Orinsul]

if you move the ottoman capital to the province that is the anotolian side of the straight [which can be justified as the city is on both sides of the water, just] then instead of Ottoman Africa, you get Ottoman Empire
and instead of Ottoman Empire, Ottoman Europe

edit: just checked the province is Uskudar - PROV861

if youre wanting to have clearler ottoman map titles, thats a way to do that isnt too intrusive as its the same state and one province along.

[Kinniken]

Has anybody ever seen the AI annex China in vanilla? I didn't think it was possible, but...



I had nothing to do with it, this was an hands-off game. And China was strong before the war, it had re-annexed Manchu and expended in Central Asia and Burma too.

[Kinniken]

if you move the ottoman capital to the province that is the anotolian side of the straight [which can be justified as the city is on both sides of the water, just] then instead of Ottoman Africa, you get Ottoman Empire
and instead of Ottoman Empire, Ottoman Europe

edit: just checked the province is Uskudar - PROV861

if youre wanting to have clearler ottoman map titles, thats a way to do that isnt too intrusive as its the same state and one province along.

Except that the city is really on the European side, the Asian side just has some extended suburbs... I think I'll try switching Istanbul to Asia, that would be a more focused change - normally invisible except for the names on the map.

[Xcapos]

Has anybody ever seen the AI annex China in vanilla? I didn't think it was possible, but...


I had nothing to do with it, this was an hands-off game. And China was strong before the war, it had re-annexed Manchu and expended in Central Asia and Burma too.

Seen it happen a few times before

[Kinniken]

Who by? The UK? Anyway, that's good news, I was wondering if it was a sign the Dual Monarchy was really overpowered

[Xcapos]

Who by? The UK? Anyway, that's good news, I was wondering if it was a sign the Dual Monarchy was really overpowered

Always the UK yes. Although Russia should be able to do it as well.

If you don't want it to happen you can set a max number of states which can be annexed at once.

[Walshicus]

Love this mod.

"Dual Monarchy" sounds a bit unweildy. How about... United Crown of England and France? Also, Norden sounds fine in English too.